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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on March 3, 2004, at 10:50:08
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Dinah, posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 10:39:35
I asked him right before he was going out of town. It was a totally natural moment to ask.
Posted by pegasus on March 3, 2004, at 10:59:27
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » pegasus, posted by tinydancer on March 3, 2004, at 4:18:18
I just said "Can I ask you for a favor?" He thought I was going to ask to hug him. Then I just asked if I could take a short video of him. See, the trick is you always ask them something they'll say "yes" to first. Then you ask the thing you're afraid they'll say no to. It works most of the time. Try it!
He did jokingly mention that he didn't want me to post my video on the internet. Which, of course, I would never do. Although I'd love to show you guys. But I'll honor that concern of his.
He was the one who wanted to come up with something wise to say in the video. I didn't care if he just told a joke, or said goodbye to me, or whatever. Of course, the perfect thing would have been if he'd told me how much he liked me and that he'd miss me or something, but that's just dreaming. So, the fact that he chose to try to give me some type of pithy wisdom was part of him just being himself.
- p
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 12:15:11
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on March 3, 2004, at 10:50:08
I think its cool I am just too shy I think..I have to find a GOOD moment whatever that is lol
> I asked him right before he was going out of town. It was a totally natural moment to ask.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 12:19:02
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » tinydancer, posted by fallsfall on March 2, 2004, at 17:30:12
Hi I have to ask...do you have a S/O??????? ? My husband would kill me if I put a pick of my T on our headboard..but I think its cool and wish I could.
Posted by KindGirl on March 3, 2004, at 14:45:14
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Fallen4myT, posted by Dinah on March 3, 2004, at 10:50:08
Okay here is the deal. I brought my camera one day in the initial phase of therapy (didn't know any better I guess!) and just asked her at the end of the session..."Could we take a picture together?" and we put our heads together while I did the extending the arm thing. I wanted the picture more than I cared about being embarrassed. I have it framed in my room and look at it all the time.
Also, this is what I think is pretty unusual about my T......she gave me a picture of herself sitting on a bench right before she left for vacation. She also gave me a tape of her reading a story to me to listen to when she was gone. At first I said, "Ooh, get this away from me! This is creepy! How dare she think I would want a picture of her and I didn't even ask!"...and guess what? It is on my nightstand and I look at it all the time.
Just ask...that is what I would say. A lot of us have different T.s with VERY different ideas of bonding, holding, transference, boundaries....I guess you need to listen to YOUR HEART and do what feels right. If you are really really wanting it, ask for it...call and leave a message on his machine or ask him in a card you give him at the end of the session...something...
I have a picture of her from the internet too.You guys are so cute and make me feel soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better because I struggle with so many things you all address.
Thanks so much
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 16:58:24
In reply to Yes I do! Two in fact! Don't hate me everyone..., posted by KindGirl on March 3, 2004, at 14:45:14
Kindgirl if I didn't like you SO much I would hate you.lol....two pics and one not asked for a tape etc...I am sooooo jealous I could scream :) I would pay someone to sneaky get a new pic of my T smiling but I could not ask....and IF I had it by my bed my husband would kill me and tear it up :P Your T sounds soooooo nuturing. I wonder what my T would do if I asked..I have thought of stealing things of his for a while but havent yet....maybe cant but man I AM SOOOOO JEALOUS ,,,but happy for you
Posted by fallsfall on March 3, 2004, at 20:02:52
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » fallsfall, posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 12:19:02
I am separated. So the headboard belongs to only me.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 3, 2004, at 20:07:36
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Fallen4myT, posted by fallsfall on March 3, 2004, at 20:02:52
Now I am jealous of you AND KindGirl...I bet thats cool. Wish I could do that and have a tape of Ts voice..Thanks for the reply :)
Posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? (nm), posted by terrics on March 4, 2004, at 14:43:11
Hi-
I am currently in a Ph.D. program for clinical psychology, and I find this thread extremely disturbing. If you wonder why therapists may be hesitant to continue working with you or seem distant, try to remember that we are human, and in fact, these requests are extremely disturbing and can cause quick burnout.
It takes a very strong psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist to work with somebody who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and you are not making it any easier by asking for these bizarre, inappropriate favors. Would you ask your optometrist for his or her picture? Probably not. So try to give your therapists the same respect. We have spines too, and with that comes the ability to feel chills run up and down it with these...for lack of a better word, creepy...requests.
The majority of psychologists and LCSWs, as well as many psychiatrists, receive training in psychoanalytic approaches as part of their education. While not all agree with these approaches, there is a general theme to be very cautious with issues of transference, where the patient/client transfers sexual/loving/hating/etc feelings onto the clinician. I guarantee you that transference is the first issue that would come to most professional minds with these horrid invasions of privacy. Not only do these teenybopper crushes create severe ethical dilemmas, they also are extremely insulting. You should be ashamed of yourselves for treating your therapists like your children...they put up with enough already. I pray, above all else, that your therapists have the acumen and training to handle you appropriately. If you set foot in my office, I would drop you off my client list before you could develop a Polaroid.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 4, 2004, at 22:22:53
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
Posted by underthecs on March 4, 2004, at 22:28:59
In reply to Ignore above post if you are feeling sensitive (nm) » Apperceptor, posted by gardenergirl on March 4, 2004, at 22:22:53
Posted by underthecs on March 4, 2004, at 22:30:38
In reply to Ignore above post if you are feeling sensitive (nm) » Apperceptor, posted by gardenergirl on March 4, 2004, at 22:22:53
that post was pretty disturbing to me, so i emailed my own therapist w/a copy of it to get his reaction. will keep everyone posted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 22:32:39
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
> these bizarre, inappropriate favors ... these...for lack of a better word, creepy...requests.
>
> these horrid invasions of privacy ... these teenybopper crushes ... are extremely insulting. You should be ashamed of yourselves for treating your therapists like your children ... If you set foot in my office, I would drop you off my client list before you could develop a Polaroid.Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posting something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might also help others respond to you supportively.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 23:30:10
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
> If you set foot in my office, I would drop you off my client list before you could develop a Polaroid.
Well, certainly all clients are not for all therapists, and vice versa. I think it is wise of you to limit your practice to those for whom you can feel genuine compassion and empathy. My therapist always says that not much productive long term therapy can take place without caring.
And doing so quickly is even better, before the client develops any sort of attachment to you. Are you interested in short term therapy only? If not, might I recommend Deborah Lott's book "In Session"? Most therapists who do long term therapy should have more than a passing aquaintance with how to sensitively and skillfully deal with client attachment I think. That attachment takes many forms, from sexual to romantic to maternal or paternal. I've heard that it's sad but true that many academic programs don't train more fully in this area. My therapist, who does a lot of supervision, says that supervision is the key to learning the realities of clinical practice. Perhaps you should seek out a supervisor who has extra strength in the areas where you feel uncomfortable?
Have you studied attachment theory, perchance? I think you might find it informative as to types of attachment, the need for transitional objects, etc.
I'd be fascinated to learn how many more years you have until you are licensed, and what type of clinical practice you are envisioning?
By the way, if it is the sexualized transference that causes you special discomfort might I recommend an APA video?
http://www.apa.org/videos/4310570.html?CFID=2493388&CFTOKEN=89863392
I wish all the best to you and your clients in your professional endeavors.
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2004, at 23:32:27
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
"In Session" by Deborah Lott
Sorry, I forgot to resubmit my links.
Posted by sb417 on March 4, 2004, at 23:33:49
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
Apperceptor,
You said that you are studying to be a clinical psychologist. I'm interested to know how far along you are in your program. Have you actually worked with patients yet? And, most important of all, have you had intensive psychotherapy yourself? If so, for how long? Have you completed your own analysis? Your post suggests that you have not. I wish you much luck in your training and hope that you have the acumen to handle your patients -- and yourself -- appropriately.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 4, 2004, at 23:44:36
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
> It takes a very strong psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist to work with somebody who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and you are not making it any easier by asking for these bizarre, inappropriate favors.
You are right, it probably doesn't make it any easier, but that is part of Borderline Personality Disorder. If the therapist feels unfit or unqualified to handle such a client, then perhaps the therapist should refer the client onto someone more qualified and competent.
>Would you ask your optometrist for his or her picture?
I also wouldn't divulge my inner-most thoughts to my optometrist. The relationship between me and my eye doctor is not anything like the relationship between my me and my therapist.
>We have spines too, and with that comes the ability to feel chills run up and down it with these...for lack of a better word, creepy...requests.
I feel offended by you referring to such a request as "creepy." I'm curious, do you speak this way to your clients?
> I guarantee you that transference is the first issue that would come to most professional minds with these horrid invasions of privacy.
Is asking for a picture horrid? All a therapist has to say is, "No."
>Not only do these teenybopper crushes create severe ethical dilemmas, they also are extremely insulting.
I feel as if you are trivializing other people's feelings by referring to tranference as "teenybopper crushes." How is it insulting? I would think in a certain aspect, it would be slightly flattering to know that a person admires you and finds the therapist so helpful.
>You should be ashamed of yourselves for treating your therapists like your children...they put up with enough already.
Well...they did choose the profession, did they not? No one forced them into it.
>I pray, above all else, that your therapists have the acumen and training to handle you appropriately.
I'm sure a well-trained therapist knows exactly how to deal with such problems.
>If you set foot in my office, I would drop you off my client list before you could develop a Polaroid.
Wouldn't that greatly decrease your list of clients? Many have problems very similar to this, that is precisely why they decided to seek help from a professional. You might also like to know that many of the posters on this website have also "googled" their therapist.
Respectfully,
Elle
Posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 23:46:39
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Apperceptor, posted by sb417 on March 4, 2004, at 23:33:49
Dinah and sb417,
I really appreciate your positive support in light of what I know was a (perhaps overly) blunt post on my part. A little background - I was in a severely troubling situation with a client prior to my doctoral training, and was recently reminded of it in a clinical class (psychodynamic, no less). I do feel that clients...myself included, I'm sure...capitalize on therapist's empathy, and perhaps forget that we have spouses, families, consciences, and weaknesses. I am just getting very frustrated...I love the idea of client's bill of rights, but sometimes I wish I/we had a few rights as well.
Regarding the more concrete questions - I am entering my second year of training. I've been seeing clients for three semesters in my program, as well as a year prior to entering doctoral training. I've gone through psychotherapy, but not psychoanalysis (however, if I win powerball, I'll be there in a heartbeat). My training program is much heavier on assessment than therapy; I am specializing in projective personality assessment (Rorschach, TAT, sentence completion, Draw-A-Person, etc).
I apoligize for the inflamatory nature of my post. While I do stand by my sentiments, I did not practice what I preach...trying to understand everyone in their context. I just ask that perhaps you consider the possiblity that your therapist may be having just as many problems as you are, and therefore is put in a very painful situation with circumstances such as photo requests.
Wiping some egg off my face, hard-boiling the rest....
> Apperceptor,
>
> You said that you are studying to be a clinical psychologist. I'm interested to know how far along you are in your program. Have you actually worked with patients yet? And, most important of all, have you had intensive psychotherapy yourself? If so, for how long? Have you completed your own analysis? Your post suggests that you have not. I wish you much luck in your training and hope that you have the acumen to handle your patients -- and yourself -- appropriately.
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2004, at 0:08:17
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 23:46:39
I appreciate your apology. And I do understand that therapists are under pressure too. But, while it might not feel like it to you now, as you're training, therapists do have most of the power in a well conducted therapy. And part of what might come across as clinginess (and I'm sure that's how I come across) on the part of the client comes from that power differential.
If it would help you understand some clients in their own context, I will be happy to explain my motivations. I have never asked for a picture of my therapist, as I think that would be intrusive. But I do google him on occasion and read the ads in the papers with the express purpose of finding a photo. Not because I'm in love with him, but because he represents a source of security to me. And I have trouble (as many people with borderline traits do) holding on to an internalized image when he's gone.
When he was gone for extended periods of time for his other job, I asked for and he agreed to do a guided relaxation tape for me. It gave a connection while he was away. I also keep his answering machine messages for the same reason.
And when he moved, I asked if I could take a photo of his office, which was my safe place. And he graciously agreed. He asked at the time if I wanted him in the photo, but he seemed uncomfortable. I think he would have said yes, but I told him that was ok, and he left me in his room to photograph what I wanted.
None of this has any creepy connotations. I don't want to posess him or enter his life. I don't stalk him or spy on him. But he has been an important source of stability to me over a long period of time. And it helps, like a child taking a blanky to childcare, to have transitional objects.
I daresay it's possible to run into a client straight out of Fatal Attraction, but most clients probably have far more mundane reasons for wanting photographs or other forms of connection with their therapists. And before you refer them out, you might want to explore the reasons. You just might find that people aren't as scary as you thought they were. :)
But of course, if you're just going to be doing psychological testing, this really won't come up very often.
That being said, I'd love to converse with you about some of the psychological tests, if you'd be interested. I took the MMPI, and was utterly fascinated. After I took it, I learned everything I could about it. I was somewhat less impressed by the Rorshach, and the others I might have taken as a preteen, but I have long forgotten them.
Posted by pegasus on March 5, 2004, at 0:11:44
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 23:46:39
Apperceptor,
I appreciate your second post. The first one did definitely rile me up. I think it was because therapy is *such* hard work. I interpreted your comments as being very judgmental and unsupportive of the struggles that most of us have in therapy. A lot of us hate the fact that we are so dependent on our therapists. I think many of us, if we could choose, would not want to be in a position of wanting a photo of our therapists and all the rest. It's a very vulnerable position.
I'm sure that a lot of us (myself definitely) think *a lot* about the fact that our therapists have lives and problems and that we might be burdening them. We probably think about it too much sometimes. Those thoughts create major obstacles to therapy. The whole deal with therapy is that we, as clients, need to be willing to open up to our therapists and tell them extremely intimate things. Part of that is trusting that they are able and willing to handle our intimacy. I would hope that any therapist would understand that creating that type of intimate relationship is going to involve some side effects such as feeling dependent, and attached, and possibly wanting to know more about our therapists than we're allowed to know, or wanting objects that remind us of them. I would hope that a therapist who is not comfortable with those side effects would not enter into long term therapy with clients, or at least not the type that requires revealing extremely intimate and painful details of their lives. I would be mortified to find that my therapist had thoughts like some that you expressed in your first post. I'd drop therapy like a rock, and never look back. I'm going to show her your post, and discuss it with her, just to make sure I'm ok with her.
- p
Posted by sb417 on March 5, 2004, at 0:16:05
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 23:46:39
Why would a patient's request for a photo be painful to a therapist? I have asked two therapists for photos. The first one gave a photo to me at the next session. This occurred within months of my mother's death, so that may have had something to do with the fact that the therapist didn't seem to hesitate to grant my request. The second therapist (the one I see now) did not give me a photo. A year or so after requesting one from him, I found a photo of him in a medical journal. I wrote to the publisher of the journal and got a copy of the issue for myself. I also bought a copy of a book he wrote. Both the photo and his writing have been helpful and comforting to me, particularly during times of extreme stress and/or separation from him. As Elle suggested, I think some therapists might be flattered by such a request. Even if a therapist is flattered, however, that doesn't necessarily mean that they should provide a photo.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 0:58:38
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
I don't know but it seems to me a lot of people in here have been graciously given pictures of their T's and as they are doctors and psychologist in practice for many years they just may know a tad more about the actual real time process of the work they do than a student would. Just a thought. I am I guess saying in many years YOU may understand more tha you do now from sitting in the chair and see things less black and whire JMO
Posted by tinydancer on March 5, 2004, at 4:44:04
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 20:55:14
First of all I will point out that I'm late in the game here and it seems like the Apperceptor situation has been somewhat resolved, but this poster does say they stand by their original statements, so I feel entitled to comment, especially since I was the first one who posted this topic.
While I can see the issue from Apperceptor's point of view, I also find it disturbing that a student of pyschology can display so little understanding towards traumatized patients whom have therapists so skilled that they are able to place their trust in them enough to ask for a photograph. A skilled therapist would and should, in my opinion, encourage the patient to explore and voice all wishes, thoughts, desires, obsessions and so on. If one, as a student of psychology, was uncomfortable or at ease with dealing with the transference and possible chance for erotic transference and other similar situations, I would question the ability of this therapy to serve the client with any purpose.
I totally agree that it takes an incredibly gifted and emotionally strong therapist to succesfully treat a post trauma patient/personality disorder. I don't think it is inappropriate to feel a desire to have a photograph of people that one cares about and has confided in or found kindness in. For myself, I have for a long time collected photographs of myself with different folks who have had an impact on me (teachers, doctors, bosses, priests, counselors) to remind me of the work we accomplished together and of what that means to me. I don't know what is creepy about that. The comparison between an optometrist and a therapist is far too different to be meaningful in my opinion.
I feel that you demean the folks here who have revealed their true emotions for their therapists. For example, in my case this has absolutely never happened before and being an adult who is capable of identifying my own feelings, my feelings for my therapist are far from a teenybopper crush. They are real feelings and I experience real pain. It's nothing I would have chosen to feel. Thankfully my T takes my feelings seriously and is strong enough to be able to simultaneously illuminate the boundaries of our therapeutic relationship while still giving me comfort and reassurance.
I think it is extremely disturbing that you wish the users of this discussion board, many or most of whom ARE patients, to be ashamed of themselves. That is the last thing I think any of us should be. We have given our lives over to the hands of our therapists, trusting in their ability to heal and that is nothing to take lightly as I feel you have, and even more so, demeaned the whole therapeutic process.
I'm not sure where the agression and underlying demeaning attitude I feel you take with us is coming from, but it is a little frightful to envision the positive effect it would have on a potential client.
Posted by Kind Girl on March 5, 2004, at 8:21:07
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Apperceptor, posted by tinydancer on March 5, 2004, at 4:44:04
I found this thread very upsetting at first and then continued to read...yes I am still very shocked that one person's words could cut like a knife and almost destroy 2 years of trust building I have attempted with my T., and that was my reaction to the heated post above.
I AM a "kind girl" and do want to extend forgiveness and openness to learn new things so I am trying to "seek first to understand and then be understood" and not get personally offended.
I will say that I DO have pictures of my doctors with me....my obstetricians who delivered my babies (before delivery and on follow up visits, not just in the labor room) and they were DELIGHTED to take a picture with me. I have pictures of me with professors from college...and I have many pictures requested of me to take with my students....and I do not feel one bit awkward about any of it. Heck, I guess I am just a great person everyone wants a picture with! ha ha
Do I take pictures of my pharmacist or the checker at the grocery store? Naw...I give them a pass. But I do love and cherish the people in my life and give 100 percent to them and I like to remember them and think good things about them when I am not with them.
P.S. My therapist recommended taking a picture of her and then I brought in my camera and asked if I could be in it with her. She is not a narcissist (remember I was raised by 2) just a very sensitive and brilliant therapist.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 5, 2004, at 10:35:44
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Apperceptor, posted by tinydancer on March 5, 2004, at 4:44:04
TinyDancer I said about the same thing above. I have been told by my T who had OVER 16 years of experience that he loves to work within transferance and ALL that goes with it...EXPERIENCE breeds skill. I am not sure this person is for real Thats just my opinion. Sorry but to be so cruel as to chew people out for how they feel and work with their experienced therapists seems suspect. JMO....I also emailed the post to my T and he said VERY INSENSITIVE and a few more things I will not post.
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