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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saw on January 21, 2005, at 4:48:33
What is the difference between flax seed oil and fish/salmon oil and what different benefits do they have?
Sabrina
Posted by Tabitha on January 21, 2005, at 9:50:35
In reply to Flax seed oil and fish oil, posted by saw on January 21, 2005, at 4:48:33
I've wondered that too. My impression is that fish oil is better for you but flax oil is still good, particularly if you're vegetarian and don't want to use fish oil.
Somehow I'll bet Larry Hoover will have a few things to say about this one...
Posted by KaraS on January 21, 2005, at 12:12:09
In reply to Flax seed oil and fish oil, posted by saw on January 21, 2005, at 4:48:33
> What is the difference between flax seed oil and fish/salmon oil and what different benefits do they have?
>
> Sabrina
Sabrina,Larry and others have posted a lot of information on this in the recent past. If you do a search here, you'll find a ton of good material.
Take care,
Kara
Posted by saw on January 24, 2005, at 2:45:24
In reply to Re: Flax seed oil and fish oil » saw, posted by KaraS on January 21, 2005, at 12:12:09
Thanks very much. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry to do a search last week.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/270167.html from Larry describes nicely the difference between the 2 oils but I just don't which one I should be taking. Or why I am taking it in the first place.
I have never seen a difference anywhere since taking: firstly Omega 3 & 6, then Salmon oil and now flaxseed oil containing omega and fish oil.
I find the whole thing quite confusing.
Sabrina
Posted by KaraS on January 24, 2005, at 15:36:53
In reply to Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by saw on January 24, 2005, at 2:45:24
> Thanks very much. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry to do a search last week.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/270167.html from Larry describes nicely the difference between the 2 oils but I just don't which one I should be taking. Or why I am taking it in the first place.
>
> I have never seen a difference anywhere since taking: firstly Omega 3 & 6, then Salmon oil and now flaxseed oil containing omega and fish oil.
>
> I find the whole thing quite confusing.
>
> Sabrina
Sabrina,The Omega 3s are good for a lot of health reasons including depression. I recently noticed that I"m not having any trouble with arthritis in one of my fingers and the only change I've made was to increase my fish oil amount.
It's hard to say which you should take (salmon oil, fish oil or flax seed oil) although salmon oil and fish oil are probably better than flax seed oil. Flax seed has to undergo more processes in the body in order to get to the omega 3 stage and your body may not be that good at processing it.
Some people haven't noticed an antidepressant effect from the Omega 3's until they get to a large dosage. "LOOPS" just recently posted that she had tried fish oil a few times but didn't notice anything. Then lately she went up to between 6-7 grams and she started getting a definite antidepressant effect.
Hope that helps.
Kara
Posted by Jakeman on January 25, 2005, at 0:55:47
In reply to Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by saw on January 24, 2005, at 2:45:24
> Thanks very much. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry to do a search last week.
>For what is's worth, Dr. Joan Larson provides a list that may give some indication on one have having inadequate stores of esentail fatty acids.
Here's an excerpt:OMEGA-3 Deficiency (supplements: cold water fish oils, flaxseed oil/meal)
dry skin, dandruff, frequent urination, irritability, depresson, soft nails, fatique, dry hair, dry eyes, learning problems, allergies, excesive thirst, frequent infections, attention deficit, others.OMEGA-6 Deficiency (supplements: borage, primrose oils).
depression, family history of alcholism or mental illness, history of colitis, other intestinal problems, experiencing an emotional lift from certain foods or vits, eczema, tendency to abuse alcohol, Celtic, Scandivavian, Native American Ancestry, Pyroluria, winter depression.Some data have shown that GLA from omega 6 oils produces prostesglandin E1 (PGE1)which helps with depression, anxiety, alcohol and food cravings. While many people get suffienct amounts of omega-6 oils in their diet, they are often hydrogenated and do more harm than good. The high intake of hydrogenated oils, trans-fatty acids and sugar can result in a decrease in absorption of the good fatty acids.
Deciding what kinds of oils to take gets somewhat complicated and may require some experimentation.
Some people choose flax oil over fish oil because they are vegetarian. Then there are some brand that are blends of more than one type of oil (i.e. Source Naturals Arctic Pure EFA).
Posted by saw on January 25, 2005, at 1:48:19
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » saw, posted by Jakeman on January 25, 2005, at 0:55:47
Thanks Kara and Jakeman
This info has helped. I am going to finish the flaxseed and go back to fish / salmon oil and take Omega 3/6 with that as well. (What happens if I take in too much?)
I noted one of the deficiencies for Omega 3 is soft nails - no wonder my nails have suddenly become so hard!
As for Omega 6 - I must still be deficient as I misuse and abuse alcohol and am all too weak to stop. Probably wouldn't hurt to take some Primrose oil too then.
Thanks again for your replies. (That includes you Tabitha)
Sabrina
Posted by tealady on January 25, 2005, at 16:56:34
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by saw on January 25, 2005, at 1:48:19
I stopped taking fish oils and started taking ground linseed(same thing as flaxseed) and also rubbing flaxseed oil into my legs.
I must admit I couldn't get past the one fish oil capsule anyway with the acne etc side effects and I never felt improved.On the ground linseed...
I think I've noticed an improvement with dry red eyes which have cleared, although it could be other changes I've made like estrogen. Also dry mouth has improved.
I read somewhere that the best form of omega3 this dry mouth, stinging dry red eyes etc was flaxseed(linseed).
Ground meal is the preferable form apparently as the oil tends to go rancid and the full seeds don't get digested. Some people even grind their own seeds for freshness. That's going a bit far for me at present.
Also the linseed(flaxseed) acts a goitrogen so may slow thyroid function, although at 1 tablespoon daily added to my oats I don't think I've noticed this greatly. I have upped my thyroid meds though. So with other changes I have made I really can't be certain, but I do suspect that the linseed may be helping.
If anyone does try ground linseed especially for dry eyes,dry mouth, please let me know how it goes.At present I'm not taking EPO, but that has always been a favourite with me too.
Jan
Posted by MM on January 31, 2005, at 4:22:59
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » saw, posted by tealady on January 25, 2005, at 16:56:34
I have taken both flax and fish oils and I liked the fish oil better because the flax oil for me was "activating" and it made me somewhat irritable. I did notice a positive difference with the fish oil. Hope one of them helps you.
Meg
Posted by KaraS on January 31, 2005, at 11:46:06
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by MM on January 31, 2005, at 4:22:59
> I have taken both flax and fish oils and I liked the fish oil better because the flax oil for me was "activating" and it made me somewhat irritable. I did notice a positive difference with the fish oil. Hope one of them helps you.
> Meg
How much do you take?
Posted by MM on January 31, 2005, at 13:27:44
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » MM, posted by KaraS on January 31, 2005, at 11:46:06
7-10 grams, although, as I've been reading around, I guess less is more, so next time I get fish oil, I'll cut that dose in half and see if works any better.
Posted by KaraS on January 31, 2005, at 19:45:00
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » KaraS, posted by MM on January 31, 2005, at 13:27:44
> 7-10 grams, although, as I've been reading around, I guess less is more, so next time I get fish oil, I'll cut that dose in half and see if works any better.
Thanks.How dramatic was the effect?
Please let us know if you still have success at the smaller dose.k
Posted by MM on January 31, 2005, at 20:53:10
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » MM, posted by KaraS on January 31, 2005, at 19:45:00
The effect wasn't as dramatic as what an antidepressant or mood stabilizer feels like, but I definitely notice that it helps and can tell the difference when I'm off it. I just feel better when I take it (could be placebo, but I don't think so). It doesn't have the druggy feeling that the Pmeds have so that could be in part why it feels less dramatic, because that drugged up feeling is a lot of what I notice about my meds. I think it's worth a shot for anyone because it is good for any brain, not just mentally ill ones.
I'll be sure to let you know if it still helps at a lower dose next time I get some.
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 1, 2005, at 10:06:50
In reply to Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by saw on January 24, 2005, at 2:45:24
> Thanks very much. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry to do a search last week.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/270167.html from Larry describes nicely the difference between the 2 oils but I just don't which one I should be taking. Or why I am taking it in the first place.
>
> I have never seen a difference anywhere since taking: firstly Omega 3 & 6, then Salmon oil and now flaxseed oil containing omega and fish oil.
>
> I find the whole thing quite confusing.
>
> SabrinaSorry, I've been MIA for a while. Might as well start back in with something I'm really comfortable discussing.
The first thing I want to say is that omega-3 and omega-6 are categories of fatty acids. The individual members of those categories are not to be considered equivalent to each other. Each omega-3 or -6 fatty acid has its own biochemical "personality". There are enzymatic processes that change one to the other, but they are very inefficient. By far, the best way to obtain the individual members of those categories in their essential amounts is to consume them directly. Taking flax seed oil supplies a ready amount of a potential precursor to the longer chain omega-3s EPA and DHA, but it is not the same thing as simply taking those directly, as by consuming fish or fish oil. The same thing goes for the omega-6 fatty acids; although alpha-linoleic acid (18:2) and gamma-linolenic acid (18:3) are both omega-6 fatty acids, they have divergent biochemical impacts in the body, particularly in the presence of omega-3 fatty acids.
I generally do not recommend flax oil as a sole source of omega-3s. It's fine to have it in your diet, particularly to the extent that it substitutes for e.g. soya or corn oils, but it is not a complete source of omega-3 fatty acids.
Here is a really accessible summary article on the subject:
http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/8/3/223
Here's a good summary of the evidence for direct consumption of DHA:
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/1/183
Lar
Posted by jakeman on February 1, 2005, at 20:30:32
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » saw, posted by Larry Hoover on February 1, 2005, at 10:06:50
Larry, great articles, maybe I can use them to educate my doctor :-). I have a shortage of a blood clotting substance, (von Willebrand factor vWF) so that supplements like fish oils, vitamin E or other "blood thinners" may be contraindicated for people like me. But so far I can't find any research that examines EFA's and the effect on people with vWF or other blood clotting disorders. I have been told to not take aspirin.
Jake
> Here is a really accessible summary article on the subject:
>
> http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/8/3/223
>
> Here's a good summary of the evidence for direct consumption of DHA:
>
> http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/1/183
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by joebob on February 7, 2005, at 10:05:52
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » saw, posted by Larry Hoover on February 1, 2005, at 10:06:50
that only epa seems to have an effect on depression and schizophrenia
welcome back
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 16:42:33
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now?, posted by jakeman on February 1, 2005, at 20:30:32
> Larry, great articles, maybe I can use them to educate my doctor :-). I have a shortage of a blood clotting substance, (von Willebrand factor vWF) so that supplements like fish oils, vitamin E or other "blood thinners" may be contraindicated for people like me. But so far I can't find any research that examines EFA's and the effect on people with vWF or other blood clotting disorders. I have been told to not take aspirin.
>
> JakeI can't find any evidence that vWF is affected by fish oil supplementation, but that doesn't mean that the clotting parameters that do change would be of no relevance to your condition.
Here are a few abstracts that mention vWF:
Lar
Posted by Jakeman on February 16, 2005, at 1:20:04
In reply to Re: Thanks, I searched but what now? » jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 16:42:33
Larry, thanks much for the abstracts, good info, I had not found those before. I still have symptoms sometimes of abnormal blood clotting, (like spontaneous bruises) but that happened even before I took fish oil. And some antidepressants that I have taken list this as a side-effect. So its hard to know.
Jake
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