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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 6:44:21
sorry, getting carried away!
'The presence of high levels of interleukin-6 in states characterized by fatigue or somnolence, such as glucocorticoid deficiency [26], rheumatoid arthritis [59,63], and disorders of excessive daytime sleepiness [104]; the marked correlation of interleukin-6 with exercise-induced exhaustion (Papanicolaou DA, Singh A, Gold PW, Deuster PA, Chrousos GP. Exercise-induced fatigue correlates with plasma interleukin-6 [IL-6] levels in normal women. Presented at the Third International Congress of the International Society for Neuroimmunomodulation, 15 November 1996, Washington, DC); and the ability of interleukin-6 to cause fatigue [20,21] suggest that it may be a fatigue-mediating factor whose suppression or neutralization may help alleviate these symptoms when necessary. Humanized neutralizing anti-interleukin-6 antibodies or interleukin-6 receptor antagonists may be particularly helpful in rehabilitating patients with rheumatic diseases and debilitating fatigue [61].
A recent study [105] provided indirect evidence that interleukin-6 may be involved in the pathogenesis of myocardial infarction. Specifically, men who had elevated baseline levels of C-reactive protein, a surrogate for interleukin-6 action [106], were at greater risk for myocardial infarction than men who had normal levels of C-reactive protein. In addition, marked gliosis occurs in the brains of transgenic animals in which interleukin-6 is overexpressed in the central nervous system [45]; this indicates that this cytokine may participate in the neurodegeneration and gliosis seen in such conditions as AIDS encephalopathy [107,108] and Alzheimer disease [109,110]. Thus, potential suppressants of interleukin-6 secretion or interleukin-6 antagonists might be a promising adjuvant therapy for such states.
The ability of interleukin-6 to stimulate secretion of corticotropin-releasing hormone in a dose-dependent manner suggests that this cytokine could be used for the differential diagnosis of disorders associated with abnormalities of the corticotropin-releasing hormone neuron. Thus, an interleukin-6 stimulation test could be useful in differentiating between the Cushing syndrome and pseudo-Cushing syndrome states (such as the combination of obesity and melancholic depression or chronic active alcoholism and the alcohol withdrawal syndrome) and between atypical and melancholic depression. Such a differentiation would be based on the fact that the corticotropin-releasing hormone neuron is chronically suppressed in the Cushing syndrome and chronically activated in pseudo-Cushing syndrome states [111]. In addition, melancholic depression and atypical depression are on opposite sides of the spectrum in terms of activity of the corticotropin-releasing hormone neuron [112-115].'
http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/128/2/127
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2004, at 10:40:10
In reply to fatigue and interleukin 6, posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 6:44:21
Have you discovered an intervention which addresses/ameliorates excessive IL-6?
Lar
Posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 10:56:34
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » raybakes, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2004, at 10:40:10
> Have you discovered an intervention which addresses/ameliorates excessive IL-6?
>
> LarHi Lar, this from the previous thread...
'Epimedium (horny goat weed i think?) can inhibit the expression of IL-6 mRNA, which may contribute to its anti-resorptive effect.'
ray
Posted by tealady on November 29, 2004, at 16:39:58
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » Larry Hoover, posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 10:56:34
Thansk Ray,
Well too much IL-6 does sound like a problem I have then I guess :-) I even have the oesteoporisis tendencies.
Thanks for the tip.
What brand did you use?( so I can see what all the ingredients are).Anything else tha reduces this IL-6..or slows is formation as this does?
Is this the one you tested as having a problem with..or was it IL-1? (sorry poor memory)
Jan
Posted by raybakes on November 30, 2004, at 3:44:07
In reply to Thanks Ray IL-6, posted by tealady on November 29, 2004, at 16:39:58
> Thansk Ray,
> Well too much IL-6 does sound like a problem I have then I guess :-) I even have the oesteoporisis tendencies.
> Thanks for the tip.
> What brand did you use?( so I can see what all the ingredients are).Planetary formulas is the brand I used, the only down side for women is that it might reduce estradiol - for men estradiol reduction means they can maintain their testosterone levels. Found some research on IL-6 causing low T3 syndrome...
'Induced illness in interleukin-6 (IL-6) knock-out mice: a causal role of IL-6 in the development of the low 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine syndrome.'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8940342&dopt=Abstract
>
> Anything else tha reduces this IL-6..or slows is formation as this does?the retinoic acid form of vitamin A I believe..
>
> Is this the one you tested as having a problem with..or was it IL-1? (sorry poor memory)It was IL-1 but IL-6 seems to be triggered by IL-1
Good luck!
Ray
Posted by Mistermindmasta on November 30, 2004, at 8:54:25
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » Larry Hoover, posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 10:56:34
> > Have you discovered an intervention which addresses/ameliorates excessive IL-6?
> >
> > Lar
>
> Hi Lar, this from the previous thread...
>
> 'Epimedium (horny goat weed i think?) can inhibit the expression of IL-6 mRNA, which may contribute to its anti-resorptive effect.'
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11286030&dopt=Abstract
>
> ray
>
>
>
>
St. John's Wort also antagonises the effects of IL-6.
Posted by TenMan on November 30, 2004, at 10:25:37
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6, posted by Mistermindmasta on November 30, 2004, at 8:54:25
\
> St. John's Wort also antagonises the effects of IL-6.
I was just about to post the same thing on my St. Johns Wort question thread to Larry.I found this study last night along with an older one.
I can't tell it the study implies the doses needed for this is very large or if a normal dose will do the trick. Maybe you can have a look?
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 30, 2004, at 12:11:51
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6, posted by TenMan on November 30, 2004, at 10:25:37
> \
> > St. John's Wort also antagonises the effects of IL-6.
>
>
> I was just about to post the same thing on my St. Johns Wort question thread to Larry.
>
> I found this study last night along with an older one.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15303261
>
> I can't tell it the study implies the doses needed for this is very large or if a normal dose will do the trick. Maybe you can have a look?I'm a little surprised that an inhibitor that is active at picomolar concentrations does not have activity at normal physiological concentration as from typical treatment doses.
From looking at the history of this research team, they've shown that IL-6 release is inhibited by SJW extracts in vitro, and they further narrowed that activity down to the hyperforin content. It does no look like they've shown that IL-6 will actually be inhibited from normal oral dosing. It's pretty strongly suggestive, though.
Lar
Posted by gromit on December 1, 2004, at 1:46:08
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » Larry Hoover, posted by raybakes on November 29, 2004, at 10:56:34
> 'Epimedium (horny goat weed i think?) can inhibit the expression of IL-6 mRNA, which may contribute to its anti-resorptive effect.'
Just as an aside, has anybody here actually had an increase in libido with this stuff? It did nothing for me. What are some other natural things that might help?
Thanks
Rick
Posted by raybakes on December 1, 2004, at 12:36:23
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6, posted by gromit on December 1, 2004, at 1:46:08
> > 'Epimedium (horny goat weed i think?) can inhibit the expression of IL-6 mRNA, which may contribute to its anti-resorptive effect.'
>
> Just as an aside, has anybody here actually had an increase in libido with this stuff? It did nothing for me. What are some other natural things that might help?
>
>Hi Rick,
Might be interesting to take it for a month or so - with hawthorn - to see what happens to your HDL.
Ray
Posted by Mistermindmasta on December 1, 2004, at 14:06:06
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » TenMan, posted by Larry Hoover on November 30, 2004, at 12:11:51
> > \
> > > St. John's Wort also antagonises the effects of IL-6.
> >
> >
> > I was just about to post the same thing on my St. Johns Wort question thread to Larry.
> >
> > I found this study last night along with an older one.
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15303261
> >
> > I can't tell it the study implies the doses needed for this is very large or if a normal dose will do the trick. Maybe you can have a look?
>
> I'm a little surprised that an inhibitor that is active at picomolar concentrations does not have activity at normal physiological concentration as from typical treatment doses.
>
> From looking at the history of this research team, they've shown that IL-6 release is inhibited by SJW extracts in vitro, and they further narrowed that activity down to the hyperforin content. It does no look like they've shown that IL-6 will actually be inhibited from normal oral dosing. It's pretty strongly suggestive, though.
>
> Lar
>Yeah, it's hard to say. One other thing that I wanted to point out is that as I recall, SJW seemed especially useful for the physical illness part of depression, as opposed to just the mental symptoms. I believe this is called a Somatoform Disorder. Maybe the reason (purely speculation) that STW seems to be good for Somatoform Disorder is because of the interleukin relationship.
From the Merck Manual about Somatoform disorders: "A group of psychiatric disorders characterized by physical symptoms that suggest but are not fully explained by a physical disorder and that cause significant distress or interfere with social, occupational, or other functioning."
The following study is titled:
St John's wort extract (LI 160) in somatoform disorders: results of a placebo-controlled trial.
Volz HP, Murck H, Kasper S, Moller HJ.
Psychiatric Department, University of Jena, Philosophenweg 3, 07740 Jena, Germany, volz
Here's the conlusion:
"CONCLUSION. The data from this trial show excellent efficacy and tolerability for LI 160 in somatoform disorders. The efficacy is independent of an existing depressive mood. This is the first study showing the efficacy of a drug in patients with somatisation disorder independent of depressive symptomatology."
Yeah, so what I get out of this is that SJW is good for sickness association with depression. I think we're on the right track here...
Posted by gromit on December 2, 2004, at 0:21:04
In reply to Re: fatigue and interleukin 6 » gromit, posted by raybakes on December 1, 2004, at 12:36:23
> Might be interesting to take it for a month or so - with hawthorn - to see what happens to your HDL.
I will try this in the future, I'm already taking niacin and a couple things containing plant sterols and stanols. I don't want to start too many things at the same time cause I won't be able to tell what is doing what.
Thanks
Rick
This is the end of the thread.
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