![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 73. Go back in thread:
Posted by barbaracat on October 1, 2005, at 16:49:21
In reply to How did it go? (nm) » barbaracat, posted by gromit on October 1, 2005, at 16:15:00
Real nice and smooth! I forgot I'd taken it cause I got busy preparing dinner but after about 2 hours I noticed I was feeling very alert yet calm with a nice feeling of emotional warmth flooding though me.
I was initially concerned it would be too speedy and keep me awake but just the opposite. I slept very well (although I woke up a number of times, which was good cause it helped me remember some very amazing and vivid dreams - a connection?)
I remember thinking last night 'if this is the way it really is, I can see how this would be a very good ADD treatment and could replace stimulant drugs.' It felt like it was doing my brain some good, like nourising rather than depleting. A nice surprise because I was expecting something alot more zippy.
I'm going to pop one right now and find out if it was more than beginner's luck. The order came right away, cost about $20 a bottle so I'd encourage you to try it out and we can swap notes. And hey, thanks for suggesting it! - Barbara
Posted by gromit on October 3, 2005, at 17:28:33
In reply to Re: How did it go? » gromit, posted by barbaracat on October 1, 2005, at 16:49:21
Emotional warmth is a good description of how it affects me too. It's too much NE that makes me twitchy and mucuna sort of balances it out, it makes adderall more tolerable. Not sure how this works since DA turns into NE doesn't it? Oh well, I will order some and let you know if it's better than what I've been taking.
Rick
Posted by barbaracat on October 3, 2005, at 23:06:11
In reply to Re: How did it go? » barbaracat, posted by gromit on October 3, 2005, at 17:28:33
That whole dopamine to NE pathway is a bit of a weak point in my neurotransmitter education. I'm much better with Se since so much is tied up with it physically, emotionally, hormonally (especially the reproductive hormones). But \ what I was wondering when I felt the 'glow' was Like, what is going on here?
I don't know enough about L-dopa vs. dopamine agonists like Wellbutrin (which makes me feel bug-eyed and twitchy). Like, why would WB make me feel this way when a surge of L-dopa leaves me feeling like betstowing blessings upon the human race (as well as cleaning my house)? I have a few questions emailed to the company. They've answered some general stuff and seem agreeable to answering questions. Yes, definitely order some so I have someone to bounce stuff off of. - Barbara
> Emotional warmth is a good description of how it affects me too. It's too much NE that makes me twitchy and mucuna sort of balances it out, it makes adderall more tolerable. Not sure how this works since DA turns into NE doesn't it? Oh well, I will order some and let you know if it's better than what I've been taking.
>
>
> Rick
>
Posted by barbaracat on October 5, 2005, at 20:42:51
In reply to Re: How did it go? » gromit, posted by barbaracat on October 3, 2005, at 23:06:11
An interesting experiment. I haven't been taking Macuna every day for various reasons. This morning I was feeling some anxiety and depression from not being able to get enough exercise for awhile since falling and hurting my back. I was feeling worried, fretful, sad, useless, and about to take a lorezapam to go to sleep when I thought, hmmmmm, I wonder how macuna would affect this axiety. A dopamine agonist is usually the last thing I'd reach for in anxiety but what the heck, be brave for the cause.
Within 1-1/2 hours of taking it I was feeling calm, energized and pretty darn good and even my pain was alot less. This is very good news for me because anxiety is my achilles heel and will bring on every bad thing if it gets out of hand. I don't always get relief from benzos which sometimes don't work or leave me feeling dull.
The macuna didn't feel like a benzo, a stimulant, or anything else. It just felt like going from a bad day to a good mood. Is this counterintuitive or is this how macuna is supposed to feel? - Barbara
Posted by gromit on October 6, 2005, at 12:21:44
In reply to More from the Macuna front, posted by barbaracat on October 5, 2005, at 20:42:51
> Within 1-1/2 hours of taking it I was feeling calm, energized and pretty darn good and even my pain was alot less. This is very good news for me because anxiety is my achilles heel and will bring on every bad thing if it gets out of hand. I don't always get relief from benzos which sometimes don't work or leave me feeling dull.
I absolutely hate benzos, refused to even take ambien until a couple of months ago. That was dumb, ambien is great! Valium is depression in pill form for me.
> The macuna didn't feel like a benzo, a stimulant, or anything else. It just felt like going from a bad day to a good mood. Is this counterintuitive or is this how macuna is supposed to feel? - BarbaraWhat is normal anyway? I'm sure alot of people wouldn't react that way but I also find it very relaxing and yet energizing in moderate doses. It still doesn't make sense to me, DLPA and tyrosine both made me feel kind of uncomfortable even though they did help.
Rick
Posted by gromit on October 6, 2005, at 12:29:52
In reply to Macuna pruriens and deprenyl, posted by Declan on October 1, 2005, at 14:58:51
> I'd wondered about macuna judiciosly combined with deprenyl, but figured that it would aggravate my insomnia if it was any good.
Hah, but you won't know for sure unless you try it. It is completely different than tyrosine or DLPA for me, those always made me feel kind of vaguely uneasy, sort of a bad stimulation. Mucuna feels like jumping into a nice pool on a hot day. Wish I had known about it when I was taking deprenyl. I knew about l-dopa but figured it must surely be illegal to buy dopamine in a pill.
Rick
Posted by barbaracat on October 6, 2005, at 13:32:02
In reply to Re: More from the Macuna front » barbaracat, posted by gromit on October 6, 2005, at 12:21:44
> I absolutely hate benzos, refused to even take ambien until a couple of months ago. That was dumb, ambien is great! Valium is depression in pill form for me.
**Yeah, valium is depression in a pill for me too. Other benzos aren't quite as bad and I'll take lorazepam if I'm needing to chill. But sometimes they don't do a thing and if I take another I end up feeling edgy and uncomfortable. I have paradoxical reactions to a few meds but not consistently. Probably has something to do with what I've eaten and how it affects the cytochrome P-450 enzymes.
**Ah, Ambien. Finally a sleeping med that does what it promises and lets you out of bed in the morning. I was taking it for 3 years, experienced some tolerance and towards the end before I quit needed 20mg. Quitting was very difficult. Talk about rebound insomnia! The whole time I was reducing it I got either no sleep or 3-4 hours max. Finally am off it and as long as things are quiet and conducive to sleep, I get to sleep, stay asleep and have a wonderfully vivid backlog of dreams that troll the psyche and entertain.
> What is normal anyway? I'm sure alot of people wouldn't react that way but I also find it very relaxing and yet energizing in moderate doses. It still doesn't make sense to me, DLPA and tyrosine both made me feel kind of uncomfortable even though they did help.**Yes, it is puzzling. I'd guess that with the aminos, it's not a direct supplementing but a precursor thing where all sorts of other receptors are getting hit along the way, some of which may be too activating. The L-dopa is just that. No conversion, no uptake, just a direct hit of dopamine. But even so, dopamine is excitatory. I dunno, it still doesn't make sense.
-Barbara
Posted by barbaracat on October 6, 2005, at 13:54:06
In reply to Macuna pruriens and deprenyl, posted by Declan on October 1, 2005, at 14:58:51
> I'd wondered about macuna judiciosly combined with deprenyl, but figured that it would aggravate my insomnia if it was any good.
> Declan**I agree with Rick, it's worth trying. BTW, I was taking Deprenyl (drops) for a while and the effect is very different from Macuna. Deprenyl was almost like amphetamine for me. Macuna actually helps me fall asleep as long as I take it early.
Word to the wise - the metabolites of Depreyl show up as methamphetamine on drug tests. I almost lost a job because of a random drug test and since I consider meth as Satan in powdered form, I had no idea why it was showing up. Did some digging and found out that this is a common occurrence. I gave them a scanned image of the bottle and the internet articles and was able to keep my job.
A similar thing happened with TCH. Marijuana showed up even though I was clean. Turns out I was eating a breakfast bar and making a protein shake from a product that contained hemp seeds! Apparently it doesn't usually show up but if the test is sensitive enough it will pick up trace amounts. Once again, I made a copy of the labels and Big Brother was satisfied. Ack, I hated that job.
-Barbara
Posted by TamaraJ on October 7, 2005, at 12:25:05
In reply to Re: Macuna pruriens and deprenyl » Declan, posted by barbaracat on October 6, 2005, at 13:54:06
Can macuna pruriens be taken with a SSRI? I am currently using Paxil CR, and, while it seems to be working quite well for anxiety and apprehension, it has had a minimal effect on depression.
Thanks.
Posted by barbaracat on October 7, 2005, at 15:10:10
In reply to Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan, posted by TamaraJ on October 7, 2005, at 12:25:05
> Can macuna pruriens be taken with a SSRI? I am currently using Paxil CR, and, while it seems to be working quite well for anxiety and apprehension, it has had a minimal effect on depression.
>**I asked the customer center at the place I ordered the herb from mainly about whether my husband, who is on Wellbutrin, could safely supplement or replace it with L-dopa. She seemed a bit confused because she said they always recommend people to use 5-HTP for coming of ADs. I wrote back and said, umm no, Wellbutrin is not a serotonin med but works on dopamine and norepinephrine. I explained about DLPA and L-tyrosine and said that macuna felt alot better than those. She wrote back "Macuna should not be taken with SSRI! Use 5-HTP!! We sell here." Oh well.
Bottom line is I don't know and neither does she. You run into a delicate balance on these meds because dopamine and serotonin work inversely to each other. One of the reasons for the apathy common to SSRIs, which tells me that a little touch of dopamine with an SSRI might balance things out as long as it doesn't aggravate axiety.
The suprise for me with macuna is that it does not aggravate anxiety, in fact acts as a non-dulling axiolytic. In fact, I've stopped taking the low-dose Cymbalta I was on for about 5 days now. Partly to see how I do and partly once I started the macuna I felt like it was nourishing parts of my brain that weren't being addressed before. Like a very gentle but effective stimulant. I too have an anxiety disorder and am very wary of anything that aggravates it.
I'm not suggesting that macuna would be a replacement for Paxil, but I can't see any danger in starting off slowly. The brand I got I recommend highly is at www.herbal-powers.com. You should be able to tell by how you're feeling if it's going to work for you. I felt something after my first pill (I was still on Cymbalta, BTW). - Barbara
Posted by TamaraJ on October 7, 2005, at 22:15:17
In reply to Re: Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan » TamaraJ, posted by barbaracat on October 7, 2005, at 15:10:10
Thanks so much, Barbaracat, for the information. I decided to order some, and have ordered from the same place you order yours. I'm in Canada so it will probably take a couple of weeks for it to get here, but that's ok. We shall see :-)
Posted by barbaracat on October 8, 2005, at 12:04:33
In reply to Re: Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan » barbaracat, posted by TamaraJ on October 7, 2005, at 22:15:17
I feel like an inner-space explorer 'where no man or worman has gone before'. Definitely keep us posted and hope your experience with macuna is a pleasant one.
-BarbaraCat
> Thanks so much, Barbaracat, for the information. I decided to order some, and have ordered from the same place you order yours. I'm in Canada so it will probably take a couple of weeks for it to get here, but that's ok. We shall see :-)
>
Posted by ravenstorm on October 9, 2005, at 18:28:22
In reply to Re: Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan » TamaraJ, posted by barbaracat on October 8, 2005, at 12:04:33
Tyrosine and DLPA make me shake with anxiety. Way over stimulating. Does that mean macuna would be bad for me too?
Posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 2:11:22
In reply to Re: More from the Macuna front » gromit, posted by barbaracat on October 6, 2005, at 13:32:02
> **Yeah, valium is depression in a pill for me too. Other benzos aren't quite as bad and I'll take lorazepam if I'm needing to chill. But sometimes they don't do a thing and if I take another I end up feeling edgy and uncomfortable. I have paradoxical reactions to a few meds but not consistently. Probably has something to do with what I've eaten and how it affects the cytochrome P-450 enzymes.
I didn't realize there was a big difference between the different benzos except for the half-life and xanax being completely different. Only tried valium for muscle tension and it was horrible. My doctor recently asked me if I was feeling less anxious when we had never discussed anxiety. My wife also says I seem nervous even though I don't really feel nervous. Can you be anxious and not realize it?
> **Ah, Ambien. Finally a sleeping med that does what it promises and lets you out of bed in the morning. I was taking it for 3 years, experienced some tolerance and towards the end before I quit needed 20mg. Quitting was very difficult. Talk about rebound insomnia! The whole time I was reducing it I got either no sleep or 3-4 hours max. Finally am off it and as long as things are quiet and conducive to sleep, I get to sleep, stay asleep and have a wonderfully vivid backlog of dreams that troll the psyche and entertain.
Yeah, thats exactly it, I need to be sleepy at bedtime but not all the next day too. So far no tolerance but it's only been a few months. Did you have any other problems besides insomnia?
> **Yes, it is puzzling. I'd guess that with the aminos, it's not a direct supplementing but a precursor thing where all sorts of other receptors are getting hit along the way, some of which may be too activating. The L-dopa is just that. No conversion, no uptake, just a direct hit of dopamine. But even so, dopamine is excitatory. I dunno, it still doesn't make sense.Oh well. I'm just going to enjoy mucuna, not worry about why it works and hope our government doesn't decide to suddenly ban it. A direct hit of dopamine sounds like something they would like to outlaw.
Rick
Posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 2:49:59
In reply to Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan, posted by TamaraJ on October 7, 2005, at 12:25:05
> Can macuna pruriens be taken with a SSRI? I am currently using Paxil CR, and, while it seems to be working quite well for anxiety and apprehension, it has had a minimal effect on depression.
I haven't read anything that says it might be a problem but please don't just take my word for it. I can relate, SSRI's didn't help with depression at all, felt different but not better. Wish I had some better advice.
Rick
Posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 3:30:30
In reply to Re: Question for Barbaracat, Gromit, Declan, posted by ravenstorm on October 9, 2005, at 18:28:22
> Tyrosine and DLPA make me shake with anxiety. Way over stimulating. Does that mean macuna would be bad for me too?
I wish I knew how to answer your question. While DLPA and tyrosine didn't make me shake with anxiety they did give me a kind of restless, uncomfortable in my own skin feeling. Mucuna doesn't do this to me.
About stimulation, for me there are different flavors of stimulation. There is the happy positive kind and then there's the nervous, angry, sort of too much coffee variety. DLPA and tyrosine are more towards the too much coffee side while mucuna is solidly happy positive in my experience.
Rick
Posted by ravenstorm on October 10, 2005, at 9:14:59
In reply to Macuna hatatta » gromit, posted by barbaracat on September 30, 2005, at 18:26:41
This was posted at the end of the information on the supplement barbcat is taking:
Caution: Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Mucuna Pruriens is not intended for long-term use. Do not take more than 2 months continiously. The long term side effects of Mucuna has not been studied. You may take the product on a 2 months on, 2 months off basis. If you are pregnant, nursing a baby, or have a serious medical condition, seek the advice of a health professional before using this product.
Risk and adverse effects: Researchers have found that taking over 1g of L Dopa a day can cause undesirable side effects such as nausea and vomiting, uncontrollable motions , loss of blood pressure, mental disturbance, and increased cardiac risk. It is highly suggested that you follow the recomended dosage by not exceeding 2 capsules a day, and not take it longer than a 2 months period . If you are currently on medication, please consult your physician before taking any supplement.
Right now, I can't take medications because of what remeron did to my stomach, so anything that could cause vomitting or nausea I probably can't take.
Posted by barbaracat on October 10, 2005, at 12:37:30
In reply to Re: More from the Macuna front » barbaracat, posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 2:11:22
Hi Rick,
I'm on my week off from macuna. The literature says to cycle it.
>
> I didn't realize there was a big difference between the different benzos except for the half-life and xanax being completely different.**I didn't knox xanax was completely different - how? Does it work differently? I liked Xanax but was leery of reports I'd heard about the tolerance issues. I've noticed slight differences in all of them.
I'll take a valium if I have alot of muscle tension and it works fine without any depression. If I take it because I'm only feeling anxious, it won't help and will create rebound anxiety. Restoril is supposed to be a sleeping med but it wires me up, lasts 3 hours and then has a let down that feels depressing. I take lorezapam because it seems to work the best for me, although when I'm really needing something, like times I've run out of lithium and have gotten very hyper, the benzos don't do a thing.
I've actually taken 10 at a time to just come down and sleep and needed that much because my body was revving so fast. I've often wondered if that's what happened to Marilyn Monroe? I've heard rumors that she was an undiagnosed bipolar and its easy to see how someone might get carried away trying to get a little sleep, especially if she'd been drinking.
>>My doctor recently asked me if I was feeling less anxious when we had never discussed anxiety. My wife also says I seem nervous even though I don't really feel nervous. Can you be anxious and not realize it?
**What's your dx? I recall ADD. Perhaps you could talk to your wife and ask for specifics. My opinion is that the nervous person is the first to notice their own anxiety and attempts to hide it if possible from others, not the other way around. Perhaps you have nervous mannerisms that go along with ADD, especially ADHD. Some people hold themselves stiffly and have a natural deer in the headlights look, or startle easily. A surplus of energy doesn't always mean anxiety. Usually means you need to get more exercise and learn to dance.
>
> > > So far no tolerance to Ambien but it's only been a few months. Did you have any other problems besides insomnia?**No, it was the most benign med I've ever taken. It was like taking nothing, except it got me to sleep. The good thing is that it's the least interfering of all of them with Stage IV sleep where all the rejuvination goes on. Some reports of worsening depression, but I never noticed any. I will go back to it in a heartbeat if I start going through insommia again.
A word to the wise. Forget the other 'new' sleep meds. Lunesta stinks! Literally, bad taste in the mouth that doesn't go away and besides it didn't even work very well. Haven't heard glowing reports about Sonata.
>
> > I'm just going to enjoy mucuna, not worry about why it works and hope our government doesn't decide to suddenly ban it. A direct hit of dopamine sounds like something they would like to outlaw.
>
>There's alot of concern in the states that Codex Alimentarus is going to go through. It's like this oozing Big Brother that creeps into your life. Can you not order meds online, or do they confiscate everything?Codex and your tax system are the main reasons my husband and I did not consider moving to Canada if Bush got elected. We were making plans for Argentina but then figured we'd wait and see if he didn't hoist himself on his own petard, which he is, so maybe a move won't be necessary. - Barbara
Posted by barbaracat on October 10, 2005, at 12:46:15
In reply to Re: Macuna hatatta, posted by ravenstorm on October 10, 2005, at 9:14:59
**Hi Ravenstorm,
I've decided to try 1 week off and on and play with it from there because I'm on other meds. With any dopamine agonst you run the risk of tardive diskinesia and I don't want to risk that.Why do you want to take macuna? What interests you about it? Are you looking for something specific or just to see if it will reduce depression and benefit your quality of life?
I also was on Remeron for a while. Loved it for the first 30 days and then it did a real number on me that took quite a while to recover from. Weight gain, stomach problems. It targets a unique serotonin receptor that, IMHO, should be left alone.
I didn't notice any problems at all with stomach upset with 1 pill of macuna, just a nice alert happy warmth. I don't always feel it, sometimes I just notice I'm a little more focused but no change in mood. That's why I'm trying to cycle on and off to reduce any tolerance issues.
- Barbara>
This was posted at the end of the information on the supplement barbcat is taking:
>
> Caution: Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Mucuna Pruriens is not intended for long-term use. Do not take more than 2 months continiously. The long term side effects of Mucuna has not been studied. You may take the product on a 2 months on, 2 months off basis. If you are pregnant, nursing a baby, or have a serious medical condition, seek the advice of a health professional before using this product.
>
> Risk and adverse effects: Researchers have found that taking over 1g of L Dopa a day can cause undesirable side effects such as nausea and vomiting, uncontrollable motions , loss of blood pressure, mental disturbance, and increased cardiac risk. It is highly suggested that you follow the recomended dosage by not exceeding 2 capsules a day, and not take it longer than a 2 months period . If you are currently on medication, please consult your physician before taking any supplement.
>
>
> Right now, I can't take medications because of what remeron did to my stomach, so anything that could cause vomitting or nausea I probably can't take.
Posted by gromit on October 10, 2005, at 15:16:52
In reply to Re: Macuna hatatta, posted by ravenstorm on October 10, 2005, at 9:14:59
> This was posted at the end of the information on the supplement barbcat is taking:
>
> Caution: Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Mucuna Pruriens is not intended for long-term use. Do not take more than 2 months continiously. The long term side effects of Mucuna has not been studied. You may take the product on a 2 months on, 2 months off basis. If you are pregnant, nursing a baby, or have a serious medical condition, seek the advice of a health professional before using this product.
>
> Risk and adverse effects: Researchers have found that taking over 1g of L Dopa a day can cause undesirable side effects such as nausea and vomiting, uncontrollable motions , loss of blood pressure, mental disturbance, and increased cardiac risk. It is highly suggested that you follow the recomended dosage by not exceeding 2 capsules a day, and not take it longer than a 2 months period . If you are currently on medication, please consult your physician before taking any supplement.It seems like you're supposed to cycle quite a few supplements. Not many "alternative" treatments have been really studied long term it seems.
> Right now, I can't take medications because of what remeron did to my stomach, so anything that could cause vomitting or nausea I probably can't take.
I haven't noticed any stomach upset myself. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think those side effects are caused specifically by mucuna, it's just how too much dopamine effects people. It says over 1 gram of l-dopa per day, even with the high octane brand the if you take the max 500 mg you actually get less than 250 mg of l-dopa. So if you take 4 times the recommended dose bad things might happen but that would be true of many other things too.
Man, that almost sounded like a sales pitch. Is your doctor open minded about stuff like this? I've only had one pdoc who didn't either shrug me off or get irritated if I mentioned any kind of natural thing.
Rick
Posted by gromit on October 11, 2005, at 1:29:01
In reply to Re: More from the Macuna front » gromit, posted by barbaracat on October 10, 2005, at 12:37:30
Hi,
> I'm on my week off from macuna. The literature says to cycle it.
I'm also not taking any but that's just because I ran out and haven't ordered any.
> **I didn't knox xanax was completely different - how? Does it work differently? I liked Xanax but was leery of reports I'd heard about the tolerance issues. I've noticed slight differences in all of them.I've read that it's the one benzo that has AD properties instead of possibly increasing depression. Can't remember the details though but I'm pretty sure I read that here more than once.
> I've actually taken 10 at a time to just come down and sleep and needed that much because my body was revving so fast. I've often wondered if that's what happened to Marilyn Monroe? I've heard rumors that she was an undiagnosed bipolar and its easy to see how someone might get carried away trying to get a little sleep, especially if she'd been drinking.I'm not bipolar but I am a lifelong insomniac so I can relate to overdoing it to try to get some sleep. I learned not to combine ambien with even one drink though.
> **What's your dx? I recall ADD. Perhaps you could talk to your wife and ask for specifics. My opinion is that the nervous person is the first to notice their own anxiety and attempts to hide it if possible from others, not the other way around. Perhaps you have nervous mannerisms that go along with ADD, especially ADHD. Some people hold themselves stiffly and have a natural deer in the headlights look, or startle easily. A surplus of energy doesn't always mean anxiety. Usually means you need to get more exercise and learn to dance.MDD, dysthymia, excessive daytime sleepiness, nervousness in social situations that I guess isn't bad enough to be diagnosed social anxiety. I had one doctor, who was the best, say I was describing symptoms of alexathymia after talking with him about therapy. In the past that's always left me and I think the therapists frustrated. Kind of like this, Why do you do (or not do) that? I don't know. How does that make you feel? I don't know, etc. Had to look it up, apparently it's more common in people with autistic type disorders but it does seem to fit so tack that on.
So no clear diagnosis except ADD and I believe everything else is a result of going 40 yrs without being diagnosed.
I've been wondering if it's possible to trick yourself to the point that you're not aware of something, but subconsciously it's still there and comes out in different ways. I was really nervous and hyper as a kid, after enough times in class or a group suddenly realizing everyone is looking at me waiting for a response and I have no clue what they were talking about cause I was zoned. A bunch of stuff like that, and cool kids don't act nervous so yeah I did try my best to hide it.
I don't have much energy at all, certainly not a surplus! I'm the lethargic inattentive type, usually don't get startled even when I probably should, but my upper body is in a state of constant tension and people say I seem nervous. BTW how did you know I can't dance?
> A word to the wise. Forget the other 'new' sleep meds. Lunesta stinks! Literally, bad taste in the mouth that doesn't go away and besides it didn't even work very well. Haven't heard glowing reports about Sonata.
That's too bad, I was thinking of asking to try something else. Not that I don't like ambien but am worried about tolerance after taking it every night for a long time.
> Codex and your tax system are the main reasons my husband and I did not consider moving to Canada if Bush got elected. We were making plans for Argentina but then figured we'd wait and see if he didn't hoist himself on his own petard, which he is, so maybe a move won't be necessary. - Barbara
The Codex thing worries me, the medical marijuana debacle showed me this administration doesn't give a hoot about people's suffering or rights. That's another topic for another board though I guess.
Rick
Posted by barbaracat on October 11, 2005, at 13:40:05
In reply to Re: More from the Macuna front » barbaracat, posted by gromit on October 11, 2005, at 1:29:01
> I've read that Xanax is the one benzo that has AD properties instead of possibly increasing depression. Can't remember the details though but I'm pretty sure I read that here more than once.
**Now that you mention it, I do remember reading that. It's the one benzo that actually makes me zoned out. Klonipin supposedly has anti-seizure properties and is used as a mood stabilizer. Sometimes I wonder if they actually have different chemical structures or if it's more a sales pitch by the manufacturer.
>
> MDD, dysthymia, excessive daytime sleepiness, nervousness in social situations that I guess isn't bad enough to be diagnosed social anxiety. I had one doctor, who was the best, say I was describing symptoms of alexathymia after talking with him about therapy.**Alexathymia, now there's a new one on me. Is it that you really don't know, as in inattentive to the point of not noticing how you're feeling, or is it that you know how you feel but can't express it?
>
> So no clear diagnosis except ADD and I believe everything else is a result of going 40 yrs without being diagnosed.**Mine changes too. I spent most of my life thinking I had major unipolar depression, only a flavor unlike other depressives I knew. It's been reclassified as bipolar I with mixed states depressions (which is why those horrid agitated depressions were such nightmares). I think I've always had a touch of ADD but it's unclear if it's comorbid along with the bipolar, or if it's just a facet of bipolar, like how does a person act when they're having a melt-down. Organized? Focused? I think not.
>
> I've been wondering if it's possible to trick yourself to the point that you're not aware of something, but subconsciously it's still there and comes out in different ways. I was really nervous and hyper as a kid, after enough times in class or a group suddenly realizing everyone is looking at me waiting for a response and I have no clue what they were talking about cause I was zoned. A bunch of stuff like that, and cool kids don't act nervous so yeah I did try my best to hide it.**The thing is, most of us are going around desperately pretending we're not as dorky as we feel. If we'd just admit it and get and give support this would be different world. Instead we torment those who have the same shadow characteristics we deny in ourselves.
When I'm feeling tired and wired I become super sensitive and irritable. When I'm dysthymic and lethargic I either couldn't give a rip or else don't have enough energy to notice anything outside my little world.
You're on the Alternative board so you must have also sought out alternative doctors and such to look into physical reasons. I'm aghast at how the majority of pdocs never consider physcial dysfunctions - hormonal imbalances, gut dysbiosis, viruses, allergies. They rarely if ever look below the neck.
I also have fibromyalgia which could be separate or part of the whole package, but it put me hot on the trail to find out what was going on with me. I'm finally starting to get better and alot of it was how I was asimilating hormones, including thyroid, even though my TSH values cames back OK. It's been piece by piece detective work but I definitely had physical things going on that weren't obvious. As I clear them up my mood disorders are resolving also.
Point is, your mood issues could be symptoms of an underlying health issue that we both know won't get addressed by the typical physician or pdoc. I've had the best results from naturopaths, but they're not perfect either.
>
> BTW how did you know I can't dance?**Cause you have to be present in your body. From what you describe it sounds like your energy is rising too fast up and out the top which would acount for the upper body tension and probably neck tightness and headaches. Doing something that brought the energy back down, like walking or anything that emphasized balance and coordination would help ground that energy leak. So would breathing slow and deep into the lower belly. You probably breath high into your upper chest. That's going to both cause anxiety and leave you exhausted.
> >
> I was thinking of asking to try something else. Not that I don't like ambien but am worried about tolerance after taking it every night for a long time.**Well, I took it for 3 years straight and it worked fine. Only took about 1 week of rebound insomnia to get off it. I still take it when I can't get to sleep. The complaints I've heard about Sonata is that it's like Ambien but wears of in 3-4 hours so you're likely to wake up too early. And forget Lunesta unless you like the taste of old pennies in your mouth all day long.
>
> > >
> The Codex thing worries me, the medical marijuana debacle showed me this administration doesn't give a hoot about people's suffering or rights. That's another topic for another board though I guess.
>
> Amen, brother. Probably a good thing there isn't a Politics board on this site or I'd be spending too much time over there ranting and raving. Actually, I've pretty much just given it over regarding politics. It's enough to work on myself. I can't take on a corrupt and inept government. Cheerio! - Barbara
Posted by Zillah on October 13, 2005, at 11:33:46
In reply to Tyrosine vs. Phenylalanine experiences?, posted by barbaracat on September 25, 2005, at 17:14:39
Please excuse me for barging in... I stumbled across this thread while researching the effects of phenylalanine and tyrosine supplementation on depression.
Your descriptions of your mental/emotional states and responses to medications resonate thoroughly with my own experiences: anhedonia, fatigue, lack of motivation, (very) poor response to SSRIs, problems with attention, disordered sleep, social anxiety.
I've tried Prozac, amitriptyline, Serzone (awful!), Wellbutrin, 5HTP, St. John's Wort, and a myriad of vitamin/mineral supplements. The only thing that has helped me is Wellbutrin.
I've been on Wellbutrin for the past 4 years, but it just isn't working anymore. I feel keyed up and anxious all the time but still apathetic, unfocused, and exhausted. I only recently started researching other substances that work on the dopamine pathway... I'd never heard of macuna.
Are there other medications or supplements you would recommend? I'm currently thinking of talking to my doctor about methylphenidate, selegiline, and/or pramipexole. Any experience with these? What about desipramine or tianeptine?
Thank you,
Zillah
Posted by barbaracat on October 13, 2005, at 18:19:58
In reply to Re: Tyrosine vs. Phenylalanine experiences?, posted by Zillah on October 13, 2005, at 11:33:46
Welcome, Zillah. Sorry you're having a poop out to Wellbutrin. I could not tolerate it, although my husband is thriving on it. Our depressions are very different, his lethargic, mine agitated.
I would give macuna a try. All other meds seem to eventually diminish in effect and any other med, such as Selegin or deprenyl, amphetamines, etc. that work on dopamine pathways seem to eventually deplete stores. I've found macuna to be very pleasant with no speediness and gives me an alert yet calm feeling. You can get it at www.herbal-powers.com. Good luck! BarbaraCat
> Please excuse me for barging in... I stumbled across this thread while researching the effects of phenylalanine and tyrosine supplementation on depression.
>
> Your descriptions of your mental/emotional states and responses to medications resonate thoroughly with my own experiences: anhedonia, fatigue, lack of motivation, (very) poor response to SSRIs, problems with attention, disordered sleep, social anxiety.
>
> I've tried Prozac, amitriptyline, Serzone (awful!), Wellbutrin, 5HTP, St. John's Wort, and a myriad of vitamin/mineral supplements. The only thing that has helped me is Wellbutrin.
>
> I've been on Wellbutrin for the past 4 years, but it just isn't working anymore. I feel keyed up and anxious all the time but still apathetic, unfocused, and exhausted. I only recently started researching other substances that work on the dopamine pathway... I'd never heard of macuna.
>
> Are there other medications or supplements you would recommend? I'm currently thinking of talking to my doctor about methylphenidate, selegiline, and/or pramipexole. Any experience with these? What about desipramine or tianeptine?
>
> Thank you,
> Zillah
>
>
Posted by Declan on October 13, 2005, at 19:34:44
In reply to Re: Tyrosine vs. Phenylalanine experiences? » Zillah, posted by barbaracat on October 13, 2005, at 18:19:58
Why not try low dose Parnate? No side effects to speak of. Insomnia's Ok if you take it on awakening. I take 10mg. Kinda like deprenyl with added warmth, but mild.
Declan
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