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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 5:52:19
In reply to A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 16, 2006, at 22:23:30
Isn't turmeric a cox2 inhibitor, I dont mind having a hot curry with lots of turmeric added
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 6:09:01
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by kiwiredbeach on November 17, 2006, at 5:52:19
Yes apparently Turmeric is, or Circumin its active ingredient. However I have not been able to obtain any extract here yet and the amount used to obtain any kind of benefit in rat studies to me seems excessive - they use like 200 mgs per kg, which for me would end up being about 10grams - not nice.
I used to eat HEAPS of curry though with lots of tumeric and it never made a bit of difference.
Quercetin is SO powerful as a COX2 inhibitor so I just use that. I know it works because I had a botched tooth extraction that has left me with part of a tooth still embedded. Every few weeks it becomes inflamed and sore and gives me the worst headache. I used to take ibuprofen with codiene for it, and that would settle it down.
That's how I got onto Qercetin researching for a better way to manage that inflammation. It works BETTER than ibuprofen/Codeine for that.In animal experiments Quercetin has been found to be more potent as a COX2 than Celebrex and Vioxx. The pharmaceutical establishment DEFINITLEY does not want people to know about Quercetin... they are studying it to try develop a synthetic analog that they can sell for hundreds of dollars a bottle. I've seen the studies and it has shown 95% efficacy in treating various cancers, blood pressure problems, hayfever, etc etc. No ones really caught on that it is also a powerful MAOI and COMT inhibitor yet though, except in out of the way places on the net like here.
Rambling again! Sorry.
Posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 6:53:06
In reply to A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 16, 2006, at 22:23:30
You offered to post more detailed info if anyone was interested. Yes, you have my interest.
Specifically though I am interested in the various compounds.
Quercetin...what is it.
GLA...what is it.
DHEA...I've tried it before and got stunningly depressed on it, why was that?Say for example someone stuck on prozac longterm, similar to you being stuck on maoi longterm, went out and bought all this stuff and started taking it at perhaps half dose at first to get started...what kind of side effects would you expect?
And how long is the lag time before it starts to really work?
How is your sleep?
How is your sex life? Desire? Ability?
And anything else you would like to share.
You are very kind to share and I am so thankful you have been blessed after all your rocky roads and determination.
> Hi
>
> I'm new to posting here, though I've read the boards for years. Thought I'd start posting, dunno why maybe its because I'm finally feeling better?
>
> I've suffered from depression since age 20 now 32, at times its been bad, real bad. I have a diagnosis of BP II because of a couple of manic episodes which were caused by meds. MOst of the time though I'm just massively dysthymic, anhedonic and I just drag myself through each day.
>
> I have severe bad reactions to SSRI's and both times it was a different SSRI. I am mad keen on natural treatments and have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to kick this thing with them.
>
> Now I am on Parnate 40mg and I have never felt so good! I am also taking high doses of Quercetin and 3000 mg day, 2000mg Folic Acid, 30mg DHEA, 500mg GLA, 1000 mg EPA, Acetyl l-carntine 1gram (I'd take more but its so damn expensive) and Deprenyl 5mg /week or so.
>
> My theory on depression has evolved over the years and now I think I am getting close.
>
> Central is the role of prostaglandins series 1 and 2. I have observed my depression for years and tried to equate the bodily and mental sensation of it to likely chemicals and processes. I have tried targeting only neurotransmitters but this is a band aid approach in my view and often leads to more trouble than its worth.
>
> Also I have in the past thought it could be hormones but this lead to a dead end and no improvement. Of course I've attempted to fix any "deficiencies" both minral and vitamin, taken all kinds of herbs, tried all kinds of mind tricks and therapies etc etc.
>
> Now though I am focussed on Prostaglandins because they fit the feeling of depression. Prostaglandins do not really migrate around, they just sit in the cells and this matches what my depression feels like, it just sits there, does not move, does not flow with the blood, and definitely does NOT emanate from the brain. It is a whole body sensation.
>
> I take the quercetin to knock out COX2 so therefore stop production of the EVIL series 2 prostaglandins. These are the ones that make you feel real bad. Quercetin is a potent COX2 inhibitor, in fact more powerful in high doses than Vioxx, and also is a bit of a mood stabiliser, and MAOI of uncertain strength.
>
> Then I take GLA and EPA to increase series 1 prostaglandins.
>
> The Parnate is because I am addicted to the feeling of being high on neurotransmitters though it does not really help the depression, just masks it. I don't think I'll ever stop that stuff, unless I can find an equally effective natural MAOI.
>
> I know some of you have tried fish oil, GLA etc but the key is having them both in high quality and inhibiting the COX2 enzyme at the same time.
>
> If you just increase series 1 prostaglandins with GLA and EPA you will not feel great because the series 2 being generated by COX2 overrides them (think of when you have a toothache!@ You can go from fine to miserable in half a day - even non-depressives!).
>
> If anyone's interested I can post more detailed analysis of my theories.
>
> Anyway this is getting pretty long winded... just thought I'd make myself known and it sure feels good to be participating.
>
> aeon
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:02:37
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 6:53:06
> You offered to post more detailed info if anyone was interested. Yes, you have my interest.
>
> Specifically though I am interested in the various compounds.
>
> Quercetin...what is it.
> GLA...what is it.
> DHEA...I've tried it before and got stunningly depressed on it, why was that?
>
> Say for example someone stuck on prozac longterm, similar to you being stuck on maoi longterm, went out and bought all this stuff and started taking it at perhaps half dose at first to get started...what kind of side effects would you expect?
>
> And how long is the lag time before it starts to really work?
>
> How is your sleep?
>
> How is your sex life? Desire? Ability?
>
> And anything else you would like to share.
>
> You are very kind to share and I am so thankful you have been blessed after all your rocky roads and determination.
>
Hi. I'm happy to share as much as I can.Quercetin is a flavanoid. Very potent antioxidant present in apples and other fruits and herbs. It may be the reason why St Joh's Work helps some people as it is present in small quantities, and is an MAOI and COMT inhibitor.
You can get it from most health shops or online and it is not expensive.
GLA = Gamma Linoleic Acid, a unique fatty acid of the Omega 6 series that is present only in Evening PRimrose Oil,(10%) Borage Oil (24%) and Blackcurrant Oil (15%). From GLA the body makes DGLA (present ONLY in mother's milk) and then series 1 Prostaglandins.
DHEA I take for antiaging purposes, and to improve sex life, muscle tone etc. It is NOT an essential component of an anti depression plan, though I have found it can counteract some of the negative sexual effects of ADs. Don't recommend if you are a woman - use progesterone cream instead.
I would say go ahead and try this plan if you're stuck on PRozac. Include a hefty dose of Folic Acid also as it will make prozac work better. DON"T stop the AD's in favour of this! (I am not a doctor so yadadayada)
None of these things will interefer with Przac, in fact you may find you get a chemical rush out of the Prozac and start enjoying it for what it is - a temporary mood lifter.
Lag time depends on how aggressive you are. I notice a decrease in inflammation, a calmness and energy from Quercetin within two hours. GLA and EPA take some time to build up.
Sleep is great, not excessive, restful, no probs with insomnia. Sex life = good too.
Hope that helps.aeon
Posted by teejay on November 17, 2006, at 13:16:01
In reply to A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 16, 2006, at 22:23:30
Hi there and welcome to the board! Nice to have another knowledgable 'face' around here.
I'm not sure if I've tried Quercetin or not, but wouldnt mind giving your regime (or at least parts of it) a try.
I was going to go with the Q along with some borage oil and fish oil but not the rest. Does that sound a cost effective way of getting some sort of results?
I've looked at a few Q products and reckon the FSC one for around £9 looks good value unless you would specifically recommend any of the others?
http://www.yourhealthfoodstore.co.uk/search_results.php?keywords=quercetin&brand_ID=-1
TJ
Posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 13:36:37
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by teejay on November 17, 2006, at 13:16:01
Quercetin is not very soluble in water? Quercetin chalcone is, but is expensive.
Quercetin is also good for allergies, and maybe for arthritis too. I know that there a formulations for arthritis that contain curcumin and boswellia which worked for me.
Posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 17:33:54
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 8:02:37
I appreciate all this information you have. I've been through countless trials of supplements, all of which either didn't do anything, made me worse, or pooped out fast. If you don't mind, here are more questions.What are prostaglandins? What do they do? How do they cause or cure depression?
How does quercetin being a flavanoid and antioxidant affect depression?
What are the times of the day that you take your supplements?
For fish oil, why just EPA? Why not DHA also or DHA alone?
Probably the best I've felt in years was in 2005 when I was taking 20mg prozac+5mg zyprexa+600mg st johns wort. But the st johns wort pooped out. The combo was fairly good but nowhere near remission. The other meds are still going but barely. I've just been on them so long that risking a change in dose in the bad condition I'm in would be treacherous.
Thanks Aeon.
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 18:46:03
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 17:33:54
Hi Blueberry
Prostaglandins are compounds that are derived from fatty acids. They are essentially hormones. The study of prostaglandins is nowhere near as advanced as other compounds though that is changing.
I won't get all scientific and technical, but essentially they modulate your state of "wellness". They are the link between the immune system - which has no specific signalling molecule, and the rest of the body, particularly the brain.
When the body is in a state of inflammation, or perceives itself to be, prostaglandins of the series 2 are released. These have wide and varied effects, but basically they are what signals your brain that "Something is wrong". They amplify pain messages, make you feel unwell, make you cry if that is how your brain responds, and generally make you feel like sh*t. It is prostaglandins that give people miserable feelings when they have a flu, prostaglandins that make women with PMS feel like sh*t, prostaglandins that intitate baby blues, and prostaglandins that are making you depressed right now (not serotonin, NE, or DA - sorry that is your brains RESPONSE to the chronically high levels of prostaglandin series 2 in your body.
There are three types of Prostaglandins (PGE's) 1,2, 3.
Series 1 and 3 are good guys and are beneficial. The more of these floating around the more well you will feel, because the brain and body respond to them with positive get aup and go, happy chemicals. PGE 2's on the other hand signal your body and brain that you are unwell and initiate sickness behaviours.
When you take prozac you are trying to trick the brain to make you feel well even though it knows you are not because of the low levels of PGE1,3 and out of control PGE2's.
All prostaglandins are made from fatty acids,. Series 1 from GLA, series 2 from Arachidonic Acid, and Series 3 from EPA (The fraction of fish oil we are concerned about)
EPA also interrupts the conversion of GLA to Arachidonic Acid.
Quercetin is an antioxidant but that is not what I use it for. It inhibits POTENTLY the enzyme COX 2 (Cyclo-oxegenase 2) which is what tells your cells to produce more PGE 2's in the first place. It is the inflammation enzyme.DHA will not do the job. It is an end product of the Omega 6 series of fatty acids. It is heathful, but does not create prostaglandins. Look for the highest EPA Pharmaceutical grade fish oil you can find.
Basically my theory is that depression is an illnes of inflammation, and that this is happening to us because our natural oil balance has been disrupted, and we are genetically sucpetible to that. Others might get arthritis, heart disease, whatever.
With supplements people tend to take them because they heard that this or that is good for this or that problem. I am not suggesting that. The three prongs here are 1. Stop inflammation
2. Suplly the body with what it needs to create good feelings.
3. Limit the amount of bad fats that get converted to Arachidonic Acid and then PGE2's.Try this: Go and lie down for ten minutes and FEEL your body. You will feel what I am talking about. It is in distress, it feels unwell. Depression goes right down to your toes, it is not in the mind. Every cell in your body is pumping out these prostaglandins so you will stay in your "cave" and get well.
Cheers
Aeon
Posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 20:41:57
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 17:33:54
Blueberry
Are you taking folic acid? If not you coluld try taking 2mg a day, that has been proven to increase effectiveness of prozac. I love it makes meds do what they should. After all that time maxing out your neurotransmitters your nerves are fried and need some strong support.
Cheers
Posted by Mistermindmasta on November 17, 2006, at 21:58:48
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 18:46:03
id just like to add here that most theories of depression nowadays DO point towards the idea that it is an inflammatory disorder - apparently quite a common one.
but yes, it does seem that an appropriate antiinflammatory combo could stop the depression.
point of my post - aeon's thoughts probably have some logic to them.
Posted by foglady on November 18, 2006, at 3:22:57
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 20:41:57
aeon,
I found this thread really interesting and decided to give Quercetin a try. How much time after taking a 500mg dose would you expect to wait for the inflammation/pain-relief to take affect?
thanks,
foglady
Posted by aeon on November 18, 2006, at 5:19:32
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by foglady on November 18, 2006, at 3:22:57
> aeon,
>
> I found this thread really interesting and decided to give Quercetin a try. How much time after taking a 500mg dose would you expect to wait for the inflammation/pain-relief to take affect?
>
> thanks,
> fogladyHi
I take alot more than 500mg, actually 3000mg a day in two doses. I would say try at least 1000mg and you should notice it in about two hours. Usually QUercetin tabs are tightly packed and I think they are absorbed in the small intestine so it takes a bit longer.
Last night my partner had a headache and I gave her two and she slept like a baby and woke up feeling fine.
For depression though you need to follow the other steps I have briefly outlined (ie: GLA and EPA) as well to feel better, Quercetin won't do the job on its own.
Obligatory warning: If you are taking an MAOI or other drugs you should take care and consult your doctor before trying this I guess.
The good thing about Quercetin is it knocks COX2 on the head for about a day.
Let me know how it goes if you do try it!
aeon
Posted by madeline on November 19, 2006, at 10:58:21
In reply to A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 16, 2006, at 22:23:30
High doses of drugs that inhibit the COX-2 enzyme have been directly linked with an increased risk heart attack and stroke.
Just because a substance is naturally occurring does not mean that it is completely safe.
Before starting a regimen of Quercetin, please consider a trip to the doctor to see if this drug is right for you.
Pound for pound the best and safest anti-inflammatory out there is just simply aspirin. 325 mg a day, taken with food.
Maddie
Posted by tgo on November 19, 2006, at 20:33:28
In reply to A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 16, 2006, at 22:23:30
Aeon,
I believe I may have pyloria. One of the symptom of it is decreased levels of arachidonic acid (GLA is taken to supplement it). Would it be correct to assume that quercetin would deplete the arachidonic acid?
Posted by sregan on November 19, 2006, at 21:08:57
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 17, 2006, at 18:46:03
Welcome, I'm excited about your discussion of Prostaglandins. I've recently been looking into the Glucocorticoid side of depression/anxiety disorder. You've given me something new to study.
I'm glad you're here. Nothing speaks like experience with intelligence and you sound like you've got both. I'm sorry for your years of suffering and happy for your recovery.
Please stick around and share with us.
Shawn
Posted by aeon on November 20, 2006, at 4:48:06
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by tgo on November 19, 2006, at 20:33:28
Hi there
Theoretically yes you could reduce the arachidonic acid amounts further with Quercetin. I do not know of any studies that would support this, it is only from what I know of the pathways. However...
I do not believe that pyroluria is a valid scientific concept as it seems to be an idea promulgated by a couple of people with an interest in the "Krytopyrrole test" (a test you can only get from their labs - no doctor knows anything about it). The wikipedia article is written by a proponent of it and should not be trusted. with no studies or science to back it up. I would be wary of spending too much time chasing this (I sepnt a bucket load on the suggested supplements till I really researched it : TRY googling pyroluria myth, see what you can find.
Not to say it might not work for you but that's my two cents.
Posted by aeon on November 20, 2006, at 4:56:45
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by sregan on November 19, 2006, at 21:08:57
Cheers, thanks for your supporting words!
I too am very interested in Glucocorticoids - the reason I veered away from them is because it seems that you just cannot have variability - I mean people talk about being low in cortisol or high etc, but if that happens to any great extent you become really, physically sick (cushings, addisons etc) and they can easily test for it, not to mention all the other signs that show up.
Small fluctuations are normal though, and we all have these. It was once I realised that prostaglandins are one of the few pervasive compounds in the body that can fluctuate wildly without causing obvious "disease" (other than non specific inflammation reactions, that I thought - hey here's something really interesting.
Interestingly prostaglandins actually control to some extent the fluctuations in daily cortisol response - the link between the immune system , the hormonal system and the nervous.
I hope you do find time to research prostaglandins - i think you'll find it really interesting.
Cheers
aeon
Posted by tealady on November 20, 2006, at 5:41:57
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by teejay on November 17, 2006, at 13:16:01
Hiya TJ,
I forget but I think I get my quercetrin(or perhaps its another bioflavinoid?) from the white pith of oranges..I eat that as well as the orange .. just run teeth along inside the skin..tastes Ok..I actually enjoy it.
..at the time I was told about it (late last year) as I was coughing up blood?..
I did research quercetrin last year, or maybe a couple of years ago and wrote something on it.. will try to find it.. it wasn't related to prostagladins though (as I cant follow that)
I'll try to look around sometime soon and find it.
Sorry bad mamory (and its not on my blog to remind me:0)Just that, if it ois its probably a better way of gettiing quercetrin..that'sall
i think its in other foods too.. I'll come up with a list
works better too if takn with sufficient glutathione I think?sigh.. I need a memory
Posted by sregan on November 20, 2006, at 9:07:24
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 20, 2006, at 4:56:45
> I too am very interested in Glucocorticoids - the reason I veered away from them is because it seems that you just cannot have variability - I mean people talk about being low in cortisol or high etc, but if that happens to any great extent you become really, physically sick (cushings, addisons etc) and they can easily test for it, not to mention all the other signs that show up.
There are ailments like Adrenal Fatigue (a variant of CFS) that have documented stages of failure: http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html without being recognised by the docs. I suspect it's part of the same HPA/Hippocampal issue some folks with depression have dealt with.
I was very excited when I read about the "miracle" cures happening with RU486.
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2000/november8/ru486-1108.htmlI believe a couple of people here have tried but haven't heard any miracle stories yet.
For me the Glucorticoid theories were a way to get past the neurotransmitter methodology that I believed to be secondary to something else. Sounds like you've come to the same conclusion.
> Interestingly prostaglandins actually control to some extent the fluctuations in daily cortisol response - the link between the immune system , the hormonal system and the nervous.
>
> I hope you do find time to research prostaglandins - i think you'll find it really interesting.Most defintely. I did a little last night and noticed a few papers citing prostaglandins and nitric oxide which has been something else I've been looking into lately.
Shawn
Posted by foglady on November 24, 2006, at 11:24:02
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by sregan on November 20, 2006, at 9:07:24
> I was very excited when I read about the "miracle" cures happening with RU486.
> http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2000/november8/ru486-1108.htmlThis was a very interesting article. Thank you for posting it!
foglady
Posted by foglady on November 24, 2006, at 11:26:48
In reply to Please keep this in mind., posted by madeline on November 19, 2006, at 10:58:21
Hi Madeline,
> safest anti-inflammatory out there is just simply aspirin. 325 mg a day, taken with food.
I haven't taken aspirin in years, I switched to Advil because it was far more effective for me, especially for menstrual cramps etc. Is aspirin really anti-inflammatory, or does it just provide pain relief?
Interested,
foglady
Posted by Tomatheus on November 25, 2006, at 2:25:58
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 18, 2006, at 5:19:32
> I take alot more than 500mg, actually 3000mg a day in two doses. I would say try at least 1000mg and you should notice it in about two hours. Usually QUercetin tabs are tightly packed and I think they are absorbed in the small intestine so it takes a bit longer.
Aeon,
The information that you've provided in this thread has really piqued my interest. I appreciate all of the research that you've done into the relationship between prostaglandins and depression. It sounds like the symptoms and course of your disorder are similar to mine in a lot of respects, and I'm strongly considering following a treatment regimen that would be along the lines of what you've described.
I do, however, have a few questions for you...
1) What brand of quercetin do you take?
2) Do you think that a quercetin supplement with isoquercitin (quercetin-3-0-glucoside) would be any more potent than one without isoquercitin?
3) Which symptoms of your illness have you found quercetin to be the most effective at relieving? Do you find quercetin to be energizing, anxiety-reducing, or both?
4) Finally, what have you found to be the best sources of EPA and GLA?
I would greatly appreciate any response that you could provide. Thank you again for sharing the information that you've shared here so far. I've found it to be very helpful.
Tomatheus
Posted by aeon on November 26, 2006, at 17:39:34
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness! » aeon, posted by Tomatheus on November 25, 2006, at 2:25:58
1) What brand of quercetin do you take? Its a practitioner brand in australia called orthoplex.
2) Do you think that a quercetin supplement with isoquercitin (quercetin-3-0-glucoside) would be any more potent than one without isoquercitin? Yes, maybe. I think from memory this is the compound that is formed in first pass metabolism of quercetin, and is easier to absorb. I can't get any here though so can't tell you from experience.
3) Which symptoms of your illness have you found quercetin to be the most effective at relieving? Do you find quercetin to be energizing, anxiety-reducing, or both? Find it calming mostly. It seems to be a good mood stabiliser for me, and also stops my body from aching, and my tooth from swelling. In terms of mood though see my new thread about anandamide - this is better so far.
4. 4) Finally, what have you found to be the best sources of EPA and GLA? Nordic naturals makes a pharmaceutical grade high EPA fish oil with borage oil in also. Very nice. Sometimes I use cold pressed EPO which is quite cheap.
Quercetin has a 24 hr half life and a great deal of it is absorbed in the end of the small intestine so it acts for a fair amount of time.
Cheers
aeon
Posted by johnnyj on November 27, 2006, at 13:23:52
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 26, 2006, at 17:39:34
I am one of those people that has trouble with fish oil. It gives me some insomnia and worsens my mood. I am interested in Quercetin but don't know what it can do alone though.
Posted by Tomatheus on December 1, 2006, at 22:06:07
In reply to Re: A new experience - happiness!, posted by aeon on November 26, 2006, at 17:39:34
Aeon,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate the helpful information that you've provided.
Between quercetin, fish oil (including supplements with a high EPA-DHA ratio), and evening primrose oil, the only thing that seems to do anything for my depressive disorder is the evening primrose oil. If I take enough EPO (2,000-3,000 mg worth), I usually notice a moderate antidepressant response that lasts maybe 2-3 days before it fades away entirely. However, I think that it's also worth pointing out that my disorder is extremely treatment resistant (which is probably due to the fact that it includes both an atypical/anergic component and a melancholic/anxious component -- possibly caused by two separate biochemical abnormalities, if my suspicions are correct). My guess is that most individuals with classic cases of either melancholic depression or atypical depression will probably respond to supplements such as evening primrose oil, fish oil, and quercetin in a more consistent manner -- whether their response is positive, negative, or neutral.
With respect to the quercetin, I think that my non-response to it may be due to the fact that the supplement that I've been taking (the Vitamin World brand) just contains regular quercetin, as opposed to isoquercitrin (quercetin-3-0-glucoside). I'm considering ordering a quercetin supplement from Europe that purports to include isoquercitrin, a form of quercetin that (as you mentioned) is believed to be absorbed more efficiently by the small intestine than the regular form. I live in the U.S. and can't seem to find any quercetin products here that contain even a trace of isoquercitrin. Of course, it might be the case that I won't respond favorably (or at all, as the case seems to be) to any quercetin supplement, no matter how much I take and no matter what form it comes in. And considering that I'm currently trying a different treatment strategy, I won't be ordering the special European quercetin just yet -- if I even end up ordering it at all.
But if my current treatment strategy doesn't work out, I may give the isoquercitrin-containing quercetin supplement a try.
Thanks again for the information.
Tomatheus
> 1) What brand of quercetin do you take? Its a practitioner brand in australia called orthoplex.
>
> 2) Do you think that a quercetin supplement with isoquercitin (quercetin-3-0-glucoside) would be any more potent than one without isoquercitin? Yes, maybe. I think from memory this is the compound that is formed in first pass metabolism of quercetin, and is easier to absorb. I can't get any here though so can't tell you from experience.
>
> 3) Which symptoms of your illness have you found quercetin to be the most effective at relieving? Do you find quercetin to be energizing, anxiety-reducing, or both? Find it calming mostly. It seems to be a good mood stabiliser for me, and also stops my body from aching, and my tooth from swelling. In terms of mood though see my new thread about anandamide - this is better so far.
>
> 4. 4) Finally, what have you found to be the best sources of EPA and GLA? Nordic naturals makes a pharmaceutical grade high EPA fish oil with borage oil in also. Very nice. Sometimes I use cold pressed EPO which is quite cheap.
>
> Quercetin has a 24 hr half life and a great deal of it is absorbed in the end of the small intestine so it acts for a fair amount of time.
>
> Cheers
>
> aeon
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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