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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by orthomole on May 26, 2010, at 22:43:02
In reply to Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 26, 2010, at 21:36:16
i was simmering raw cloves in with the enema coffee. however, i've discontinued the garlic/coffee enemas at the advice of my orthomolecular nurse practitioner. am now taking about 16 grams of fish oil and 4.5 grams l-tyrosine. will report.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 27, 2010, at 14:16:55
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 26, 2010, at 22:43:02
Wow! 16 grams of fish oil? What is this much fish oil supposed to help with? I'm curious to hear your answer. I do take fish oil, but a very tiny amount each night before bedtime. I can't seem to tolerate large doses, but is my thinking correct? Will your body eventually get used to such a large dose? I thought about taking more, but was afraid I was doing the wrong thing, that high dose fish oil wouldn't help my condition. I am schizophrenic/bipolar with a tendency toward depressive symptoms, not mania. I never thought high doses of fish oil ever helped me. Was I not giving it enough time? The only thing high-dose that I seem to tolerate well is vitamin B6 and magnesium. The magnesium and calcium have a gone a long way in helping my depression. Did you ever experiment with high doses of fish oil, and did it help you over time? Thanks for your reply.
Posted by bleauberry on May 27, 2010, at 15:48:21
In reply to Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 26, 2010, at 21:36:16
In my hundreds of trials of meds, herbs, and supplements, I think garlic has to be one of the top 2 or 3 for rapid assistance in mood. I suspect it is due to a combination of various mechanisms, includingd antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasite, helps to excrete toxic metals, helps to regulate immune function, assists liver function, and a multitude of things. All of these have a direct impact on mood by removing the stuff within us that clogs receptors, disrupts enzymes, contaminates neurotransmitters, on and on.
The smelly stuff is the good stuff. The best ones are brands that are enteric coated tablets, so they unleash their power right in the intestines instead of being chewed up in the stomach.
The best I've tried is made by Dr Zhang, the chinese lyme MD. It was not however enteric. Searching for an enteric, I noticed NOW brands has one. They are a good brand.
Posted by orthomole on May 27, 2010, at 22:56:34
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 27, 2010, at 14:16:55
I'm told fish oil plays a role in the generation of catecholamines such as dopamine and norepinephrine. I know it has other benefits as well. Lately, i've been suicidally depressed, on and off by the day. Less so these last two days.
The 8-16 grams fish oil was prescribed by my self-proclaimed orthomolecular nurse practitioner in addition to 500 mg niacin t.i.d., 50 mg P-5-P, B complex, 3 g vitamin C, 400 mcg folinic acid, 50 mg zinc (as picolinate), 2 mg copper, and 1.5 g l-tyrosine t.i.d.. Relatively standard Hoffer (Abram, M.D.) protocol.
As an aside, the fish oil I'm taking is GNC Triple Strength with around 650 mg EPA and 250 mg DHA per capsule. I was prescribed Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega (which has more DHA than the GNC brand) but haven't been able to get my hands on any yet. I believe the important thing is that the EPA and DHA are at concentrated amounts per capsule. Many one-gram fish oil capsules hover around 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 28, 2010, at 10:23:19
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 27, 2010, at 22:56:34
I really hope this regimen helps you feel better. Is your depression lifting at all with this new regimen? Too soon to tell? How is your calcium:magnesium levels? My depression has lifted a great deal since I balanced my levels. I take 550mg of magnesium citrate and 500mg of chelated calcium all at bedtime, and my depression the following day is much better. Does your orthomolecular doctor say anything about the validity of calcium and magnesium levels? Have you tried this before? What about lithium? It is a life-saver for suicidal depression. Are you opposed to meds? Anyway, hope you feel better and hope this new regimen works out for you.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 28, 2010, at 10:29:15
In reply to Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 26, 2010, at 21:36:16
For me, half the battle in treating my depression seems to be in lowering my histamine levels. The other half is in treating neurotransmitters. For some people, raising histamine will help, but how can you tell which one you are, histadelic or histapenic? What about pyroluria as well on top of histamine imbalances? I believe depression involves multiple errors, not just one particular imbalance. What do you think?
Posted by janejane on May 28, 2010, at 12:12:38
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 27, 2010, at 22:56:34
Maybe this should be in a new thread, but could you tell me more about how you found your orthomolecular nurse practitioner? Does insurance cover any of it?
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 28, 2010, at 12:56:20
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular » orthomole, posted by janejane on May 28, 2010, at 12:12:38
I'm sure you already know this, if you have low histamine, folic acid and Niacin are good choices to take, but as for myself, I can't tolerate them very well. Instead, I do better with B1, B2, and B6 since I am high histamine. Do you take histamine levels into consideration for depression or do you dismiss that theory?
Posted by orthomole on May 28, 2010, at 15:45:38
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood to orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 28, 2010, at 10:23:19
I have felt somewhat better since starting. I am told I will have a better idea in about two weeks.
I was taking magnesium malate at anywhere from 400 to 800 mg per day for quite a while and didn't notice much of an effect on how I felt. I haven't asked my NP about calcium and magnesium yet and he hasn't said anything to me.
Prior to starting the coffee enemas, I had been taking lithium carbonate at 300 mg without much benefit.
I don't believe drugs have ever been very helpful for my feeling terribly, but am currently taking 200 mg lamotrigine and 15 mg Saphris at the insistence of my parents.
I would not be surprised if histamine had something to do with feeling terribly. I do not know how to tell whether a person is high or low short of identifying which vitamins help and which do not when provided in relatively large quantities.
I haven't been tested for pylouria but would not be surprised to learn that it was contributing as supplementing with pyridoxine at 1000 mg per day in addition to other nutrients made me feel less terribly for about a month.
I think feeling terribly is caused by a whole host of errors in metabolism. I hope I am getting closer to resolving all of mine, but fear that more will emerge as this process unfolds.
And janejane, I found him at http://orthomolecular.org/resources/pract.shtml. Blue Cross does not cover my particular provider.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 11:56:14
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood to orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 28, 2010, at 15:45:38
Yes, I also take 200mg of Lamictal per day. It does help somewhat. What is Saphris? I've never heard of it. Is it an AD? I am glad you are feeling somewhat better. I find that just taking magnesium is not enough. You need to take, at least, an equal amount of a chelated form of calcium to have an effect on the depression. I am suspecting that just balancing your calcium/magnesium is not going to help you all that much. I hope that you and your NP discover the underlying causes of your depression. I always say depression can be multi-faceted in many cases.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 12:10:40
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 27, 2010, at 22:56:34
Have you thought of adding Vitamin E, vitamin B1, and selenium to your regimen? These three have had a big impact on my depression. I need 600IU of E per day (200 in the morning and 400 at bedtime), 200mg of B1 per day, and at least, 100mcg of selenium per day (50mcg twice per day). Just a thought. Don't know if it would help. Also, do you think it might be a problem with your dopamine pathways? No way to know for sure, but just thought I'd add that.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 12:23:52
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 12:10:40
Dopamine pathways can underlie depression in some people. That's why I take an antipsychotic and I also smoke, both of which affect my depression via dopamine pathways. However, I don't condone smoking. It's terrible for you. I had asked my psych about using Wellbutrin SR which can help some people who have dopamine problems instead of serotonin problems. I know this is not Alternative, but just wanted to add to what I previously said about dopamine pathways.
Posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 12:47:52
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 29, 2010, at 12:10:40
I have taken varying, relatively large amounts of B1, E and selenium over the past five months (along with virtually every other vitamin and mineral). I didn't notice much of an impact, certainly nothing like the near-immediate impact on my feeling terribly from those three as i did with niacin, B6 and now fish oil.
The reason for the megadose fish oil and l-tyrosine supplementation is ostensibly to increase production of the catecholamines, including dopamine.
Posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 19:27:32
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 12:47:52
I may as well mention that, as I continue to suspect candida as a culprit in my feeling terribly, I have resumed garlic in the form of a clove or two of raw garlic thoroughly chewed and swallowed once or twice per day. I have added a probiotic (Sedona Labs iFlora) to the mix as well.
Posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 19:32:06
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 19:27:32
Saphris is an antipsychotic.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 30, 2010, at 13:02:44
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 29, 2010, at 12:47:52
Well, at least you understand some supplements that DO help your condition. Possible histapenia and pyroluria with a deficiency in fatty acids?? How long have you treated for Candida or overgrowth of bacteria? I'm thinking of using probiotics as well, but I don't know how to do it or what specific strains to use. Any suggestions?
Posted by orthomole on May 30, 2010, at 17:57:23
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 30, 2010, at 13:02:44
I've only been chewing up garlic cloves these last two days. I found a probiotic on Amazon that is highly rated, and contains 16 different strains of bacteria, called iFlora. Seemed reasonable.
Posted by Lao Tzu on May 31, 2010, at 13:26:46
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 30, 2010, at 17:57:23
Thanks for the info. How have you been feeling these past few days? Fair or good? Is the new regimen helping you with the suicidal ideation? I hope so.
Posted by orthomole on May 31, 2010, at 14:44:09
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by Lao Tzu on May 31, 2010, at 13:26:46
After a couple days of feeling better, I have been feeling terribly on-and-off these past few days.
Posted by rovers95 on June 1, 2010, at 19:42:54
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by bleauberry on May 27, 2010, at 15:48:21
> In my hundreds of trials of meds, herbs, and supplements, I think garlic has to be one of the top 2 or 3 for rapid assistance in mood. I suspect it is due to a combination of various mechanisms, includingd antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasite, helps to excrete toxic metals, helps to regulate immune function, assists liver function, and a multitude of things. All of these have a direct impact on mood by removing the stuff within us that clogs receptors, disrupts enzymes, contaminates neurotransmitters, on and on.
>Hey bleauberry, really like reading your posts on here and was just wondering, alongside garlic what would else you include in say your top 3 (or maybe even 5!)mood boosters?
> The smelly stuff is the good stuff. The best ones are brands that are enteric coated tablets, so they unleash their power right in the intestines instead of being chewed up in the stomach.
>
> The best I've tried is made by Dr Zhang, the chinese lyme MD. It was not however enteric. Searching for an enteric, I noticed NOW brands has one. They are a good brand.Do you still use and if so, what sort of dosages do you take?
regards
Tom
Posted by bleauberry on June 2, 2010, at 18:11:39
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular » bleauberry, posted by rovers95 on June 1, 2010, at 19:42:54
>
> Hey bleauberry, really like reading your posts on here and was just wondering, alongside garlic what would else you include in say your top 3 (or maybe even 5!)mood boosters?Hey thanks! It's great talking with you too.
Top mood boosters? Geez, if I knew that, I would be rich. It varies so much from person to person, depending on what the underlying root cause of their mood disorder is. It could be anything from an unsuspected chronic infection to heavy metals to a genetic flaw in metabolizing nutrients or flaws in methylation or flaws in fatty acids or actual brain damage from any of the above. Tough to guess. Many can be easily tested, but hardly anyone does that.
In my early days St Johns Wort (either the cheap WalMart Spring Valley brand or the clinical Kira brand, both were great) along with a tiny bit of 5htp, well that was the best it ever was. It worked awesome and fast. A stupid psychiatrist took me off and I was never the same after that, and they didn't work on a second try.
I could name off a bunch of naturals that have either scientific or anecdotal evidence as mood boosters. Some you've heard of, some you haven't, and some you probably did not know had the ability to lift mood. Licorice for example is not known as an antidepressant, but for anyone with adrenal exhaustion and in need of a little bit of a MAO inhibition, it's a good one. A good infection fighter too. There are so many medicinal plants.
Ok, so in a hypothetical example a best friend is depressed, knows I have a lot of experience with that illness, he/she does not want to see a doctor but asks me my opinion on the top 5 things they should try. These are what would be on that list:
Rhodiola rosea.
SAMe.
St Johns Wort.
DLPA.
5htp.
With the likelihood of combining small doses of two of them if one was ok but not good enough.For meds, my top choices are:
Prozac+Ritalin
Prozac+Zyprexa
Parnate
Nardil
Zoloft+Nortriptyline>
> Do you still use and if so, what sort of dosages do you take?I just bought another brand at Whole Foods and haven't tried it yet. It is enteric coated and equal to 4 cloves. Too much other stuff going on right now and I don't want to confuse things. Garlic is the next add-on though. My dose will be whatever I can take up to the point of it wreaking through my skin, at which point I will back it off a little bit.
Posted by rovers95 on June 7, 2010, at 10:40:36
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by bleauberry on June 2, 2010, at 18:11:39
>
> >
> > Hey bleauberry, really like reading your posts on here and was just wondering, alongside garlic what would else you include in say your top 3 (or maybe even 5!)mood boosters?
>
> Hey thanks! It's great talking with you too.
>
> Top mood boosters? Geez, if I knew that, I would be rich. It varies so much from person to person, depending on what the underlying root cause of their mood disorder is. It could be anything from an unsuspected chronic infection to heavy metals to a genetic flaw in metabolizing nutrients or flaws in methylation or flaws in fatty acids or actual brain damage from any of the above. Tough to guess. Many can be easily tested, but hardly anyone does that.
>
> In my early days St Johns Wort (either the cheap WalMart Spring Valley brand or the clinical Kira brand, both were great) along with a tiny bit of 5htp, well that was the best it ever was. It worked awesome and fast. A stupid psychiatrist took me off and I was never the same after that, and they didn't work on a second try.
>
> I could name off a bunch of naturals that have either scientific or anecdotal evidence as mood boosters. Some you've heard of, some you haven't, and some you probably did not know had the ability to lift mood. Licorice for example is not known as an antidepressant, but for anyone with adrenal exhaustion and in need of a little bit of a MAO inhibition, it's a good one. A good infection fighter too. There are so many medicinal plants.
>
> Ok, so in a hypothetical example a best friend is depressed, knows I have a lot of experience with that illness, he/she does not want to see a doctor but asks me my opinion on the top 5 things they should try. These are what would be on that list:
>
> Rhodiola rosea.
> SAMe.
> St Johns Wort.
> DLPA.
> 5htp.
> With the likelihood of combining small doses of two of them if one was ok but not good enough.
>
> For meds, my top choices are:
> Prozac+Ritalin
> Prozac+Zyprexa
> Parnate
> Nardil
> Zoloft+Nortriptyline
>
> >
> > Do you still use and if so, what sort of dosages do you take?
>
> I just bought another brand at Whole Foods and haven't tried it yet. It is enteric coated and equal to 4 cloves. Too much other stuff going on right now and I don't want to confuse things. Garlic is the next add-on though. My dose will be whatever I can take up to the point of it wreaking through my skin, at which point I will back it off a little bit.
>
>Thanks, unfortunately i have anxiety/akithasia like symptoms as well so some of the supps you mention can be too stimulating for me (even garlic!).
The only think i have ever found that has brought about a MASSIVE improvement in both conditions would have to be riluzole...but its way too expensive for regular use, would love to try ritalin but think i my find it a bit overwhelming.
thanks
Rover
Posted by morganator on June 13, 2010, at 14:17:09
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by bleauberry on June 2, 2010, at 18:11:39
>I just bought another brand at Whole Foods and haven't tried it yet.
BB, what brand of what are you speaking of? Just curious.
Posted by morganator on June 13, 2010, at 14:38:48
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood)))orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 26, 2010, at 22:43:02
That is a heck of a lot of fish oil. Are you noticing any side effects?
Posted by morganator on June 13, 2010, at 14:42:49
In reply to Re: Garlic for mood to orthomolecular, posted by orthomole on May 28, 2010, at 15:45:38
Ever tried a low dose of lithium as an adjunct therapy? Maybe 300 to 600 mg.
This is the end of the thread.
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