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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by shar on December 20, 2003, at 11:58:11
In reply to It does not grow easier each year...., posted by zenhussy on December 20, 2003, at 3:39:51
Grief is hard. I hope you will find a way to honor your father and yourself during this very sad time. I'm sorry about your father's death.
Shar
Posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 11:59:12
In reply to It does not grow easier each year...., posted by zenhussy on December 20, 2003, at 3:39:51
you're absolutely right, it doesn't get easier. I think the presence of issues have prevented me from going through the process of grieving also. My therp says anniveries of his death and holidays are particularly difficult as you have already found out. does your brother have the same feelings towards your father? is that why his presence helps you?
take care, judy
Posted by Lllucy on December 21, 2003, at 14:46:36
In reply to It does not grow easier each year...., posted by zenhussy on December 20, 2003, at 3:39:51
Hi
I'm sorry for your loss and continued pain. Your message resonates with me, that sense of being a novice at grief. I got the impression that you still can't really cry or 'get to' the pain you still feel - am I way off base?My dad died when I was 22, and I did not know how to allow feelings for myself then, either. My family, always estranged from each other, never did mourn together. 25 years later, I still wonder how to nurture and heal myself. Feelings so buried, so tightly held onto and I don't know how to release them, even though I understand that that it would be good to do. Knowing there are tears inside, and being able to allow them are such different things, I am frustrated that I haven't yet figured out how to bridge these separate things. I find that I go through a similar 'shutting down' in the face of more recent losses too. I think our culture is kind of phobic about mourning and grief, which doesn't help.
Thank you for your post. I wish I had something helpful to offer you, other than 'I hear you'. I will follow this thread to see if you (we) get any insight or words of practical wisdom from others. Take care,
Lucy
Posted by dandelion on December 23, 2003, at 13:43:37
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year.... » zenhussy, posted by Lllucy on December 21, 2003, at 14:46:36
It was comforting to read these posts. I always feel that my coworkers and friends, and even my family (though very small), think that I am simply incapable of "properly grieving". My dad passed away one year ago on Nov. 23 from a massive heart attack. I've finally gotten to the point where I can think of a silly memory of him and laugh to myself. He LOVED xmas, and would spend hours sitting on the living room floor untangling the lights for the tree, and he meticulously sorted through all of our ornaments, only picking out the most sentimental ones. He was the one who would spend the most time on the tree, and afterwards, would step back, hands on his hips, smiling at the finished product. He'd then make a fire, open up a book, and drink a cup of raspberry tea. He was a quiet man. We had a strange connection though. The kind where he could read how I was feeling, and understand. He knew when not to push something, to let it go, to give me space....
I personally have the most difficult time when I experience flashes of his death. I posted a while back on this, but felt I was too detailed and maybe made others feel uncomfortable. Anyway, to be simple about it, I was still living at home at the time, and I woke up at 3 a.m. or so to him falling to the floor upstairs. I attempted to revive him, all the while my mother in the background absolutely hysterical. I am able to switch this thought off, when it comes to me without warning. I started to feel as if I was an emotional robot. It got to be that I could completely control my emotions. My chest would start to ache, and I'd think, "STOP". and it would. After a while, I just felt so grey. When I wanted to cry, I couldn't. And it was nearly impossible for me to share any of these feelings with my mom and sister. They spoke on the phone almost every night, crying with eachother and lamenting why this had happened. My sister or mom would talk of him, and I could immediately feel myself closing up, crawling into my protective space. I worry that those last moments with my dad will haunt me forever. It makes me physically ill when I have flashes of his face, the pajamas he was wearing, the last time we spoke: he was watching the OSU-Michigan game on a Saturday afternoon. I asked him how he was feeling (I took it as a good sign that he was watching the game). He said he was feeling better, and then went about mumbling and cursing to himself when OSU lost the ball. I appreciate others being honest about the fact that it may not get "easier". Nothing irritated me more then when people approached me and said, "Time heals all wounds," "Your dad wouldn't want you to be sad", "You've got to be strong for your mom". Granted, I know death makes many uncomfortable. What to say, how to express your sorrow. Of course, to help myself accept that he was gone, I'd think of how much he hated regrets. He always would tell me, there was no use in dwelling on something that had already occurred. You must deal with it, accept it, and move on. I tried to let go of the things I'd never be able to tell him now, the grandfather he could have been , the fact that he only was able to enjoy 4 months of retirement. It all makes me angry and bitter. So, I focus on all the things that made him so wise, so humourous, and creative. Thinking of these things really does help me to feel more at peace. Thanks for "listening", and God Bless....
Posted by zenhussy on December 25, 2003, at 2:37:20
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year...., posted by shar on December 20, 2003, at 11:58:11
Thank you so very much for your kind words Shar.
I forgot tonight to ask my brother about going to the cemetery with me in a couple of weeks.
I guess I'll holly jolly merry xmas him with 'yo bro wanna go hang with pops on the day we give him props?' Think that will get him to go?
We did at least mention my dad tonight. Both alone and when his housemate joined us later. Rare. Like first time I can remember us spontaneously sharing a memory about our father.
Thank you again.
zh
Posted by zenhussy on December 25, 2003, at 2:43:04
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year.... » zenhussy, posted by judy1 on December 21, 2003, at 11:59:12
>you're absolutely right, it doesn't get easier. I think the presence of issues have prevented me from going through the process of grieving also. My therp says anniveries of his death and holidays are particularly difficult as you have already found out. does your brother have the same feelings towards your father? is that why his presence helps you?
take care, judyJudy,
firstly, I have to giggle imagining you doing yoga with wonderfully chunky (as a growing child needs to be!) G standing on your stomach or just crawling all over you in general. That is a funny image. Probably not quite the best reality for yoga but sounds delightful for the spirit.
My brother grieved my father's death with my mum years ago. Back when he died. I'm sure my brother has his own issues somewhere but nothing like the complete shutdown of grieving I did as a child. It was noticed by all adults around me. I shifted. Somehow the loss of a parent was too great for me to bear.
Pops has nothing to do with my other traumas other than just predisposing me to unhealthy coping mechanisms. But I can't blame him for dying now can I?
I wish you a peaceful holiday with your family and send some holiday cheer to those who lost their homes in the fires near you.
zh
Posted by zenhussy on December 25, 2003, at 2:53:05
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year.... » zenhussy, posted by Lllucy on December 21, 2003, at 14:46:36
>Hi
>I'm sorry for your loss and continued pain. Your message resonates with me, that sense of being a novice at grief. I got the impression that you still can't really cry or 'get to' the pain you still feel - am I way off base?Oh I can cry alright but attaching that to the actual pain of losing a parent before the age of nine? Guess my little mind snapped in a way.
>My dad died when I was 22, and I did not know how to allow feelings for myself then, either. My family, always estranged from each other, never did mourn together. 25 years later, I still wonder how to nurture and heal myself. Feelings so buried, so tightly held onto and I don't know how to release them, even though I understand that that it would be good to do. Knowing there are tears inside, and being able to allow them are such different things, I am frustrated that I haven't yet figured out how to bridge these separate things. I find that I go through a similar 'shutting down' in the face of more recent losses too. I think our culture is kind of phobic about mourning and grief, which doesn't help.Western USA culture? Yeah. Death is just hushed up in every way. I found I had to read a lot about death and grief to begin to connect to my loss.
I guess that is step one. Admitting to your heart that you've suffered a great loss is the hardest step of all in grieving. To acknowledge the loss fully. Ouch. Painful stuff.
> Thank you for your post. I wish I had something helpful to offer you, other than 'I hear you'. I will follow this thread to see if you (we) get any insight or words of practical wisdom from others. Take care,
Lucy
There is a lot of value in saying 'I hear you'. Validating one another's grief is very important. Recognizing that we hurt. We suffer. We ache. We just don't know how to get those feelings out from the inner torment we confine them to.I am sorry about your loss as well. A family that doesn't mourn together does have difficulty in many areas. Our family is only now beginning to bridge the lost years over my/our inability to grieve this together--all of us as a family.
I'm hoping my posts tonight make sense. Not rereading and feeling so damn med stupid it's not even funny. Bleh.
Thank you again. The words mean everything. It is never too late to grieve. I'd be happy to mention the books that were helpful to me in my seeking about grief and grieving.
zh
Posted by zenhussy on December 25, 2003, at 3:01:58
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year...., posted by dandelion on December 23, 2003, at 13:43:37
dandelion,
your post is so moving. I want to comment on it but just your screen name alone in this thread gave me days of pause. Dandelion was one of my nicknames that my father called me when I was a baby and very young.
Pow. Over twenty years later and it still goes right to the heart and the sense of loss and heaviness of unresolved grief.
I'm glad you have been able to find a way to move through this hellish grief. To see the good things and remember the humour. That is wisdom. You show true wisdom there dandelion.
I'm sorry your post was missed before. The closing off you speak of is exactly what I would feel whenever anyone around me spoke of my father after his death.
You really had a connection to your father and what a sad way to have to say goodbye. You were blessed to have so many years on this planet with him. And it is so okay to cry along with the good memories.
Screw the coworkers and friends who wouldn't know grief if it struck them with a 2x4! Phooey on them.
I will have a cup of raspberry tea tonight when I return home in honour of your father. I'd go so far as to say I'd read too but with this brain right now that would be pushing it.
take care and thank you for your post (again since it slid under the radar the first time)
zh
Posted by zenhussy on December 27, 2003, at 14:07:59
In reply to Re: It does not grow easier each year.... » shar, posted by zenhussy on December 25, 2003, at 2:37:20
Thank goodness for small comforts. In this case a large one. Knowing I won't have to be alone next year on that day lifts a bit of the darkness.
zh
Posted by shar on December 27, 2003, at 23:34:37
In reply to brother will be going to cemetery w/me after all, posted by zenhussy on December 27, 2003, at 14:07:59
I'm very glad to hear that. I'm glad to hear of anything that brings you comfort. I hope it goes ok.
Shar
Posted by zenhussy on January 8, 2007, at 13:31:55
In reply to It does not grow easier each year...., posted by zenhussy on December 20, 2003, at 3:39:51
Posted by zenhussy on January 16, 2007, at 15:13:05
In reply to season of grief continues 26 yrs later..... (nm), posted by zenhussy on January 8, 2007, at 13:31:55
Posted by karen_kay on August 27, 2007, at 20:24:55
In reply to guess we should have lost a pet not a father :( (nm), posted by zenhussy on January 16, 2007, at 15:13:05
i'm sorry
kk
Posted by zenhussy on November 29, 2007, at 22:02:03
In reply to (((((hussy))))), posted by karen_kay on August 27, 2007, at 20:24:55
> i'm sorry
>
> kkoh sugar if only we were still funked just about pa....now to add ma to that grief is beyond...just beyond!
beyond explanation at least. one month into losing ma. it hurts so terribly much and feels unrelenting yet changes by the day if not hourly. the last month seems surreal but it *did* happen and it *is* real and there's no avoiding how painful this reality is.
nothing is mormal again after experiencing both these losses. we're reminded to take it easy and not have a lot of expectations during this time.
most say at least a year. GAH! it hurts so much. so much hurt. sooooooooooo much pain.
Posted by zenhussy on January 26, 2008, at 2:01:44
In reply to Re: (((((hussy))))) » karen_kay, posted by zenhussy on November 29, 2007, at 22:02:03
Posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 13:36:08
In reply to grief crushes joy outta almost everything *tears* (nm), posted by zenhussy on January 26, 2008, at 2:01:44
Posted by maree on May 13, 2008, at 23:07:11
In reply to guess we should have lost a pet not a father :( (nm), posted by zenhussy on January 16, 2007, at 15:13:05
That IS NOT a sensitive thing to say. A pet becomes a PERSON to the one who loves it. I, myself, lost my 17 year old dog, due to injuries that I caused her, and I still have not come to terms with her loss, 4 years later, yet, I lost my mother only 2 years ago, and it has been easier to live with HER loss.
With my dog, guilt has raised it's ugly head, with my Mum, there was not a lot of guilt
Posted by maree on June 26, 2008, at 4:50:31
In reply to guess we should have lost a pet not a father :( (nm), posted by zenhussy on January 16, 2007, at 15:13:05
This was an extremely hurtful comment. I too am grieving,,,for a pet. A pet who was with me for 17 years, longer than any person I have ever met, except my parents. My dog chose to love me, she did not have to love me, and it was for that that I loved her.
Someone who has not had the love of a pet, cannot understand the incredible bond that can grow between you, and how, guilty an owner can feel, knowing that they were responsible for their pet's death.
If I had maimed my mother so that she had no quality of life, I would have been in prison. If we chose to let her die,to free her from suffering, it would have been considered brave, and humane, I did that to my dog, and got away with it because my dog was just my possession.
She suffered, I did not, but I am now, and have done for the past 5 years. Thjs grief I have not been able to come to terms with. How do I?
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2008, at 7:15:49
In reply to Re: guess we should have lost a pet not a father :, posted by maree on May 13, 2008, at 23:07:11
> guess we should have lost a pet not a father
>
> zenhussy> That IS NOT a sensitive thing to say.
>
> mareePlease be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as those mourning other losses).
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
For more information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on July 1, 2008, at 0:33:25
In reply to Re: guess we should have lost a pet not a father :, posted by maree on June 26, 2008, at 4:50:31
> This was an extremely hurtful comment. I too am grieving,,,for a pet. A pet who was with me for 17 years, longer than any person I have ever met, except my parents. My dog chose to love me, she did not have to love me, and it was for that that I loved her.
> Someone who has not had the love of a pet, cannot understand the incredible bond that can grow between you, and how, guilty an owner can feel, knowing that they were responsible for their pet's death.
> If I had maimed my mother so that she had no quality of life, I would have been in prison. If we chose to let her die,to free her from suffering, it would have been considered brave, and humane, I did that to my dog, and got away with it because my dog was just my possession.
> She suffered, I did not, but I am now, and have done for the past 5 years. Thjs grief I have not been able to come to terms with. How do I?I have lost pets and I've lost parents. I lost a dog that was the best friend that I've ever had. I was his human for 15 tears.
I had my parents for 50+ years. I was devastated by all of my losses.
We all grieve differently and respecting one's choices is a part of the process of healing, for them and for ourselves.
I can't imagine that anyone could take umbradge due to the way someone posted in a moment of grief for the loss of their parents.
I am very sorry that this has happened. I feel sad for Babble.
Posted by karen_kay on July 12, 2008, at 9:16:09
In reply to Re: please be sensitive » zenhussy » maree, posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2008, at 7:15:49
so, expressing the lack of support hussy felt in her loss of her father is somehow uncivil?
i'll never understand the civility rules.
(((((hussy))))) i feel for you. my thoughts are with you dear, as i too have lost a father. and it's a much deeper loss than a pet, imho.
take care dear. you're doing a wonderful job of keeping on and keepig it together. i support you and i'm here for you hun.
Posted by karen_kay on July 12, 2008, at 9:22:41
In reply to Re: guess we should have lost a pet not a father :, posted by maree on May 13, 2008, at 23:07:11
were you close to your mother dear? it's not a double-sided (is that the right word?) question. i know how much it hurts to lose a pet as well. pets are as close as children, and they simply can't be replaced. i'm very sorry for your loss. i think what hussy was simply saying is that if she'd lost a pet, she'd recieved more support, you know?
please take care of yoruself dear. and i hope you continue on in your healing process.
my condolences,
kk
Posted by maree on July 22, 2008, at 21:57:44
In reply to Re: please be sensitive » zenhussy » maree, posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2008, at 7:15:49
Sorry Zenhussy, Dr Bob.
I guess, if I was a psych, I would diagnose me as being in the "anger" part of "recovery"
I admit, I do sound off before thinking, likely why I am such an unpopular person in "real" life
Posted by maree on July 22, 2008, at 22:18:15
In reply to i too am sorry for your loss » maree, posted by karen_kay on July 12, 2008, at 9:22:41
Thank you Karen.I apologize to the entire board for my earlier comments.
Was I close to my Mum? I once would have thought so, now, I do not know.
I guess I blamed/blame her upbringing for the unhappy place that I am in now, so, I do not know that I can say that we were close.
The fact that I spent a lot more time with her than any woman of my age would have been doing, was only because I have no kids of my own, and she was always good company.
The really sad thing is that I do not think I loved her, because I really only learnt how to love through the relationship with my dog.
This is turning into a long ramble so I will stop there.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 24, 2008, at 22:44:19
In reply to Re: i too am sorry for your loss » karen_kay, posted by maree on July 22, 2008, at 22:18:15
There's a lot of different things going on in this thread. It's complicated, as love and grief are. But I think we all can relate to love, regardless of the object of our love, and we all, unfortunately, can relate to the pain of grief, again, regardless of who we're grieving.
Such beautiful and piercing emotions. Part of life.
I'm sorry for your loss.
gg
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