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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 12:54:11
In reply to Re: Safety, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2004, at 3:26:55
Do most patients get a nice comfy safe feeling with there therapist??....I musta been doing something
wrong!!....I am not even sure I know what safety feels like...I think if I WAS feeling safe I would recoginze it.
Kay-Len
Posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 13:00:31
In reply to Safety, posted by underthecs on October 28, 2004, at 21:16:19
Posted by shortelise on October 29, 2004, at 13:08:36
In reply to Safe (loud scream) I hate the word safe! (nm), posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 13:00:31
Poet, why do you hate the word safe? I'm not trying to therapize you, I really do just wonder.
ShortE
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 13:13:11
In reply to Safety, posted by underthecs on October 28, 2004, at 21:16:19
> Hi all. You know that warm, cozy, "everything is perfect as long as my therapist is right here with me" feeling? My therapist calls that safety. Is that what it is?
>
> What does safety feel like to you?Two potentially overlapping criteria: a) the absence of threats; and/or b) protection from threats.
Lar
Posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 13:38:34
In reply to Re: Safety » underthecs, posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 13:13:11
Safety is not high on the priority list for me.
For , now if I was caring for another person I wouldn't take risks with them...but risks can be exciting and fun...{not truly dangerous ones like hitchhiking ....but ..well I really like driving my car fast!!
Kay-Len
Posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 14:27:16
In reply to Re: Safe (loud scream) I hate the word safe! » Poet, posted by shortelise on October 29, 2004, at 13:08:36
Hi ShortE,
It's okay to try and therapize me.
I hate the word safe because hearing it doesn't make me feel it. *I want you to be safe, you need to stay safe, this is a safe place* are all wonderful statements, but they don't evoke my feeling safe.
It's like when my therapist and/or pdoc think I should go inpatient to stay safe. It would likely keep me safe from physical harm, but not the emotional damage I do to myself.
I guess I hate the word safe, because I don't feel safe anywhere. My T has asked if she can do anything to help me feel safer. Pdoc just asked the same thing when I told him I quit therapy, but went back. I have no answer.
Poet
Posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 15:39:12
In reply to Re: Safe (loud scream) I hate the word safe! » shortelise, posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 14:27:16
Poet ....I know what you mean....and I misunderstood and was talking about risk taking ..but what your talking about {please correct me if im wrong ..i8 have a hard time sometimes understanding...I do not think I ever feel safe myself ...Ive had to watch my back from day one ...I had a i cant spell it now but ...its mental and its the big bad one ...{so ive been told ..and he didnt like the idea of having a little sister steal his show...or his imaginary friends!!he ..killed my dog even.
Posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 15:43:28
In reply to Re: Safety » Poet, posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 15:39:12
Everyone ...please forgive my mistakes I am brand new here and I dont check good enough cuz im too anxious ...that last post was supposed to read I had an older brother with the mental prob...sorry
Posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 19:57:29
In reply to Safety, posted by underthecs on October 28, 2004, at 21:16:19
My therapist would call it safety too...we frequently talk about attachment and the need for a safe base. Some people call it resiliency, borrowing your therapist's strong core to shore up your own.
We've recently started talking about merging. I posted about how hard it is to leave the safety of his office sometimes and I told him this. He said he had been thinking about this in terms of merging and separating. We've been working together long enough now where often we do merge emotionally and I feel held and contained. So when time is up, I have to rip myself apart again and this is scary and painful. I totally agreed. He talked about allowing myself to take pieces of him with me, into my inner core to feel him with me. It actually has made it easier and safer to leave.
And then there is the whole atmosphere of his office, itself. I don't usually go at night. Monday I had a very late appointment, due to my schedule and he really wanted us to meet, so it was dark. I was nervous that this would trigger my defenses but he had all the lamps on and it was still up in the trees and still cozy. And it started to rain softly, which was a nice background. I told him I was just staying and shutting out all the bad things in the world. He was fine with that, he even pointed out the blanket on the couch.
Even with the struggles this week, he makes me feel safe. Which is probably why I miss it so intensely when it isn't there. *sigh*
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 29, 2004, at 21:41:25
In reply to Safety, posted by underthecs on October 28, 2004, at 21:16:19
I think you described what safety is very well. I guess it could be called *secure attachment* just as easily. It can be so hard for some of us to find it in therapy, whereas others just seem to naturally have it right from the beginning. I'm one of the people who has had to work really hard with my therapist to gain a feeling of safety with him. I've had many lonely, horrible sessions when I can hardly sense that he's in any way there for me, although I am always longing for that. Lately, we have spent many sessions on just those things- the moment to moment interactions with him- and how the adult and child *me's* keep moving from feelings of abandonment and hopelessness to ones of joyful connection. The connection part is quite new!
Going back to what I learned from the conference with Dr. Allan Schore, about a month ago: his way of thinking about this was that as the isolated unconscious parts of us, which carry the memories of childhood pain, neglect and abuse, begin to come in contact with the mind of the therapist, who, for his/her part is trying to hold all of our memories and feelings in his mind, so as to be really present with us, things begin to change in our brains- we grow new connections from the deepest parts of our right hemispheres, where the pain and memories reside,to the highest parts in the frontal cortex, which can make intuitive connections of all sorts with the therapist. (LONG sentence!).The result is safety, inner calmness and a secure attachment! Anyway, wherever we each have to start, that is the healing experience we all want and need to have.
I am feeling so happy, right now, because I left a Friday appointment knowing I was really connected to my analyst. It felt so wonderful. Best of all, the feeling is staying with me! This is just beginning to happen after 20 months of intense struggle on both our parts, so I hope my experience will give hope to everyone else who is also struggling with this. (To be realistic, I know I will gain and lose this sense of safety many, many times over the next months, but I'm so glad to be able to report that I've got it right now).
Posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2004, at 21:52:31
In reply to Re: Safety » underthecs, posted by Pfinstegg on October 29, 2004, at 21:41:25
I would say my T's office is a safe place, but I am just realizing that at least part of that is an illusion. I am at a point now where I can choose to keep going forward, but that will require me to give up the control I didn't realize I was still holding. Or, I suppose I can cut bait and stop.
It's really scary for me to think about continuing forward into unknown territory. I feel like I could easily follow and even predict where we were going before, but now...shudders...I just don't know. And that is scary (meaning not feeling safe) as he77.
gg
Posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 23:16:22
In reply to Re: Safety » Poet, posted by Kay-Len on October 29, 2004, at 15:39:12
Hi Kay-Len,
I'm so sad that your older brother made your world so unsafe. Mine never killed a pet, he likes animals, he just found pleasure in making my life miserable.
I wish I had answers as to how to feel safe. Though here on babble it is safe to talk about our fears and feelings, so I guess this is as close to safe as I can be. (for now, anyway.)
Poet
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 30, 2004, at 0:40:35
In reply to Re: Safety » Kay-Len, posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 23:16:22
When you've had these horrible, traumatizing experiences, it's the most intelligent choice to be wary and lacking in trust. From the point of view of your childhood selves, it would be reckless and dangerous to just walk into a therapist's office and start feeling trusting and secure. My T. pointed that out to me a number of times, and always emphasized that safety and security would be a goal of therapy, not a requirement for it. He allows me to feel as unsafe and insecure as I really am, with no pressure to trust him. I believe he feels that it happens slowly and naturally over the course of therapy. Poet, I think it's particularly hard when a therapist makes any sort of demand for trust. I know I would feel very inadequate (and criticized) if mine did that. He seems to know that people have to gradually "grow" it, and the timing isn't under anyone's control. The important thing is that you have it in your heart- in time you'll find a way to give it.
Posted by Froso on October 30, 2004, at 7:01:09
In reply to Re: Safety » underthecs, posted by Pfinstegg on October 29, 2004, at 21:41:25
Everytime I get these horrible thoughts of self abuse I feel safe that my therapist exists. But I can't say that when I'm actually there I feel safe, I'm usually too stressed. I hope this stress goes away soon and this feeling of connection with my T replaces it.
Posted by underthecs on October 30, 2004, at 9:15:35
In reply to Safety, posted by underthecs on October 28, 2004, at 21:16:19
so how do you carry this feeling of "safety" with you outside of session? that is actually what I am working on right now. I can have conversations with my T in my head, but I can't carry that "feeling" of warmth, caring, being held, etc. with me when I leave.
Poet: yeah, I actually hate that word too!
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 12:19:38
In reply to Re: Safety, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2004, at 3:26:55
To engender that feeling of safety, my therapist has to be fully and completely present and focused.
He's had his own problems lately, and while he shows up and listens, he's clearly not his usual self. I understand perfectly. But I end up frustrated that I'm looking for something that isn't available. Last time I just left (not physically, but emotionally) with fifteen minutes left to go.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 30, 2004, at 13:48:45
In reply to carrying it with you, posted by underthecs on October 30, 2004, at 9:15:35
>> so how do you carry this feeling of "safety" with you outside of session? that is actually what I am working on right now. I can have conversations with my T in my head, but I can't carry that "feeling" of warmth, caring, being held, etc. with me when I leave.
Good question. I haven't been able to do that yet to a great extent either. Usually (like a child looking back to ensure her mother is still there) I find some reason to email her in-between session, and that brief contact with her can sometimes hold me over until I see her again, but I can't seem to internalize it for a great period of time. There was one week though....it was a few weeks ago....I had a car accident and had to cancel my session that day. The next day, she emailed me and said she was thinking of me, and hoped I was ok. I emailed her back and thanked her and tried to express how much I needed to hear from her and how I appreciated her taking the time to write to me. That brief email exchange really felt nice...and for the first time (probably in forever) I *felt* cared for and "held" and connected to something/someone. The feeling lasted most of the week, and it was really nice and safe. Then, of course, we had session and everything went south from there. But it was nice while it lasted. I never told her about it, though.
Posted by daisym on October 30, 2004, at 16:10:56
In reply to Re: carrying it with you, posted by shrinking violet on October 30, 2004, at 13:48:45
I think you've hit on something here...that feeling good part that happens when you have support in between sessions or a really bonding session that brings you closer. Sustaining this good feeling is hard because as soon as you get back to work, it dissipates. Maybe our definition of safety should be expanded to include faith that we will feel good and cared for again, even as we simultanously feel anxious about what therapy brings up.
For my self, I've figured out that support feels good and therapy hurts. When we are working, I feel anxious and stressed and frustrated and weepy. When he is supportive, the little kid parts of me show up and say "ahhhh." But too much support gets the adult nervous. Achieving a balance has been critical to moving forward. When we get off balance, or out of sync (I want support and he wants to work) it is harder to internalize him in between sessions. Sometimes I'm just looking for that warm and fuzzy feeling. I also think that he isn't working as hard to facilitate the attachment, because I AM attached, however insecurely. But I miss that in some ways too. Working on the attachment has become part of therapy...
Still...it is reassuring to know that the connection is strong even in between sessions. I had a hard day where I picked up the phone to call him three times and hung up before leaving a message. I told him that I had done this and he said, "huh, you were on my mind yesterday. I must have felt you needing me." Yup, good strong connection. :)
Posted by Kay-Len on October 31, 2004, at 4:28:30
In reply to Re: Safety » Kay-Len, posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 23:16:22
Thank you Poet. I would feel bad if I didnt say this ...my {sick} brother did kill the dog ..but He ran over him with a car and I don't think he did it on perpose....BUT without a doubt he did love trying to make my life miserable. It seems odd now that im older....that I was capable of being so happy ...and so insecure at the same time....It is almost as if it bothers me more now than when it was happening ..also took a LONG time to be able to put any blame on my parents for allowing me to be subjected to that.
Thabks Again
Posted by Kay-Len on October 31, 2004, at 4:40:36
In reply to Re: Safety Poet and Kay-Len, posted by Pfinstegg on October 30, 2004, at 0:40:35
Pfinstegg.....I like what you had to say ...and thank you ...it helped me to realize ...I was afraid to be me with him....and how could we bond . If I {the real me} isnt truly present...yes your right ..about trust also..I take it almost to the point of paranoia ..then the oposite and get burned..I have a few pepole I trust on some issues ...but feel a need to totaly trust a person with all of my issues..{not sure if just one could do it}..*L*
thank you Pfinstegg
Posted by shortelise on October 31, 2004, at 20:37:16
In reply to Re: Safe (loud scream) I hate the word safe! » shortelise, posted by Poet on October 29, 2004, at 14:27:16
Ok, I see what you meant.
Don't you think that sometimes we have defenses because we need them?
Mine kept me "safe" for many years.
It's a paradox I can't explain.
ShortE
Posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 17:21:50
In reply to Re: Safety Poet and Kay-Len, posted by Pfinstegg on October 30, 2004, at 0:40:35
Hi Pfinstegg,
When I quit for two weeks and then went back, she said that I trust her 50 percent and we agreed that it's more than either of us thought I'd be able to.
My childhood self learned to trust no one and adult me can only trust so far. I think my therapist brings up trust when she gets frustrated. She welcomed me back and was happy to see me, so she must think that more trust will come if she gives it enough time. And goes super slow.
Poet
Posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 17:24:25
In reply to Re: Safe (loud scream) I hate the word safe! » Poet, posted by shortelise on October 31, 2004, at 20:37:16
Mine keep me *that word*, too. I build these walls around painful things and it's a hard wall to break down.
Poet
Posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 17:32:07
In reply to Needed defenses, posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 17:24:25
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 1, 2004, at 18:33:08
In reply to Re: Safety Poet » Pfinstegg, posted by Poet on November 1, 2004, at 17:21:50
It's so good you went back, and were welcomed. I'd say 50% trust is not too bad (thinking of when mine got down to about 10%, at best). She obviously was glad to have the chance to continue working with you. It sounds as though she is willing and able to allow you to be your real self, with all of the insecurity and uncertainty right out there for you both to work on. I do hope it goes really well.
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