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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 23, 2006, at 18:45:31
I know that Sam-e is a a necessary compnent to have for the body to produce glutathione .. I am currently trying to raise my glutathione levels b/c I think I am defcient. I am doing this by taking B-12, NAC , Vitamin C, Pine Bark extract ( Pycengolol sp?), should probably take some glutamine also.. and have ordered some denatured whey protein.....supposedly that is one ay to boost your glutathione levels. '
I have had success for depression with SAm-e for a short window of time and it was great , but then pooped ou and i have tried it many times since with no results what so ever. After taking these supplements the SAM-e seems to maybe be working again.. . does anyone know why this might be happening ?
Does anyone know how glutathione effects neurotransmitters?
JB
Posted by aeon on November 23, 2006, at 22:02:35
In reply to Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by Jimmyboy on November 23, 2006, at 18:45:31
Hi
I don't know about S-ame - there seems to be so much disinfo about its effects and the methylation pathway is so complex that it is easy enough to implicate just about anything with it. From what I can read there is little real evidence that increasing S-ame will increase glutathione, it is a theoretical thing maybe. If someone could help me out with in vivo studies I am open to it. But if you are feeling better and can afford the stuff then maybe...
However in regards to Glutahione specifically you could probably get more bang for your buck by using R-Lipoic Acid instead. It specifically saves the glutahione you have from being used up quite so much.
B12, P5P (Pyridoxal 5-Phoispate an active form of B6, and super high doses of folic acid (in the realm of 5 mgs) would add nicely to the R-Lipoic Acid and pine bark. High doses of Folic acid are very stimulant-like - I have seen studies for its effects in ADHD symptoms in Fragile X syndrome and have been experimenting with them and won't go back to lower levels because I need the stimulation. I am hoping it will be my answer to my ADHD sxs in high enough doses. (talking 10-20mg day here).
Up to 8% of the population have been found to have C677-T Polymorphism which basically means they lack the enzyme to convert folic acid to active metabolites efficiently and need many times the normal dose of folates. This results in a cascade effect of elevated homocysteine, reduced glutathione, reduced dopamine and NE, depression, Bipolar, ADHD, heavy metal buildup, heart disease and diabetes etc etc. They respond very well to high doses of folic acid.
BTW The N-Acetyl Cysteine *could* result in elevated acetylcholine levels which makes ALOT of people feel depressed. I have recently cut out all "Acetyl" products and feel less grumpy and irritable as a result.
Anyway don't know if that helps but I am very interested in this so please let us know how you go with your glutahione and how you feel!!
Cheers
aeon
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 11:46:20
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by aeon on November 23, 2006, at 22:02:35
That sounds like a great idea, I think I will add in the R-Lipoic acid, folate and cut back or eliminate the NAC , and the SAM , and see how that goes..
Does vitamin C help with glutathione levels? Also I have heard milk thistle is helpful, have you heard this also.
Anyway, I will kep posting.. The last two days I have been more clear headed than I have in 6 months, I had literally been in a downward spiral that I truly felt I would nevr recover from and I have felt dramatically better, not 100 % but much better.. Anyway, thanks ofr the advice..JB
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:00:46
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by aeon on November 23, 2006, at 22:02:35
Aeon,
What do you think about the denatured protein supplement.. I have heard this is very good at building up glutathione levels.. do you think this is necessary also? Anyway, I ordered som off the net , so I guess I will see.
PS- NOt to beat a dead horse, but I got a SPECT scan a few weeks ago and there were little black spots in the imaging of my brain scattered everywhere and the doctor said it was where there was a lack of glutathione .. and like i said I have been suffereing from severe depression , this makes me think it is relevant to depression also..JB
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 24, 2006, at 12:13:54
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione?? » aeon, posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:00:46
Jimmyboy
Ive never known anyone to get a SPECT scan done before..wow and I thought I have had a few tests done. Can you tell me why you had one done, was it your idea or the docters. I would accept what the docter says..get those Gluthione levels up...and yes there is a link between sam-e and glutathione
Posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:52:30
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by kiwiredbeach on November 24, 2006, at 12:13:54
I went to a clinic called Environmental Health Center and met with probably the top doctor in the field of environmental health, Dr. William Rea, he ordered tons of tests including the SPECT, it was all pretty expensive , no very expensive, but I am sick of feeling so bad and am willing to do anything to get better..
His philosophy is that most depression is caused by brain abnormalities, but those abnormalities are caused by something, be it environmental toxins, allergies of some sort, latent viral or bacterial infections, yeast, etc etc etc.. anyway he agrees that depression is caused by brain problems, he just hinks the brain problems are a symptom of the real cause. I thought it was an intersting and logical way to look at it , instead of " we all have anti-depressant deficiencies" ... but hey who knows...
JB
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 13:08:24
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:52:30
Did he mention a history of chronic lyme's disease, or autoimmune diseases? Isn't an elevated sedimentation rate a sign of inflammation as mine is normal? Love Phillipa ps I think when it's up it's infection.
Posted by kiwiredbeach on November 24, 2006, at 15:13:29
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:52:30
Jimmy
I totaly agree with you, its best to learn if you have anything wrong with your body chemistry. Ive had heaps of tests done. I think my anxiety was due to significant malabsorbtion. I have tests to show im low on vitamins and minerals, and essential fatty acids. So now im taking extra vitamins and minerals plus fish oils.
Cheers kiwi
Posted by tealady on November 24, 2006, at 19:48:42
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by Jimmyboy on November 24, 2006, at 12:52:30
I agree with your doc too.
I was low on glutathione a over a couple of years ago and got my levels up.. mainly by food. My body now eats high glut foods when it wants em:)
I also responded really well to SAMe.. although I only ever tried one packet of them.. I tapered off during taking the packet. My packet was SAMe joint formula and I've mentioned it before on here somewhere I think.. the fastest lift out of depression I have had.
I did notice it a little after I ran out, even with tapering though.. but I was better than before i took the SAMe.
Quercetin (I think) works best too when Glutathione levels are normal.
I'll try to find some old gluathione posts.
It was somethimng that really helped ..I remember that much.
I did try some whey (a coiuple of jars ) at the time too to get glutathione levels up.. yes it works too..as I think does watermelon and strawberries(which I ate a lot of), and a few other foods I'll have to try to recall.
I know once my levels were up and I was feeling a lot better , but not perfect then I no longer craved the glutathione high foods.I found these old links which may help
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=3428.6&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroidukthen I wrote this somewhere around that time too
++++thenhttp://www.vrp.com/art/1783.asp?thenews=vn00a000b01005-1783
here's where it fits in with more vulnerable to damage by nitric oxide or peroxynitrite as well as the heart stuff
study authors, “These findings suggest that reduced plasma total glutathione levels are a risk factor for CVD, especially for cerebral small vessel disease.”Australian researchers established a similar link between glutathione and cardiovascular health.4 When the researchers caused a drop in glutathione levels in the mitochondria of cultured brain cells, the cells became more vulnerable to damage by nitric oxide or peroxynitrite.
--------------------------------now for the glutiathione stuff read this thread.
The link is
. Mercury interferes with sulfur bearing compounds throughout the body, and can interfere with the ability of the body to synthesize Glutathione.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040928/msgs/401517.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040928/msgs/400940.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041108/msgs/415903.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/411464.htmlwell read the whole thread around there...
it's where I formed ideas as to the antioxidant mix. before then I'd had a lot of trouble.. like too much CoQ10 actuially increased oxidation after a while.. bt that was with fish oil ..and the alpha only VitE form. Now I take the mixed tocopherols and a balance is needed...
Yes, it is all related to mitochondria.. and probably iron-sulfur.. remeber my dificulties getting ferritin up?
Lactoferrin helps :-)
Love and best wishes,
Jan
-------------------
and I wrote thishttp://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=3428.8&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroiduk
**
http://www.cfsn.com/detox.html
http://www.cfsn.com/secure.html#anchor5482706
interesting stuff...seems to fit me too...on vitamin C and glutathione* especially after the previous reaction with an amalgam removal... craved glutathione foods when in England last year and for months around then.. getting better this year
but then I needed ......VitC..and a lot of it too!
Just reached tolerance in last couple of days(after an amalgam removal done without any precautions..typical! any Aussies know any good dentists??) , and also after shingles.. just recovering from, and a previous episode of coughing up some blood..and small lumps of tissue felt like from throat(orange pith helped!!.. thanks Bob : ).. backing off slowly.. but looks like I may need a minimal level of say 1/8 teaspoon.. 500mg twice a day?
http://www.cfsn.com/histidine.html
"L-histidine is essential in forming many metal bearing enzymes and compounds, examples being the antioxidant super oxide dismutase, the iron storage protein ferritin, the iron uptake regulation protein -FUR, the copper storage and iron metabolism cofactor cerulplasmin, red blood cell hemoglobin, the toxic metal storage protein metallothionein, and the cysteine regulating enzyme cysteine dioxygenase - to name but a few important enzymes dependent on L-histidine being available for formation and function."
(I can't remember if I mentioned this or not, ) You can see where ferritin comes in...
and Larrian was talking about this histamine/histidine somewhere to me too...
Jan
---------------------and also this
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=3428.9&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroiduk
Bad luck about reality and expectations not meeting re the hospital. Did they test anything? Sent you some emails.
What I've had great improvement with is orange piths(that's the white bit under the skin), especially not the navel ones but the more bitter kind are helpful. Marmalade jam is probably helpful in this way too .
also glutathione foods.. like strawberries, watermelon (I love the juice).. wheatgerm should fit in here too (if you aren't on a gluten free thing), avocodao (I just use a litle instead of butter.. unless its with amarmalade jam Of course!Tastes great with say a staek sandwich or a hamburger though)
List of foods frm somewhere.. I'm unable to find a list of specified meaured typical food glutathione content.. I don't thik it's beeed done as yet!
Here's some they have found glutathione in though
asparagus, watermelon (excellent source), potato, strawberries, oranges,tomato, broccoli, peaches ... all of these I love, except asparagus.. which I have to try when I remebmer what to do to make them taste good?
grapefruit, (wary of as it inhibits that liver enymze so don't over do it).. bitter oranges are supposed to do the same. It may the method of increasing glutathione.. by slowing down liver to allow more glutathione left for other stuff? .. or maybe they increase glutathione in another manner as well ?
zucchini, and spinach (be wary of too much spinach re nitrates.. I've done that one..documented on thyroid forum)
acorn squash,acorn squash, okra, .. well they must be US foods as I've never heardof em
Now do you want any more ideas, or do you already think I'm mad enough:-)
------------------I think the white pith of a more bitter orange contains quercetin? ..or at least its high in flavanoids (of which quercetin is one)..and it works better if glutathione levels are up.. so best if take both together :)
--------------not sure if this helps at all, hope its not too dispointed, but glutathione foods and the orange piths seemed to help me
I don't seem to have time to loo at this again at present, but I continue to eat starbwerries, and oranges including the piths . My oranges aren't the sweet californian ones(APPARENTLY THEY DONT WORK SO WELL)..they are the more bitter valencia? I think? onesI you feel , "gee I'm sick of XXX",then your levels are up to normal and you can back off...
Posted by tealady on November 24, 2006, at 19:52:56
In reply to Re: Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione?? » Jimmyboy, posted by tealady on November 24, 2006, at 19:48:42
comglomeration of a lot of posts !
I see now a few bits I should have deleted!
just pick out any relevant bits. I didnt have time for a rewrite..takes me a real long time these days :)
Posted by circusboy on November 24, 2006, at 22:31:37
In reply to Is there a connection - SAM-e -- Glutathione??, posted by Jimmyboy on November 23, 2006, at 18:45:31
It's possible that the SAMe pooped out 'cause you were having trouble re-methlyating homocysteine -- which results from SAMe doing its job -- back into methionine. B12 supplementation would resolve this, by providing a missing link in the cycle.
One of Larry Hoover's old posts goes into excellent detail about this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/278173.htmlI take a methylcobalamin lozenge several times a week for this reason, as insurance.
(I'm completely ignorant about any sort of glutathione connection, unfortunately :)).
-cb
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