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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sabre on November 29, 2004, at 1:47:21
Hi
I have been taking tyrosine for over three weeks now and I'm still getting an anti panic effect however in that time I have also developed very sensitive muscle triggers that are aggravated by sport and work. It seems to be gradually becoming worse.I have read that muscle triggers can be aggravated by vit and neurotransmitter deficiencies, esp GABA. Any ideas about what is happening?
If you take one supplement like tyrosine that increases neurotransmitters like dopamine and NA, does this cause an imbalance eg a relative deficiency of serotonin or GABA?
Thanks
sabre
Posted by tealady on November 29, 2004, at 2:13:14
In reply to muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by sabre on November 29, 2004, at 1:47:21
What do you mean by a muscle trigger?
..muscle twitches?, pain like fibromyalgia?, tight muscles that don't relax?
Jan
Posted by sabre on November 29, 2004, at 23:28:33
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine » sabre, posted by tealady on November 29, 2004, at 2:13:14
Hi tealady
All muscles have hyperexcitable areas or foci. The trigger points of the body have been mapped out and there are manuals showing where they are, e.g. "Travell & Simons' Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual (2-Volume Set)".
Massage therapists and accupuncturists know them well. If a trigger point gets too irritable, it can refer pain into a characteristic area of the body. In fibromyalgia, the myofascia can be affected throughout the body and can be felt as taut bands and 'knots' or trigger points in the muscle. People who work long hours in front of computers can develop hyperirritable triggers in their shoulders, necks and scalps. Triggers in the neck musculature can cause dizziness, headaches and nausea.Apparently deficiencies of vit C, magnesium and muscle overuse and fatigue, stress etc can aggravate and perpetuate irritation of triggers.
What I was curious about was did anyone have problems with triggers while using Tyrosine. I'm waiting on some Picamilon and theanine as I think GABA works to calm the CNS down - as opposed to glutamate. I'm hoping it will be the 'fat controller' that is the answer to everything ...anxiety, esp the social variety and muscle tension, trigger overactivity etc.
Maybe that is too simplistic but I'm hoping. If the GABA shows any efficacy than I'll go down the neurontin path...unless of course the supplements are sufficient.
sabre
Posted by tealady on November 30, 2004, at 2:04:34
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by sabre on November 29, 2004, at 23:28:33
Thanks for explaining Sabre.
I understand now. I've had a bit of accupuncture and some tense neck muscles during migraines too.
No I haven't had any when using tyrosine. Do you take a good P5P B6 say at breakfast when you take tyrosine? Not at the same time.
Something like the "Now" brand which has some magnesium mixed with an enteric coated P5P.
I've read the deficiency may be P5P after you take tyrosine for a while. Just a thought.Jan
Posted by jasmineneroli on November 30, 2004, at 20:12:09
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by tealady on November 30, 2004, at 2:04:34
You might be right about the GABA-muscle trigger connection.
If Restless Leg syndrome etc., have similar pathology to the condition you describe, GABA may well work. A very successful drug for treating RLS is Klonopin, which like most benzos affects GABA.
Jas
Posted by sabre on November 30, 2004, at 23:46:03
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by tealady on November 30, 2004, at 2:04:34
Jan, is P5P vitamin B6? I have been taking one B complex per day. It has 50mg of B6 in it. Is this enough? I really like the effect of the tyrosine but is not enough.
I have taken magnesium on and off but found it rough on the gut, which makes me wonder whether more is being lost than is gained by taking it!Jas, benzos seemed to be useful but because drs here will only prescribe them for 4 weeks, I have made sure I never got dependent on them. Then again, when I asked the GP about Neurontin she wouldn't even consider it.
I would like to work out which drugs would have a better chance of helping by playing around with supplements first. Hopefully they will be the answer by themselves. But I really doubt it.I have not taken any beta blockers for about three weeks and I'm starting to feel generally tired and losing some weight (don't need to). Tyrosine stops the anxiety escalating to panic but I still feel on the verge of it and the social anxiety is relentless. I know all the panic and anxiety self-help gurus spout on about facing the fear and going with it etc but it just doesn't seem to work and it is exhausting trying.
sabre
Posted by tealady on December 1, 2004, at 14:15:52
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by sabre on November 30, 2004, at 23:46:03
> Jan, is P5P vitamin B6? I have been taking one B complex per day. It has 50mg of B6 in it. Is this enough? I really like the effect of the tyrosine but is not enough.
50mg B6 is more than enough usually. The problem is females especially tend not to be able to absorb B6. P5P when enteric coated is absorbed form the intestines..and P5P is already on the correct form and it does make a difference in how I feel.
The pill does smething to slow B6 absorption from the stomach apparently. females over 40ish tend to not absorb B6 well for some reason.
You only need say 15mg to 25mg of P5P a day..but 50mg P5P is in the "Now brand" ..and it doesn't seem too much for me. I've run out at present.> I have taken magnesium on and off but found it rough on the gut, which makes me wonder whether more is being lost than is gained by taking it!
>
The magnesium in the brand I mentioned of P5P will bypass your stomach.Low estrogen can cause anxiety too.
If you are cycling and find say day 4 , 5 or 6 are really bad anxiety wise..these are the lows of estrogen.Jan
Posted by sabre on December 2, 2004, at 23:05:42
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine » sabre, posted by tealady on December 1, 2004, at 14:15:52
Thanks for the P5P information, Jan. I find there is there is so much to learn!
I have higher levels of anxiety around ovulation when the oestrogen should be high and even more so, when the progesterone falls a couple of days before my period.
sabre
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2004, at 10:54:17
In reply to muscle triggers and tyrosine, posted by sabre on November 29, 2004, at 1:47:21
> Hi
> I have been taking tyrosine for over three weeks now and I'm still getting an anti panic effect however in that time I have also developed very sensitive muscle triggers that are aggravated by sport and work. It seems to be gradually becoming worse.
>
> I have read that muscle triggers can be aggravated by vit and neurotransmitter deficiencies, esp GABA. Any ideas about what is happening?
>
> If you take one supplement like tyrosine that increases neurotransmitters like dopamine and NA, does this cause an imbalance eg a relative deficiency of serotonin or GABA?
>
> Thanks
> sabreAre you getting enough minerals? Calcium and magnesium immediately spring to mind.
Many years ago, before I had a clue about nutrition, I read that a folk remedy for muscle cramps was dolomite with vitame E. I was getting massively painful muscle spasms, not just the charlie-horse, but in my feet, shoulders and elsewhere. Within days, these stopped entirely.
Dolomite contains calcium and magnesium carbonates, and I suspect I simply was mineral-deficient at the time. Not sure where the vitamin E fits in, but the combination worked.
The other thing that might help is taurine.
Lar
Posted by sabre on December 11, 2004, at 20:04:51
In reply to Re: muscle triggers and tyrosine » sabre, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2004, at 10:54:17
Hi Larry
Thanks for the advice. I went on a long run this morning and came back with bad nerve pain in both heels.It seems that whenever I use muscles intensely or for a protracted time, the triggers become sensitised and this shortens the muscle. I end up getting problems like insertional tendonitis in the Achilles and nerve pain.
I suspect there is a more general biochemical imbalance that leaves me susceptible to this. Strangely enough before reading this post I tried 1/3 tsp of magnesium and it eased the pain to stop the hobbling (it gets pretty bad!). It seemed to help a fair bit this time...within about an hour.
I'll start taking it at night as I find all my muscles seem to shrink overnight leaving them tight..esp the calves.
I haven't got any taurine but I will give it a go. I have heaps of calcium in my diet and I read that this can compete with magnesium for absorption?
Thanks again
sabre
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