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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
When I called to cancel two sessions this week due to my deadline, I was pretty much semi-hysterical both times. Although I was even worse at other moments. And I asked him to tell me everything would be ok. It's sort of a leaving session ritual we have when I'm not feeling well. And he always says it the same way, in the same tone, with the same intonations.
And he couldn't do it over the phone! Is it tied to his desk or something? He sounded all hearty. There was even an uplift at the end of the sentence like it was a question. How is it possible that he's so *bad* over the phone? I finally extracted something acceptable from him which calmed me down.
But his words of support were something along the lines of "You've always got through things like this before." which made me want to scream. Why is it so completely unreassuring to hear that I've always got through things like this before? Granted, there were some physical factors in play this time that usually aren't there. My body was letting me down. But even without that, I think that reassurance would not sit well with me. It made me have the fleeting thought that I should go out and get a new therapist who didn't realize I had always gotten through this before. Is it more belittling of the problem than reassuring? Is it like hearing that I've always gotten A's, so I should always be able to continue to get A's? Is it not acknowledging that I get so darned tired of always managing to get through it, and that sometimes I want to just quit, even though I'm simultaneously terrified that I won't be able to live up to my obligations?
Why on earth is that phrase so absolutely infuriating?
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 31, 2004, at 22:33:53
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
I think you've got a good point, Dinah. You really needed to have him validate how much stress you are under, with your sick parents, heavy work load, and not feeling well physically- all at once. It's a given that you keep going, no matter how awful you feel- you DO always get A's!. It's very important to respect your own feelings- from not feeling understood or validated, to even considering consulting another therapist- they are all completely valid. I think if feelings like this recur often, it's smart to follow your intuition about what will help you grow the most.
Posted by daisym on October 31, 2004, at 23:19:58
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
What is so absolutely infuriating is that you want someone to say it is OK if you don't get through it this time, not add one more person's expectation that you will. You sound like me last week. I swear -- it must be the lunar eclipse. No one seems to understand that even if we KNOW we can get through all of this, even if we pull ourselves together to work flat out and get it all done, a part of us needs hugs, and needs someone to say, "gee, it must be awfully hard to work under all that stress...how can I help you?"
I don't know what to do about the phone-side manner. I got lucky in that category. As much as I talk to my therapist on the phone I would be in trouble if he didn't do it well. I strongly suggest that you give him a picture of you to look at while he is talking to you. Maybe that will make a difference! :)
Don't work too hard and in the long run, it really doesn't matter if you don't do A work this time. A "c" is passing...even average. Give yourself a break.
Let me know if I can help.
Daisy
Posted by alexandra_k on November 1, 2004, at 2:13:13
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
> Why is it so completely unreassuring to hear that I've always got through things like this before?Hmm. Hume's problem of induction?
Posted by antigua on November 1, 2004, at 9:39:45
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
My T has stopped telling me that everything will be o.k., or maybe she never has actually said it, but I believed it. She won't do it, which makes me doubt, especially when I'm very fragile like I am now. If she doesn't believe it's going to be o.k. how on earth can I believe?
antigua
Posted by daisym on November 1, 2004, at 12:24:02
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before..., posted by antigua on November 1, 2004, at 9:39:45
I'm sorry you are feeling fragile. Is there anything in particular or just a hard patch? It seemed like you were doing well for awhile.
I'm better than I was so I feel like I can offer some support now, of course, this is 5 hours before therapy, who knows where we will go today? *sigh*
Shall I tell you a joke? :)
Daisy
Posted by fallsfall on November 1, 2004, at 15:00:23
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
You cancelled two sessions last week or in this coming week? I guess this confuses me because I thought that you were going to go regularly for a while.
"You've always got through it before" doesn't acknowledge how *hard* it is to get through EVERY time. It insinuates that getting through it is trivial. It is not trivial.
It is interesting to me that you are upset that he is not supporting you, while you are cancelling sessions.
Posted by antigua on November 1, 2004, at 15:11:39
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » antigua, posted by daisym on November 1, 2004, at 12:24:02
See new thread below so I don't infringe on Dinah...
antigua
Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2004, at 17:53:34
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on November 1, 2004, at 15:00:23
I had no choice about cancelling the sessions. If I had gone, I'd have missed the deadline. I was counting hours to see if it was even possible to make it. I figured Thurs afternoon, while stuck at the hospital with my dad, that it wasn't possible even if I could stay up all night to make the deadline as it was set. I was right. I made it twelve hours after the given deadline. There just weren't enough hours between then and the deadline. And I couldn't stay up all night. So I did cancel, but I called for support.
The first cancellation (Wednesday) was just as well. I thought cancelling would enable me to meet the Friday deadline with enough time to see him on Friday. But as it turns out, he wouldn't have been able to see me Wednesday because of his own problems. He'd have had to cancel.
And yes, it does seem trivializing. I brought it up with him today, he was quite flippant about it. He said something like "My bad" and when I mentioned it again told me I could shoot him if I liked for making an unhelpful comment. I was *not* being snippy, either. I was being calm and reflective.
Sigh.
This is not a high point of our relationship. :) But I have faith that we'll get back to a better spot.
Posted by fallsfall on November 2, 2004, at 6:25:36
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2004, at 17:53:34
Repeat after me (you?):
"But I have faith that we'll get back to a better spot."
Posted by Aphrodite on November 2, 2004, at 8:22:38
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2004, at 17:53:34
Oh wow. I can't believe how he handled your discussion of the issue. It's fine that he made a mistake, but his owning of it should have been a little better and more sincere. However, it sounds like he has been having a rough patch of his own. Maybe you should tell him he's gotten through it before and that you are frankly surprised he isn't back on top of his game yet. (OK, so I'm a little childish.)
I think it only proves that we need support systems outside of our Ts because they are human and oh so fallible, and it always seems to happen when we are most needy. I know I need more support; thank goodness for Babble. Dinah, do you have other people/comfort methods you turn to when your T is not at his best?
(((Dinah)))
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2004, at 12:03:21
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2004, at 17:53:34
Dinah, do you feel like telling us what's going on with your T in his personal life?
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2004, at 18:22:13
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 2, 2004, at 12:03:21
A member of his family is having health problems. They aren't life threatening, but they do take up a fair amount of his time. Not unlike my own situation. :) Except that I believe (hope for his sake) that his is not a long term problem. It's more an acute, not chronic, but as far as I can tell, not life threatening, problem.
I'm not sure whether the lack of attachment I'm feeling is because he's preoccupied, or if it's a continuation of the process that started before my life fell to pieces. He certainly does seem *real* to me right now, perhaps a bit too real. I think people should be careful what they wish for when they wish their therapist could feel comfortable and be genuine with them.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 16:43:20
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2004, at 18:22:13
I agree with you. It sounds as though he's allowing his own needs into the therapy situation too much. I think we do lose the intense feelings of attachment if we sense we are not being put first. That is regressive, but it seems to be part of what makes therapy a much more intense relationship than most of our other relationships. Can you bring this up with him? This isn't a good time to weaken your attachment, which has brought you such a long way over the years (and which you worked so hard to earn).
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 17:32:53
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 16:43:20
I think that's absolutely true. That's why the feelings come up in therapy that don't come up anywhere else. A good therapist can concentrate so fully on the client that it feels like being held.
I read about therapists who think about their laundry or things like that during therapy and I feel sorry for their clients. I am instantly aware if my therapist's attention wanders. It feels like the emotional arms containing me drop. And his arms have been dropping lately.
Today he seemed ok, but I didn't. I went in and instantly started feeling derealized and a bit dizzy. I kept asking him what I was supposed to talk about, and why was it that I came to see him. (No, not the obvious reason - that he is my therapist - but what I got out of it.) He was concerned, kept saying he didn't understand what I was asking, asked about other ego states. But that wasn't it. I don't know what it was. A mild panic attack maybe. I still am iffy on why I go and what I do when I'm there. But then I'm still a bit dizzy too, when I think about it.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 17:44:42
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 17:32:53
Oh, Dinah, I'm sorry this is happening right now. It sounds as though you really didn't feel *held*, or understood, or that his attention was really on what you needed it to be. Honestly, it does sound as though you had a period of derealization or dissociation because of the relationship not being right. I used to have them quite a lot- and occasionally still do. I KNOW I would have one any time, even now, if I did not feel held and understood every time I'm in there. It's shocking to realize how vulnerable we are with our therapists. I never get dissociated in real life, but it doesn't take too much for me to do it in sessions!
I just hope it starts getting like it used to be for you very soon.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 19:20:24
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 17:44:42
I just saw over on "Health" that you're not feeling well physically- it sounds like the first priority would be to get to the bottom of that. You may just not have the energy for therapy right now. Do take good care of yourself, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 21:25:13
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before...Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 19:20:24
Thanks Pfinstegg. I'm sure it's all interrelated. Everything seems so weird and faraway. And I fear I'm making some poor choices.
I see my doctor tomorrow. Hopefully she'll be able to weed out the physical causes.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 3, 2004, at 21:37:47
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before...Dinah » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 21:25:13
I'm glad you'll be seeing your doctor tomorrow. I'm sure she can help. Let us know?
Posted by JenStar on November 3, 2004, at 22:26:33
In reply to You've always got through it before..., posted by Dinah on October 31, 2004, at 21:57:55
hi Dinah,
I think it's horrible to hear "you've done it before" because maybe you don't know HOW you did it before -- sometimes we get thru stuff by hook or crook, or luck, or magic, or chance -- or so it seems after the fact, anyway! (At least that's how I feel sometimes...getting thru difficult things can feel almost like taking a step off a cliff and trusting that the wings will unfold by themselves, or that we'll automatically figure out how to right ourselves before we hit ground, like a cat...)
But things WILL get better...trust the pattern and trust yourself. Your wings and your cat feet will appear on time, on schedule, like they do. And be kind to yourself too -- I hope you're taking time out for yourself in some small ways. The holidays can be extremely stressful even during the best of times....so be gentle and nice to the Dinah inside. :)
I know I'm not always on the board, and when I am I sometimes get into tiffs here & there...but I definitely like you as a poster-person and wish you all the best. :)
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on November 4, 2004, at 23:15:26
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » Dinah, posted by JenStar on November 3, 2004, at 22:26:33
Hi Dinah,
I'm sorry that therapy doesn't feel good right now. I think I agree with some of the others who commented on feeling less attached. I had a similar experience recently. It felt to me like my T was just not 100 % "on his game" with me for a couple sessions in a row. He was much more quick to interrupt and start lengthy interpretations before I felt I had clearly communicated what I wanted to say. It was really irritating, because I'd have to wait him out or interrupt back saying, "not quite that but this..." and explain some more.At the time, I felt like perhaps he was getting tired of working with me and was bored with the same old issues. In a later session, just before I went to the conference, I was really cranky, especially when we were scheduling the next session. I dont' know if I was saying why am I here and what am I getting out of it, but I did feel that trying to fit in a session and cram all my clients into two days was too much of a hassle. So we skipped a week.
When I went back last week, it felt odd. I talked about how I felt cranky and off track, and told him some of what I had noticed about him. This week we talked more about it. I think I really came to realize that I had been idealizing him (in part 'cause he IS so good!), and that made me feel special to know that he cared for me and accepted me as I am. Once the idealization was broken, I no longer felt special and came to realize he had many clients, I'm not special, and he isn't perfect. UGH! It made me feel really rocky and vulnerable, and suddenly I feel like I don't know where we are going in the process. And not knowing where we are going means I have to trust him more, just when I am realizing that I do not trust him completely/idealize him. Ugh!
So I do think that instances like this can have a real impact on attachment. And then throw in external stressors like health and so on, and sheesh, no wonder it was hard.
Sorry to be so long here. I do hope that you and he can move together through this time. (I hope that for me and my T, too.)
Take care,
gg
Posted by daisym on November 5, 2004, at 15:52:13
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before..., posted by gardenergirl on November 4, 2004, at 23:15:26
It has been experience that these attachment disruption generally happen before some big leap in therapy...a new insight or a shift of some kind. Repairing and finding your way back makes the relationship stronger and stronger. I have faith that you will find your way back, as you said, you just have to trust him.
I think it is particularly hard when something hits us to remind us that we aren't their only client, even if we "know" it already. Disrupts that special feeling, as you've noted.
Therapy is work, no doubt. You are doing good work right now.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by gardenergirl on November 5, 2004, at 23:13:59
In reply to Re: You've always got through it before... » gardenergirl, posted by daisym on November 5, 2004, at 15:52:13
Thanks for the encouragement, Daisy. It helps.
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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