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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hugh on July 19, 2021, at 11:53:41
A wonderful documentary. Patients are given 40 mg of the beta-blocker propranolol immediately after undergoing exposure therapy for their phobias. It's told in four parts, each 14 minutes long.
A Little Closer | A Cure For Fear: Part 1
This episode deals with a man who has a spider phobia and with a woman who has a cat phobia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3G6kITdYk
Nighttime in Kabul | A Cure For Fear: Part 2
This episode deals with a man suffering from PTSD. Virtual reality therapy exposes him to his traumatic memories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NyrzpzLYAQ
You Did Your Very Best | A Cure For Fear: Part 3
This episode deals with some difficult-to-treat cases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aes3Wpvw-Gc
Self Treatment | A Cure For Fear: Part 4
In this episode, a therapist works to overcome her own snake phobia before she treats a patient who has a snake phobia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaGQWqkKjIo
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 3:34:26
In reply to A Cure for Fear, posted by Hugh on July 19, 2021, at 11:53:41
I took it for stage fright before school presentations. It blocked much of the physical manifestations of anxiety, which was ok, but it helped actual anxiety only partially. I was a bit slow, but I'm rather slow than visibly sh*tt*ng my pants infront of people.
Posted by Hugh on July 20, 2021, at 11:19:55
In reply to A Cure for Fear, posted by Hugh on July 19, 2021, at 11:53:41
This 60 Minutes report is about using propranolol to treat PTSD. In this study, patients were given 80 mg of propranolol just before they re-experienced their traumatic memories, either by talking about them or by writing in detail about them.
Part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhK0EX4G018&feature=related
Posted by jay2112 on July 21, 2021, at 21:55:33
In reply to A Cure for Fear, posted by Hugh on July 19, 2021, at 11:53:41
Hi Hugh:
I believe the research, and maybe it's because I have such bizarre reactions to meds (30+ years of this c*ap) but, I have a very deep insecurity, mostly from grief...aggravated grief. I lost a number of very close people to me, starting when I was 17, and my childhood best friend shot himself in the head. Then, my common-law girlfriend and child in a car accident. All of my family has passed, and in the past short while, was caring for my parents. My Mom died of a stroke one year (I watched her die) and my Dad the next year, of kidney failure. And...people don't understand the trauma...but I just recently lost my beautiful little dog, who was my *only* companion, and I held him in my hands as he was put down.
I live in poverty...now have extreme fear of the dark, and major agoraphobia. I am constantly scared...of everything and anything. Propranolol may sometimes calm me down a bit. But only a huge cocktail of very powerful benzos, and their me-too drugs like Lyrica and Neurontin, plus smaller doses of Effexor and Elavil, plus tiny doses of antipsychotics, AND daily doses of cannabis THC pills, and Vyvanse, make me functional, lose a bit of fear, and stop my endless flow of tears...or reduce the episodes of crying.
The only thing that has started to save me has been assigned a therapist/community counsellor, and group therapy. Otherwise, I would just let myself go, with neglect.
But, that is just me. It doesn't help that I am a weird mix of introvert, but crave sensitive human connection. I guess we all do though. I think I may also benefit from small doses of illicit/exotic drug taking, especially during therapy.
Sorry for going on...but I honestly think aggravated grief, and it's fears, is one of the most treatment resistant Dx's out there.
Jay
Posted by Hugh on July 22, 2021, at 12:41:53
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear » Hugh, posted by jay2112 on July 21, 2021, at 21:55:33
It sounds like you'd be a good candidate for MDMA therapy. The FDA is expected to approve it in the next year or two for PTSD. I hope it can also be prescribed for off-label purposes. Are you in Canada?
Posted by jay2112 on July 22, 2021, at 15:57:27
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear » jay2112, posted by Hugh on July 22, 2021, at 12:41:53
> It sounds like you'd be a good candidate for MDMA therapy. The FDA is expected to approve it in the next year or two for PTSD. I hope it can also be prescribed for off-label purposes. Are you in Canada?
I am sorry for outpouring in my last post. It was a really bad day.
But, yes, I am in Canada. And a bit lucky, as recreational drugs seem much more accepted. We legalized cannabis a few years ago, and in many of these shops you can also order psilocybin 'shrooms'. And, there is one Canuck company advertising on Facebook(!) micro-doses of psilocybin in the form of gummie-worms. It is a bit expensive, 60 bucks for 10 or so gummies, but obviously you'd just break them up into smaller pieces. I wonder if using it Rx style, like say one little piece everyday few days, or even day, would work?
But, I think you are also right about MDMA therapy. I wonder how it works with smaller-than-average doses? I tried Extacy many years ago, and it feels like a recent experiment I tried. (Well, a few, actually.)
One involved high doses of benzos, pregablin, and a medium singular dose of lexapro/cipralex. After work, I would feel all of the horrible, agitated darkness badly. So, I would take about 7mg's of clonazepam, 1200mg's of pregablin, and 15mg's of cipralex. It was effective in relaxation, but a bit too 'hazy' with the benzo. So, I tried taking a high dose of nortriptyline in the morning (with it's norepinephrine agonism) and then 30mg (yes, THAT much..lol) of Lexapro at night, every 2nd or 3rd day.
And, I felt a MAJOR bliss AND relaxation at night.
It was NOTHING like I have ever felt with psychiatric drugs. What seems to happen is that the super high dose of cipralex every 2 days 'blasts' the serotonin through the synapse, much like MDMA.So, that is just my experiment, but I'd love to hear your's and others. Traditional psychiatry, to me, is very, very passe...stuck in the 90's, with such a very extreme amount of failure. So, time to take it into our hands! Our bodies...our rights!
What are you experiences/experiments like?Thanks,
Jay
Posted by sigismund on July 22, 2021, at 16:02:32
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear » Hugh, posted by jay2112 on July 21, 2021, at 21:55:33
My experience with benzos has been that the more I take the more frightened I feel.....in general......just going to the supermarket, all the usual stuff. Which doesn't make it any easier to do without them.
In my 20s I could not believe there was no way out. There is something to be said for ordinary human unhappiness.
But where the greater malady is fix'd,
The lesser is scarce felt. Thou'ldst shun a bear;
But if thy flight lay toward the raging sea,
Thou'ldst meet the bear i' the mouth. When the
mind's free,
The body's delicate:
Posted by sigismund on July 22, 2021, at 16:07:22
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear, posted by sigismund on July 22, 2021, at 16:02:32
Marx said something like 'the only cure for mental pain is physical pain'. At the end of his life he learned Russian and then calculus to soothe his mind. I read that Dylan studies Arabic, probably for similar reasons.
Posted by jay2112 on July 22, 2021, at 23:53:51
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear, posted by sigismund on July 22, 2021, at 16:07:22
> Marx said something like 'the only cure for mental pain is physical pain'. At the end of his life he learned Russian and then calculus to soothe his mind. I read that Dylan studies Arabic, probably for similar reasons.
Hmmmm. Marx's quote, as well as learning calculus and Russian, possibly co-exist with the fact he lived in utter poverty and despair. I say so, because those were probably 'cognitive escapes', as I learn't in linguistics, to try to lift him out of the s*it he was living in. (And likely an evolutionary trait that tries to prevent us from drinking the kool aid too soon.) YMMV, of course..lol.
I don't quite agree with Karl, that physical pain being a mental cure-all. It's ironic that one cure for physical pain, opiates, is also a cure for mental pain. I do agree with him, in a sense, though, that we should be progressing towards a social utopia, instead of the dog-eat-dog, anti-intellectual dystopia we are living in.
Sorry for sounding so positive.
Jay
Posted by Hugh on July 23, 2021, at 12:10:57
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear » Hugh, posted by jay2112 on July 21, 2021, at 21:55:33
Therapists who use MDMA-assisted psychotherapy say that they can achieve in one 4-6 hour session what it normally takes years of talk therapy to achieve.
This 60 Minutes Australia report is about MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in San Francisco:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V6V_tGTTjc
An article about this treatment:
Posted by Hugh on July 24, 2021, at 14:06:34
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear, posted by Hugh on July 23, 2021, at 12:10:57
This article link in my previous post doesn't work. This one should:
> Therapists who use MDMA-assisted psychotherapy say that they can achieve in one 4-6 hour session what it normally takes years of talk therapy to achieve.
>
> This 60 Minutes Australia report is about MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in San Francisco:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V6V_tGTTjc
>
> An article about this treatment:
>
> https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/sarah-*b*-mdma-assisted-psychotherapy-saving-lives-ptsd-60-minutes/e8ff3591-649c-456b-a4a4-47180f152a8e
Posted by beckett2 on August 7, 2021, at 16:50:31
In reply to A Cure for Fear, posted by Hugh on July 19, 2021, at 11:53:41
Hugh, thank you. This was very good.
Posted by Hugh on August 8, 2021, at 14:04:24
In reply to Re: A Cure for Fear, posted by beckett2 on August 7, 2021, at 16:50:31
> Hugh, thank you. This was very good.
You're welcome. Propranolol is one of the beta-blockers I've tried for palpitations. I find atenolol quite a bit more effective for this purpose, but on one occasion, propranolol was very helpful. Over ten years ago, someone put me on the spot if front of a large group of people. I was caught off guard, and was tongue-tied. A woman I liked witnessed this incident, so I felt even more humiliated than I normally would have. This is the sort of thing I can ruminate about obsessively for weeks or months. But I had propranolol with me this time. I'd seen the 60 Minutes report about it, so I decided to see if it could help with my traumatic memory. It did. My ruminations about it faded away when the propranolol took effect, and I barely thought about it after that.
This is the end of the thread.
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