![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:36:08
My doctor suggested I try niacin to lower my high cholestrol. I took 500 mg a couple nights ago and couldn't sleep a wink. I took my trazodone with a little melatonin and a valerian root mixture. Usually this will knock me out, but I was up all night. I had a beer and when that didn't work either I had some shots of vodka.
I remember talking with Larry about NADH and how it only worked for a couple days. I remember now that I was taking niacin at that time but stopped because of the flush. I have read that the no-flush niacin does nothing for cholesterol and the time release stuff may be bad for you liver.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Rick
Posted by linkadge on November 18, 2004, at 20:48:49
In reply to Why does niacin make me wired?, posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:36:08
I had the *EXACT* same symptoms when combining Niacin with my SSRI. I believe it is a serotogenic side effec from the combination of niacin and a serotonin med. (just speculation)
Linkadge
Posted by jasmineneroli on November 19, 2004, at 0:49:48
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired?, posted by linkadge on November 18, 2004, at 20:48:49
Niacin also has the effect of dilating blood vessels, even the tiny peripheral ones in your skin. So it may be bringing anything you are ingesting (caffeine for eg) into your brain very efficiently, not to mention oxygen.
Jas
Posted by raybakes on November 23, 2004, at 8:58:38
In reply to Why does niacin make me wired?, posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:36:08
> My doctor suggested I try niacin to lower my high cholestrol. I took 500 mg a couple nights ago and couldn't sleep a wink. I took my trazodone with a little melatonin and a valerian root mixture. Usually this will knock me out, but I was up all night. I had a beer and when that didn't work either I had some shots of vodka.
>
> I remember talking with Larry about NADH and how it only worked for a couple days. I remember now that I was taking niacin at that time but stopped because of the flush. I have read that the no-flush niacin does nothing for cholesterol and the time release stuff may be bad for you liver.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>Hi Rick,
Came across this theory on niacin toxicity
'Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy.'
"It is proposed that this hepatotoxicity reflects the high demand for methyl groups imposed by niacin catabolism, leading to a reduction in hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine"
As homocysteine is excitotoxic, if this theory is correct, then you might feel wired.
Ray
Posted by davidm on November 23, 2004, at 11:35:53
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by raybakes on November 23, 2004, at 8:58:38
Hello Raybakes,
It might be an intolerance to it. For some reason calcium does the same thing to me. And if i keep taking it for a few days, it turns into unbelievable hyperness and agitation. The metabolic compexity in all of us is so unique.You might want to look into Ginger or Beta Glucan 1,3-1,6 for lowering cholesterol. Look on the internet for information. You might have to give in to medications. My roomate is a careful eater and works out and has had to give in to medications.
David M
> > My doctor suggested I try niacin to lower my high cholestrol. I took 500 mg a couple nights ago and couldn't sleep a wink. I took my trazodone with a little melatonin and a valerian root mixture. Usually this will knock me out, but I was up all night. I had a beer and when that didn't work either I had some shots of vodka.
> >
> > I remember talking with Larry about NADH and how it only worked for a couple days. I remember now that I was taking niacin at that time but stopped because of the flush. I have read that the no-flush niacin does nothing for cholesterol and the time release stuff may be bad for you liver.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rick
> >
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> Came across this theory on niacin toxicity
>
> 'Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy.'
>
> "It is proposed that this hepatotoxicity reflects the high demand for methyl groups imposed by niacin catabolism, leading to a reduction in hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine"
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10985907
>
> As homocysteine is excitotoxic, if this theory is correct, then you might feel wired.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
Posted by gromit on November 23, 2004, at 19:39:47
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by raybakes on November 23, 2004, at 8:58:38
> 'Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy.'
I used to take Homocysteine Formula from GNC, but they stopped selling it. It was TMG plus some B vitamins. No plain betaine either. Will have to get some online I guess. What does equimolar mean?
> As homocysteine is excitotoxic, if this theory is correct, then you might feel wired.Damn, why is it everything that gives me some energy does bad stuff or poops out almost immediately.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by gromit on November 24, 2004, at 2:03:44
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by davidm on November 23, 2004, at 11:35:53
> It might be an intolerance to it. For some reason calcium does the same thing to me. And if i keep taking it for a few days, it turns into unbelievable hyperness and agitation. The metabolic compexity in all of us is so unique.
When I said it made me wired, for me this is usually a good thing, I have little energy most of the time. It was just that it was night time and I needed some sleep.
> You might want to look into Ginger or Beta Glucan 1,3-1,6 for lowering cholesterol. Look on the internet for information. You might have to give in to medications. My roomate is a careful eater and works out and has had to give in to medications.
Thank you, I will check these out. If I end up having to take meds so be it, but I would like to avoid that or at least minimize the dose.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by jujube on November 24, 2004, at 8:13:32
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired?, posted by gromit on November 24, 2004, at 2:03:44
Rick,
Other things you may want to look into are odorless garlic capsules, since garlic is said to lower cholesterol, as well as Co-enzyme Q10, which is said to raise HDLs (good cholesterol) and protect LDLs from oxidation and lower elevated serum cholesterol.
Tamara
Posted by gromit on November 24, 2004, at 13:12:26
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by jujube on November 24, 2004, at 8:13:32
> Other things you may want to look into are odorless garlic capsules, since garlic is said to lower cholesterol, as well as Co-enzyme Q10, which is said to raise HDLs (good cholesterol) and protect LDLs from oxidation and lower elevated serum cholesterol.
I have been taking CoQ10 hoping for some energy. I didn't know it could raise HDL, maybe I should up my dose and see what happens. I should get some garlic capsules, the pills I have claim to be odorless but I could barely choke them down. Usually this isn't a problem, I take pills by the handful and it really freaks my wife out ;)
Thanks
Rick
Posted by raybakes on November 25, 2004, at 5:36:57
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » jujube, posted by gromit on November 24, 2004, at 13:12:26
>
> I have been taking CoQ10 hoping for some energy. I didn't know it could raise HDL, maybe I should up my dose and see what happens. I should get some garlic capsules, the pills I have claim to be odorless but I could barely choke them down. Usually this isn't a problem, I take pills by the handful and it really freaks my wife out ;)
Hi Rick,
Just wanted to mention that cholesterol problems are related to syndrome x (insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, atherosclerosis). All the things metioned so far are good for syndome x and I feel cholesterol is an indicator for this syndrome, rather than a problem in itself (ie a problem, but only as part of a larger picture) - to lower cholesterol without looking at all the other factors simultaneously might not be doing your body justice.
I would regard syndrome x as an inflammatory condition (diet, poor fats, infection) that desensitizes the body to insulin - the body compensates by raising insulin, and insulin also raises cholesterol. Insulin resistance also raises homocysteine, something you suggested might be a problem by talking about niacin intolerance.
Diagnosing and treating metabolic syndrome.
Kutschman RF, Hadley S.
Intensive Care Unit, Naval Hospital Guam.
Recent studies have shown that approximately 22% of adults in the United States have metabolic syndrome, a loosely defined clustering of cardiovascular risk factors, including abdominal obesity, hypertriglyceridemia, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), hypertension, and insulin resistance. With this syndrome looming as one of the most prevalent diseases of mankind (as well as one of the most preventable), it is imperative that practitioners have a thorough understanding of this condition so that they can effectively diagnose and appropriately manage it in their practices.
If you think any of this might apply to you it might be a good idea to get some insulin/blood sugar/homocysteine tests done.Ray
found this on hawthorn....
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 25, 2004, at 10:41:56
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by gromit on November 23, 2004, at 19:39:47
> > 'Co-administration of equimolar doses of betaine may alleviate the hepatotoxic risk associated with niacin therapy.'
>
> I used to take Homocysteine Formula from GNC, but they stopped selling it. It was TMG plus some B vitamins. No plain betaine either. Will have to get some online I guess. What does equimolar mean?In the simplest terms, equimolar would be molecule for molecule. For every niacin molecule, you need one betaine molecule.
They have nearly identical molecular weights, so you take an equal number of mg of each one.
Lar
Posted by gromit on November 26, 2004, at 3:03:34
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by raybakes on November 25, 2004, at 5:36:57
> I would regard syndrome x as an inflammatory condition (diet, poor fats, infection) that desensitizes the body to insulin - the body compensates by raising insulin, and insulin also raises cholesterol. Insulin resistance also raises homocysteine, something you suggested might be a problem by talking about niacin intolerance.
I remember reading something about this, took me a while to remember exactly what. What do you think of this? http://www.cbass.com/Inflammation.htm
> Recent studies have shown that approximately 22% of adults in the United States have metabolic syndrome, a loosely defined clustering of cardiovascular risk factors, including abdominal obesity, hypertriglyceridemia, low levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), hypertension, and insulin resistance. With this syndrome looming as one of the most prevalent diseases of mankind (as well as one of the most preventable), it is imperative that practitioners have a thorough understanding of this condition so that they can effectively diagnose and appropriately manage it in their practices.Well I have alot of these risk factors, I'm not extremely overweight, maybe 20 lbs. or so. Most of this is abdominal fat.
> If you think any of this might apply to you it might be a good idea to get some insulin/blood sugar/homocysteine tests done.
My insulin and sugar levels were fine I don't think they checked homocystein. A short story, my wife and I had been trying to have a baby for a few years without success. We eventually went to a very smart fertility Dr. who was convinced my wife was insulin resistant. She took several tests and everything was normal, so he suggested she eat a piece of bread before the next test. Bingo, her sugar was fine but insulin was off the chart. She started Glucophage and Actos, six months later she was pregnant. This guy was sharp, he diagnosed her just from taking her history, I wish he were my Dr.
Thanks, you can never have too many bullets.
Rick
Posted by gromit on November 26, 2004, at 3:06:37
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by Larry Hoover on November 25, 2004, at 10:41:56
Posted by raybakes on November 26, 2004, at 7:10:18
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by gromit on November 26, 2004, at 3:03:34
> I remember reading something about this, took me a while to remember exactly what. What do you think of this? http://www.cbass.com/Inflammation.htm
Rick, think that's an excellent article!this abstract on a mediterranean diet gives some good markers - c reactive protein was mentioned in your article.
Ray
Posted by jujube on November 26, 2004, at 17:51:04
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » gromit, posted by raybakes on November 26, 2004, at 7:10:18
>
> > I remember reading something about this, took me a while to remember exactly what. What do you think of this? http://www.cbass.com/Inflammation.htm
>
> Rick, think that's an excellent article!
>
> this abstract on a mediterranean diet gives some good markers - c reactive protein was mentioned in your article.
>
> Ray
I just read in a women's magazine I sometimes read that Texas' Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research data reveal that Co-enzyme Q10 lowers levels of c-reactive protein by an impressive 30%. Unfortunately, I can not find the study or related material on the web (however, I am not the greatest at web searches).Tamara
Posted by gromit on November 27, 2004, at 1:43:15
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by jujube on November 26, 2004, at 17:51:04
> I just read in a women's magazine I sometimes read that Texas' Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research data reveal that Co-enzyme Q10 lowers levels of c-reactive protein by an impressive 30%. Unfortunately, I can not find the study or related material on the web (however, I am not the greatest at web searches).
Yet another reason to take CoQ10, but it still isn't clear to me if this is something you need to control or if it is more of an indicator of other problems.
It used to be you would have a hard time finding anything when the "WWW" started to develop, anybody else remember gopher? Now it's the opposite, you either have to wade thru piles of junk to find what you need, or come up with more specific searches. I guess that's a better problem to have though.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by raybakes on November 27, 2004, at 5:26:44
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by jujube on November 26, 2004, at 17:51:04
>
>
> I just read in a women's magazine I sometimes read that Texas' Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research data reveal that Co-enzyme Q10 lowers levels of c-reactive protein by an impressive 30%. Unfortunately, I can not find the study or related material on the web (however, I am not the greatest at web searches).
>
> Tamarahttp://www.vrp.com/breakingnews/1010481.html?c=1099741307212&k=/breakingnews
This article confirms what you say Tamara. The way I see CoQ10 working is by improving energy production and lowering free radicals. When a cell starts to fatigue parts of it break down and the immune system tries to destroy it. The body is always trying to repair itself but when the damage exceeds the ability to repair, the mopping up process can be extemely destructive, and cause even more damage! CoQ10 is only one of many things that help with energy production that may prolong the life of the cell and reduce the suicide (apoptosis) of fatigued cells.Anyone got any other ideas why CoQ10 might work in reducing CRP?
Ray
Posted by jujube on November 27, 2004, at 16:39:56
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » jujube, posted by gromit on November 27, 2004, at 1:43:15
Rick,
I don't know if this helps, but I believe that higher levels of C-reactive protein are risk factor for heart disease. So, lowering levels of c-reactive, I believe, would be a preventive measure.
Tamara
Posted by gromit on November 28, 2004, at 2:49:00
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by jujube on November 26, 2004, at 17:51:04
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2004, at 9:14:47
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » raybakes, posted by jujube on November 26, 2004, at 17:51:04
> I just read in a women's magazine I sometimes read that Texas' Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research data reveal that Co-enzyme Q10 lowers levels of c-reactive protein by an impressive 30%. Unfortunately, I can not find the study or related material on the web (however, I am not the greatest at web searches).
>
> TamaraFirst hit: http://www.raysahelian.com/heartdisease.html
Here's a search tip. Google searches on strings. A string is simply the sequence of keystrokes. When we type, we sequence the keystrokes to create words. If we create the wrong sequence, we don't have words any more, but they are probably more unique because of that. What you want to do is to try and think of strings, or sequences of keystrokes, that are rare.
Here are the strings in my search: CoQ10 CRP
Google is insensitive to case (capitals/small letters), but my brain still is more comfortable using them. The first string has letters and numbers not separated by any spaces. The second string is three consonants with no vowels. That makes them rare, and Google finds fewer unrelated instances of them.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2004, at 9:15:54
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » jujube, posted by raybakes on November 27, 2004, at 5:26:44
> Anyone got any other ideas why CoQ10 might work in reducing CRP?
>
> RayOxidative stress inhibitor.
Lar
Posted by jujube on December 10, 2004, at 9:57:01
In reply to Re: Why does niacin make me wired? » jujube, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2004, at 9:14:47
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.