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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that therapy is starting to cause more distress than it's worth. It's not so much that we're talking about painful things as it is that there is an ever widening gulf between what I say and what I want to say. Sometimes I avoid things and sometimes I talk about things without even beginning to reveal my depth of feeling about them. So I feel my T and I are working at cross purposes. And really this resistance just makes me feel worse about myself - like I'm a failure at therapy.
I'm thinking i should quit before things get worse. My thought is that I do myself no favors by continually putting myself under my own personal microscope. I think self-criticism has become a way of life for me and I might fare far better if I find a way to stop thinking about myself - therapy is definitely not conducive to distancing you from yourself.
The problem is that my T is far more committed to my future than I am. I've told her too many times that I have this huge fear about terminating therapy prematurely because I'm afraid I'll rapidly go downhill and because I'll take it as evidence that I've given up on myself and that she's given up on me. She's told me repeatedly that she would go to great lengths to keep me in therapy. But I think I've exagerated the risks - quitting therapy doesn't have to be as much giving up on myself as it is recognizing that I'm just not capable of opening up enough to make the process work, at least any more than it already has. So although I think she knows that I'm not going to get anywhere (or at least has serious doubts), I don't think she'll see that a decision to quit doesn't have to be a negative.
I'm sure this makes little sense - I just needed to try to verbalize some of what I've been thinking.
Posted by toomuchpain on March 10, 2004, at 23:06:45
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
i have been where ur at and it is hard ... but from experince is to just take a break for a lil ... give ur self sometime to think ... 0r before u go to therpy write down what u want to say i have done that and it has helped me out alot!!!!!
Posted by DaisyM on March 10, 2004, at 23:55:40
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
Not disjointed at all...and certainly not grumbling! I think that you are in a difficult place and it is hard to see what good therapy is doing. I've been there, actually I go there a lot! I think it is important to at least process with your Therapist your perspective on CHOOSING to leave therapy, at least for now.
And I agree, sometimes it can be a positive thing to make a change. But if you have things to say, things to work out, but just can't get them out, I don't think you are done yet. I write a lot of stuff down. In fact, it is truly one of my greatest forms of expression. Most of it I can then say to my Therapist but some of it I haven't been able to, and have given him the writings instead. It does sound like you are struggling internally with what you want to say but your internal guard won't let you.
How long have you been trying to get it out? I don't know if it helps you to know it took me months and months and I only do a little at a time.
I hope you can work through it with your therapist and make a decision together.
Posted by All Done on March 11, 2004, at 0:10:34
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
mair,
Just thinking out loud, but have you thought about discussing or re-evaluting your goals for therapy with your T? Maybe you're not able to say what you want to say because you and your T aren't on the same page about what you want and need from therapy. My goals for therapy seem to change pretty rapidly and sometimes there are periods I'm not even sure why I'm there, so I end up discussing things that don't feel like they apply. Once we re-evaluate my goals, it frees me up to talk about "new" things or things that I'd been holding in. Gosh, I'm rambling. Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...
In any event, I think you need to talk to your T about all of this. That way, you won't be guessing at what she is thinking or what she might say. She can also probably help you decide if quitting is the best option.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by fallsfall on March 11, 2004, at 8:27:45
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
Mair,
*** You say some very interesting things. I know from your past posts that you are an insightful patient. Can I tell you what I hear you saying? (Well, I'm going to tell you anyway, but you don't have to listen...) 8^)
> I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that therapy is starting to cause more distress than it's worth.
>So I feel my T and I are working at cross purposes.***OK. So therapy is distressing to you right now. You don't have a feeling of accomplishment. Every session feels like a conflict. You are right, this doesn't sound productive or fun.
>It's not so much that we're talking about painful things as it is that there is an ever widening gulf between what I say and what I want to say. Sometimes I avoid things and sometimes I talk about things without even beginning to reveal my depth of feeling about them.
>And really this resistance just makes me feel worse about myself - like I'm a failure at therapy.*** This is where you describe what the problem is. The problem is that you know that there are important things that you aren't discussing. And you know that therapy can't be particularly helpful when you hide your emotions from your therapist. So since you know that you aren't being open and really "there" in the sessions, you know that you aren't quite holding up your end of the bargain. And that makes you feel guilty. So, when you realize you aren't doing the right thing in therapy you feel like a failure. It really stinks to feel like a failure. I certainly understand why you are unhappy with the process at this point.
> I'm thinking i should quit before things get worse.
*** So here is your solution. If you quit therapy then you don't have to worry about not being honest with your therapist - because you won't be talking to her. So you wouldn't be failing therapy because you wouldn't be DOING therapy.
>My thought is that I do myself no favors by continually putting myself under my own personal microscope. I think self-criticism has become a way of life for me and I might fare far better if I find a way to stop thinking about myself - therapy is definitely not conducive to distancing you from yourself.
*** But here is where it starts to get really interesting. You are a failure in therapy because you aren't discussing your emotions with your therapist - you are glossing over things, making it look like things are better than they really are. Somehow, this doesn't sound like putting your life under a microscope. You say that you WANT to distance yourself from yourself. Isn't that what you are effectively doing right now? And isn't that exactly what is making you feel like a failure? So why would the same action - distancing yourself from yourself - both make you feel good (because you stated that this is a goal of yours) and a failure at the same time?
*** But then you tell us a little more about yourself so that we can understand your conflict better:
>
> The problem is that my T is far more committed to my future than I am. I've told her too many times thatI HAVE THIS HUGE FEAR ABOUT TERMINATING THERAPY PREMATURELY (capitals are mine)
because I'm afraid I'll rapidly go downhill and because I'll take it as evidence that I've given up on myself and that she's given up on me. She's told me repeatedly that she would go to great lengths to keep me in therapy.
*** So you have a "huge fear" about terminating prematurely. You are afraid that you will end therapy before your work is finished. Is your work finished? You've just told us how you are avoiding the real work...
>But I think I've exagerated the risks - quitting therapy doesn't have to be as much giving up on myself as it is
RECOGNIZING THAT I'M JUST NOT CAPABLE OF OPENING UP ENOUGH TO MAKE THE PROCESS WORK,
at least any more than it already has.
*** So, the reason that you are a failure in therapy is because you are flawed, broken. For some reason, I'm not convinced that this is true. You opened up to US... Why do you think that you are "NOT CAPABLE"? Have you been more open in the past? It sounds like you must have been, or you wouldn't have this clear an idea of what is going wrong. So, you ARE capable - you've done it before.
>So although I think she knows that I'm not going to get anywhere (or at least has serious doubts), I don't think she'll see that a decision to quit doesn't have to be a negative.
*** Here you try to make sure that we understand that you are flawed and broken. Why would you think that she "knows" that you won't get "anywhere"? Has she told you that she expects no further improvement? Has she given you a reason why she thinks that this is the best you will ever get? Are you sure that you are not projecting your feelings of hopelessness on to her?
>
> I'm sure this makes little sense - I just needed to try to verbalize some of what I've been thinking.*** Actually, Mair. It makes a lot of sense to me. It sounds like you are having a really hard time being open right now, and that this makes you think you are a failure and that you'll never get any better - so why don't you just give up? But at the same time, you really have expressed yourself openly and with honesty here. Can I suggest another plan of attack?
*** Since the pain from your therapy seems to be coming from your feeling of failure, maybe you can address the root of that, instead of walking away.
*** WHY are you avoiding the hard issues? WHY are you only talking about the surface? WHY won't you let her know what is really going on?
*** What would happen if you walked into your next session and told her that you feel like you are being very resistant, and that makes you feel like a failure and like therapy isn't going to get anywhere. Maybe the two of you could come up with some ideas on what you are trying to avoid, and how you can conquer the resistance.
*** (Going out on a limb - this could be completely wrong, so feel free to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps you are afraid that you WON'T ever get better, that therapy CAN'T fix you. If you quit now, then you will never be in a position to know if that is true or not. Having it be proven true is what you fear - that there is no hope for you. By quitting, however, you are *guaranteeing* that therapy won't be able to help you. And shutting the door to the possibility that you could get better (which, if you are like me, is also a terrifying possibility).)
*** Therapy IS hard and painful work. But I have had a few (but enough) tastes of success so that I believe that the pain to get there will be worth it in the end.
With affection,
Falls.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:44:05
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
Mair, it's seemed to me that you've made large leaps in therapy in the past several months. That you're trusting your therapist more than you ever thought you would. So that while it may feel you're not accomplishing anything, from a third person's vantage point you most definitely are.
Perhaps you are like me in that you make haste slowly. And that it's better to concentrate on the little gains than worry about what you haven't yet accomplished. And realize that since you're so much farther along now than you were months ago, in a few months more you'll be even further along.
But if you do feel like you need to speed things up, writing down what you really feel and giving it to your therapist to read worked a lot for me. Including giving him posts from here. Gardenergirl's post got us past a roadblock that could have taken months without her help.
And if you do decide that it's time to quit, that therapy isn't helping you, then you have absolutely nothing to lose in terms of your therapist. Before you leave, knowing that you won't see her anymore, maybe you could open up and say all the things that you've kept hidden.
Really, what's the worst that can happen. I feel like I've gotten to know your therapist sort of third hand, and she sounds as if she genuinely cares about you. Are you afraid of losing that if you're open with her? You won't. You won't burst into flames from embarassment either. If you're afraid of the anger inside, I've been there. Nothing bad has happened to anyone because of my openness with my therapist.
Maybe you could start by figuring out what you're not saying. Then why you're not saying it. Then analyzing whether your reluctance to speak has a rational basis. Then discussing your reluctance with your therapist. I get the impression from your post that it's not so much that you feel confident you're ready to terminate as that you feel frustrated. Frustrated is a pretty reasonable feeling in therapy.
Altogether I think Fallsfall's post makes a whole lot of sense. More than mine probably. :)
And perhaps I'm biased pro-therapy. I really like that I feel there isn't anything I can't work out with my therapist, given enough time and patience at least.
Posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 18:13:10
In reply to Re: In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling) » mair, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:44:05
I saw my T today and was able to talk to her about alot of what I wrote. She told me I was right of schedule to want to terminate since I've been so blocked lately. I've been seeing her for 4 years I think and she and I both know that this is such a slow process for me and that if I stick it out to get to where we'd both like me to be, it's probably going to be years more. This used to horrify me more than it does now, although occasionally I'm still pretty horrified by the fact that things are so slow with me. Last fall I was faced with the prospect of losing my mental health benefits, and I realized how scary that is to me. I know that I'll be faced with this again every fall when my office renews its medical insurance. I think it's given me a sense of urgency about therapy, but hasn't helped to speed up the process at all.
I get to a place where things get difficult and I start to feel resistant, and I tend to think that I've gotten as far as I can go. She sees me struggle and has the confidence that I can get through this because I've come so far. Maybe this is the glass half empty and half full.
I don't know - she thinks we should analyze the resistance - I guess that seems a safer place to go rather than for me to obsess about all the things I can't say.
What was abundantly clear to me is that I could raise some of these things with her because I wrote about them here first, and got such great responses. I always feel that I express myself so much better in writing, and I'm not very spontaneous - I like to have things figured out before I talk about them or at least I like to have figured out a way to talk about them. I haven't been doing it alot here or anywhere.
This has all just been a useful reminder of what a wonderfully supportive place this can be and how valuable participation can be.
Mair
PS - Fallsfall - I want to respond more specifically to some of what you raised, but I've got to think about things first - are you sure you don't have a degree in clinical psychology?
Posted by fallsfall on March 11, 2004, at 21:28:58
In reply to Update and thanks, posted by mair on March 11, 2004, at 18:13:10
I am looking forward to hearing more about your therapy. I'm glad you had a good session.
Nope, my degrees are in Math. 8^)
Posted by 64Bowtie on March 12, 2004, at 11:30:58
In reply to In a Quandary (disjointed grumbling), posted by mair on March 10, 2004, at 22:15:26
Posted by mair on March 12, 2004, at 18:11:15
In reply to Am I welcome to respond to your posts??? (nm) » mair, posted by 64Bowtie on March 12, 2004, at 11:30:58
By all means, feel free - why would you think otherwise?
Mair
This is the end of the thread.
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