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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2005, at 18:39:21
I read that there was an association between b12 and MAO-B. Does this mean that b12 has a direct effect on MAO-B ??
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 25, 2005, at 8:52:58
In reply to does b12 effect MAO-B ??, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2005, at 18:39:21
> I read that there was an association between b12 and MAO-B. Does this mean that b12 has a direct effect on MAO-B ??
>
> Thanks
>
> LinkadgeIn senile dementias, severity of symptoms is positively correlated to MAO-B activity, but there is a stronger inverse correlation to vitamin B12 status.
Aging itself leads to increases in MAO-B, and it could be that some of the changes that come with age are accelerated in the senile dementias. At least in the sense of protecting the brain from the maximum effect of these aging processes, it makes sense to ensure that your intake of B12 is adequate, the older you are.
I don't see any evidence that the same effect is seen in younger people. It may well be true, but there is no evidence. However, it does speak to the effectiveness of selegiline at low doses, as an augment strategy.....taking MAO-B out of the picture might be a really good thing, overall.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 14:39:47
In reply to Re: does b12 effect MAO-B ?? » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on April 25, 2005, at 8:52:58
I mean I have often asked myself this and similar questions, but really there doesn't seem to be an answer.
If MAOI's work for depression, does that mean that MAO activity is higher in some people with depression.
Its just like the idea of reuptake. Is the reputake of serotonin actually higher in depressed people. If so, why don't undepressed people have sexual problems, apathy, insomnia, and other SSRI related side effects.
Sometimes I just don't buy the whole serotonin gene thing. Especially since the rats that these drugs are tested on are likely to have normal serotonin uptake.
Does serotonin uptake vary from time to time in the same individual ?? Does stress actually change the uptake of serotonin.
Ask you can see, I am having a real crisis of belief. I bought the whole serotonin gene thing a while back, but when the drugs pooped out I lost that feeling of empowerment. That feeling like I could pinpoint the source of my problems. That feeling like I could prevent ever going there again. How utterly wrong I was.I am starting to believe the more depressing outlook/possability that depression is just a natural and enevitable responce to the unavoidable stress in our every day lives.
Did you know that after one war in Serbia, one study found that 85% of people met the criteria for major depression.
Everone wants to believe that they have found the secret to happiness. I think this is just a time limiting, self serving bias. It is just like the placebo effect. Something that we can blame our suffering on, other than reality.
I mean *everbody* is on an antidepressant these days. I mean that almost literally "everbody".
It really tweeks me too, cause when everbody has an illness then nobody has an illness.
Sorry, this post has little to do with the title :)
Linkadge
Posted by joebob on May 4, 2005, at 22:59:23
In reply to Does MAO-B activity vary from person to person, posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 14:39:47
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 19:49:36
In reply to Does MAO-B activity vary from person to person, posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 14:39:47
Yes, it does vary from person to person, and also based upon environmental factors, age, etc. I cannot tell you exactly HOW it varies, but MAO levels can be a marker for various conditions.
Insofar as the "everyone's depressed" thing: You have a valid point. And, as I am an admierer of people like Thomas Szsasz and R.D. Liang, etc., you will find me to be very sympathetic to the idea of mental illness being culturally constructed to pathologize unwanted behavior that is will within the normal human condition, etc. However, there are some people like me who are, for whatever reason, just kinda born depressed. I was not born with major depression (I'm not sure if that is possible, anyway), I was born with dysthymia. I've always had it; some of my earliest memories contain what now I understand to be dysthymic thoughts and behavior. I also was born with my social phobia/agoraphobia, to some degree. There are pictures of me at my first birthday party in the photo album, surrounded by a large, loving family and friends. I mean, my family LOVED me. They praised my existence to the stars; and yet if you look at pictures of me sitting at the cake, I am afraid and tense as all hell. this was at age ONE, before I could develop any such disorders based on experience.
Fast forward to age 21: I'm in college, in existentialism class. I'm surrounded by people that like me, and I'm giving a presentation. I didn't prepare for it well--this was before I got a successful treatment (MAOI) for my dysthymia--because I had a hard time following through with any project or feeling a positive reward in anything--but that's OK, I read the selection from Sartre. Well, most kids in the class handed out busy work after speaking for 10 minutes so they didn't have to talk.
Well, I went up to the front of the room and just said basically whatever came to mind. I didn't face the class for much of the time because I'm scared to death of crowds, although for some reason I always was capable of putting myself into "this is a dream" mode when making oral presentations. Well, I really didn't keep track of the time, and ended up speaking passionately on Sartre's "bad faith" and self-deception for about an hour. When I was done speaking, I looked at the class and I got this raucous applause. I had done such a good job that a bunch of generally disinterested college kids were going NUTS over my presentation.
Well, I felt scared to death of the applause and wanted to leave the room ASAP. A girl came up afterward (in retrospect I think she was hitting on me) and told me, "you know, you're really good at that." I said, "At what, bad faith?" I was no more able to take the good-willed applause from my peers at age 21 than I was able to take it from my family at age 1. It's just who I am. And I'm almost in tears (despite the Nardil + buprenorphine regime) thinking abut it because I've lost so much time to being [metaphorically, as Szasz would say] sick, and blew off so many positive opportunities because of my mental illness.
Syracuse University's professor of psychopharmacology told me privately one day that I was his "protege" and that he wanted to get me into John's Hopkins psychopharm grad program and personally see to it that I succeed. Rather than take him up on it, I stayed sequestered in my room at school, eventually choosing to numb the pain with pot. Now, mind you, in case you haven't been able to tell, I LOVE PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY. I could read about every waking moment (I'm only partly kidding) and hope to make a career out if it, and yet his offering of a career in it seemed "blah" and "gray". If that's not dysthymia, I don't know what is.
So you see, it's unfortunately not as simple as you've been musing it might be. :(
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 19:53:07
In reply to Re: does b12 effect MAO-B ?? » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on April 25, 2005, at 8:52:58
I never got him to tell me why, but my psychopharm professor/guru when I was at syracuse university told me that MAO-B is not all bad, and that people shouldn't go around inhibiting it for no reason. As much as I still think selegiline is a wonderful drug, and as much as I know about the health benefits of not having MAO-B around, I cannot completely discount his statement. Until I see evidence that MAO-B is as vestigial as the appendix, I'm going to hold a position that inhibiting MAO-B significantly is good for a whole slew of applications and conditions, but that it's not as inoccuous as taking a multivitamin.
This is the end of the thread.
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