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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LOOPS on September 16, 2004, at 18:29:40
Hello -
I hate to say this, but I've been experimenting for a long time with tryptophan and also different brands of 5htp, and it seems that pharmaceutical grade 5htp has VERY different effects to 'normal' brands.
It seems with the pharmaceutical quality stuff, the effects don't 'conk out' after a couple of weeks. Also, there seems to be a stronger stimulation of norepinephrine-type response (in me) along with serotonin - I've tried a lot of brands and the same thing happens with 'lesser' brands - depression sets in again in a lethargic kind of way after about a week. Could be just me, but I've heard this from others as well. Could quality really differ that much??
Experiences appreciated.
BTW still going strong with taurine, and 'playing around' with a few other supplements as well, trying to maintain a balance and not get too manic or depressed (the secret, after all, is in the balance).
Loops
Posted by joebob on September 16, 2004, at 21:45:13
In reply to Pharmaceutical-grade 5htp - VERY DIFFERENT, posted by LOOPS on September 16, 2004, at 18:29:40
Posted by LOOPS on September 17, 2004, at 15:28:41
In reply to what brand is pharmaceutical grade? (nm), posted by joebob on September 16, 2004, at 21:45:13
I've got some Biosynergy capsules - 50mg and 100mg. They say they're pharmaceutical grade and are definitely the best ones so far I've tried - 50mg is enough for one dose for me - even that's too much sometimes.
Don't know of any others - maybe there are some out there though.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 19, 2004, at 9:56:39
In reply to Pharmaceutical-grade 5htp - VERY DIFFERENT, posted by LOOPS on September 16, 2004, at 18:29:40
> Hello -
>
> I hate to say this, but I've been experimenting for a long time with tryptophan and also different brands of 5htp, and it seems that pharmaceutical grade 5htp has VERY different effects to 'normal' brands.Why do you hate to say it? It's an important distinction, apparently.
> It seems with the pharmaceutical quality stuff, the effects don't 'conk out' after a couple of weeks. Also, there seems to be a stronger stimulation of norepinephrine-type response (in me) along with serotonin - I've tried a lot of brands and the same thing happens with 'lesser' brands - depression sets in again in a lethargic kind of way after about a week. Could be just me, but I've heard this from others as well. Could quality really differ that much??
Oh, absolutely. Typical 5-HTP supps are from an African herb, Griffonia. It's very hard to be certain that the 5-HTP content is as advertised on the label, or to know what other effects are associated with the herb itself.
A pharmaceutical product must meet very clearly defined purity standards. It only stands to reason that this standardization is important.
> Experiences appreciated.
>
> BTW still going strong with taurine, and 'playing around' with a few other supplements as well, trying to maintain a balance and not get too manic or depressed (the secret, after all, is in the balance).
>
> LoopsAbsolutely, finding a balance is key. But don't forget, balance isn't in maintaining a rigorous intake. It's in adapting intake to the moving target that you are as you interact with your environment.
Lar
Posted by joebob on September 19, 2004, at 22:30:56
In reply to brands -, posted by LOOPS on September 17, 2004, at 15:28:41
too much 5htp?
stimulated or tired or what?thanks
Posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 0:22:51
In reply to brands -, posted by LOOPS on September 17, 2004, at 15:28:41
> I've got some Biosynergy capsules - 50mg and 100mg. They say they're pharmaceutical grade and are definitely the best ones so far I've tried - 50mg is enough for one dose for me - even that's too much sometimes.
>
> Don't know of any others - maybe there are some out there though.
>
> Loops
Hi Loops,
Where do you get the Biosynergy 5-htp capsules? And if it doesn't come from Griffonia, how do they make it?Kara
Posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 10:33:37
In reply to what happen, i.e. how you know when you've had » LOOPS, posted by joebob on September 19, 2004, at 22:30:56
> too much 5htp?
> stimulated or tired or what?
>
> thanksdefinitely too tired and 'monged-out'. Also too much and I really feel antisocial - I find I get lost in my own little world and don't know how to 'break-the-ice' with people when I go out (my guess is this is due to too much serotonin and not enough norepinephrine/dopamine).
I once saw a simple diagram of this - a see-saw - on one side you have serotonin and the other dopamine.
With the biosynergy stuff, my experience is that I feel initially a little hyper (if I take 100mg - too much) and then very tired. 50mg is enough for me, because with that amount I can still function in the day - i.e. I am more sociable and more motivated. 100mg and the motivation dives a bit and the tiredness sets in.
My guess is dose would depend on how much extra serotonin you personally need. Also, I think even with something like 5htp, dose is maybe best titrated upwards gradually.
For sleep, I found 50mg 3x daily, plus ONLY 50mg at bed is the best for sleep. By the time I am in bed, the doses before have set up my brain for the night (more melatonin?? See-saw in favour of serotonin?? I don't know). 100mg at bed and I start having night-time hallucinations, which is not pleasant, especially when my husband's out of town for awhile.
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 10:40:14
In reply to Re: brands - » LOOPS, posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 0:22:51
> Where do you get the Biosynergy 5-htp capsules? And if it doesn't come from Griffonia, how do they make it?
>
> Kara
>
biosynergy.com or good4all.netAlso, oxitriptan (I think that's the name) is Italian-made pharmaceutical 5htp, from
xxx (nootropics site). I haven't tried these, but am going to when my biosynergy stash runs out.
I had the fastest shipping from good4all.net - I live in Chile so this was the best option.
>
BTW to cut the price of the biosynergy stuff - what I did was to buy the 100mg capsules and pour half into bit of water.
>
All of this 5htp is still made from griffonia simplificolia (spelling???) - so it's a bit dire other brands don't match up.Loops
Posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 13:53:20
In reply to brands, posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 10:40:14
>
> > Where do you get the Biosynergy 5-htp capsules? And if it doesn't come from Griffonia, how do they make it?
> >
> > Kara
> >
> biosynergy.com or good4all.net
>
> Also, oxitriptan (I think that's the name) is Italian-made pharmaceutical 5htp, from
>
> xxx (nootropics site). I haven't tried these, but am going to when my biosynergy stash runs out.
>
> I had the fastest shipping from good4all.net - I live in Chile so this was the best option.
> >
> BTW to cut the price of the biosynergy stuff - what I did was to buy the 100mg capsules and pour half into bit of water.
> >
> All of this 5htp is still made from griffonia simplificolia (spelling???) - so it's a bit dire other brands don't match up.
>
> Loops
>Thanks. I have visited the xxx site before but didn't know for sure if they were legit since I haven't been able to find out any information on them (from outside of their site). Do you know others who have ordered from them or have you tried anything else from them before? I think they're located in South Africa, aren't they?
Posted by joebob on September 20, 2004, at 16:25:08
In reply to Re: what happen, i.e. how you know when you've had, posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 10:33:37
as needed?
how do you know when you need it?
for dopamine have you tried n-acetyl l-tyrosine? see 'norival' from cardiovascular researh at emerson ecologicsjoebob
Posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 16:51:33
In reply to Re: brands » LOOPS, posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 13:53:20
yes,
I've ordered from xxx before, and they are legit.
I ordered hydergine and melatonin from them before. Hydergine is good for dopamine - I use it sometimes before long composition sessions - really gets my brain working.
I'm not much of a fan of tyrosine I'm afraid - it just makes me angry and anxious. I have too much adrenaline normally. I only really take it these days on hangovers (although trying to whittle those down as well!) when all levels of neurotransmitters are down.
I always take the 5htp now. 50mg four times a day. I also take ~60mg of zinc and a PVP B6 complex, as well as taurine and lithium orotate and half B complex tab at bedtime.
Loops
Posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 18:21:44
In reply to Re: brands, posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 16:51:33
> yes,
>
> I've ordered from xxx before, and they are legit.
>
> I ordered hydergine and melatonin from them before. Hydergine is good for dopamine - I use it sometimes before long composition sessions - really gets my brain working.
>
> I'm not much of a fan of tyrosine I'm afraid - it just makes me angry and anxious. I have too much adrenaline normally. I only really take it these days on hangovers (although trying to whittle those down as well!) when all levels of neurotransmitters are down.
>
> I always take the 5htp now. 50mg four times a day. I also take ~60mg of zinc and a PVP B6 complex, as well as taurine and lithium orotate and half B complex tab at bedtime.
>
> LoopsWhat is PVP - P5P? Doesn't B complex keep you awake at night?
I'd like to try hydergine someday. I was thinking that I'd like to stay on either that, Picamilon or Ginkgo for getting blood flow to the brain. I was planning on rotating them.
I'm reevaluating a lot of my plans lately though as my anergic depression has suddenly turned into a very anxious depression. Always trying to hit a running target I guess...
Kara
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2004, at 8:20:02
In reply to brands, posted by LOOPS on September 20, 2004, at 10:40:14
> oxitriptan (I think that's the name) is Italian-made pharmaceutical 5htp, from
>
> xxx (nootropics site).Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription or medication that hasn't been approved by the FDA. Even if those aren't the medications that you're posting about.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by LOOPS on September 21, 2004, at 10:19:43
In reply to Re: brands » LOOPS, posted by karaS on September 20, 2004, at 18:21:44
yeah,
sorry, I meant P5P. As for the B complex, I find that when mixed with other things at bed, it actually helps with getting deep sleep. I avoid taking it in day as it makes me anxious. However taking B1, B2 and B6 does not. I think it might be the B3 and B12 raising histamine (??) - I have eczema and asthma and noticed this gets worse when I take a lot of B complex.
The good 5htp has done a lot to calm me down, but is not complete without lithium orotate and taurine.
I hope you find something to calm you down soon - I hate anxiety, it's the worst.
Loops
Posted by karaS on September 21, 2004, at 12:55:35
In reply to Re: brands, posted by LOOPS on September 21, 2004, at 10:19:43
> yeah,
>
> sorry, I meant P5P. As for the B complex, I find that when mixed with other things at bed, it actually helps with getting deep sleep. I avoid taking it in day as it makes me anxious. However taking B1, B2 and B6 does not. I think it might be the B3 and B12 raising histamine (??) - I have eczema and asthma and noticed this gets worse when I take a lot of B complex.
>
> The good 5htp has done a lot to calm me down, but is not complete without lithium orotate and taurine.
>
> I hope you find something to calm you down soon - I hate anxiety, it's the worst.
>
> Loops
Thanks. I needed a little anxiety to get me going but what I've gotten lately is more than I bargained for!K
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