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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 18:06:35
Does this book discuss relationships with female therapists in any significant detail, or is it mainly about male therapists? I feel painfully attached to my female T, but I'm not *in love* and it isn't sexual in any way. Would this book still be helpful?
I'm presuming it is acceptable to ask this question here, as Bob selected this forum to list the book as a favorite. I do hope I am not redirected to another, less frequently visited board.
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2004, at 18:17:30
In reply to Question about In Session, posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 18:06:35
It talks about all sorts of attachments to both sexes of therapists. I think it would be helpful for male clients, too - despite the name. It's about having unexpected attachments to our therapists, not about any one particular type of attachment.
Posted by Daisym on November 2, 2004, at 19:47:36
In reply to Question about In Session, posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 18:06:35
I have a total maternal attachment to my therapist, even though he is a male. Nothing sexual about this. So the chapter about this really help me understand it more. I think there is a case study of a female/female diad in that chapter too. I strongly recommend this book.
Have you told your therapist how painful your attachment is? I feel like I cycle back through this discussion with mine every few months. We just went through it again, in a bigger, more painful way than in the past. But if I hadn't told him, if I had to suffer on my own, I think I would have quit therapy. And slowly I'm beginning to believe him when he says that the best way to handle all of this is MORE contact, not less. Just knowing he is there for me is calming.
Posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 20:34:14
In reply to Re: Question about In Session, posted by Daisym on November 2, 2004, at 19:47:36
No, I haven't been able to tell my therapist how painful it is. All I could manage was to ask for two sessions per week and to say that I was feeling *needy and dependent* when she asked why. She told me at that time to let her know if it ever became *too uncomfortable* for me. Heck, it was feeling like that right then. But I didn't tell her so because I was afraid her solution might be to say that it wasn't a good idea to meet more often.
Since I don't know much about attachments, I couldn't say for sure whether mine is maternal. All I know is that I ache for her between appointments and that when I'm with her it's all I can do not to grab her hand and hang on the whole time.
Posted by shortelise on November 2, 2004, at 21:21:25
In reply to Re: Question about In Session » Daisym, posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 20:34:14
I feel that way about my T, a man, though less intensely now that I am nearing the end of therapy.
If there's anything sexual about it, I've sublimated it to a point of imperception.
I think that attachment is a sign that therapy is working. When I told my therapist how very attached I felt to him a few years ago when it was so very intense, he never said anything about seeing less of me.
Isn't it important to look at why you think she'll reject you if you admit to her how much she means to you?
Hugs,
ShortE
Posted by Daisym on November 2, 2004, at 21:29:05
In reply to Re: Question about In Session » Daisym, posted by Skittles on November 2, 2004, at 20:34:14
Hard to sort out, I couldn't tell you the difference between maternal and paternal, except gender maybe. But the reason I refer to it as maternal is that it is this need to be emotionally held and kept safe. To explore my feeling and even act out, knowing that therapy and my therapist are cool with that.
And then there is the whole question of secure vs. insecure attachment. And the golden fantasy of being perfectly cared for. The whole thing is hard and can be very painful. Because knowing what it feels like to have someone care, makes the rest of the time seem empty and endless. Finding other people to make an emotional investment in will make this attachment less painful, because you will be able to find comfort elsewhere.
I'd talk to her. Good therapist know how to help you with this. And post here. It really helps me when I'm feeling lonely.
Posted by mandinka on November 3, 2004, at 3:40:29
In reply to Re: Question about In Session, posted by Daisym on November 2, 2004, at 21:29:05
Today I had a very relevant discussion with T3 on T attachment (T3 is male - kind of a Grizzly Adams type).
We were talking about how hurt I was by T1's sneaky way of terminating me and T3 said that more likely than not the fact that I had this daddy and mommy thing for T1 (there were sexual feelings too but I basically felt incredibly infantile, tongue-tied and vulnerable with T1) probably proved a bit too tempting for T1. T3 said that I shouldn't be surprised given "the way I look" as he put it. He was totally non-seductive while saying this I might add. I retorted that I'm no Miss Universe. I'm not a dog but there are definitely prettier women out there. Which is absolutely true. Still, T3 felt that I was good-looking enough to stir up some strong sentiments in a guy. Frankly, I'd rather T1 found me unattractive and stayed with me - if this is why he really left.
Anyway - T3 said that if he ever felt too attracted to a client, he would tell her, if she noticed anything, and ask if she felt they could continue. He would assure her he would never try to have sex with her and immediately seek help the moment he discovered the attraction. He laughed that therapists should have the disclaimer "I will not have sex with you" tattooed on their foreheads. Especially male therapists.
He recalled a situation where he felt an incredible attraction to a client in a group he was working with. He avoided this woman like a plague, consulted his colleagues and finally realised that the reason for this attraction was the shirt she wore which was just like the one his girlfriend wore when they went to bed. This moment of illumination effectively put an end to his desire.
I found it very refreshing that he would have the guts - while maintaining boundaries - to be upfront about his feelings. He assured me that he would never do to me what T1 had done and most certainly he'd be totally honest. He wondered why some people just don't get it that telling the truth is always the best solution. Given the amount of hurt and confusion I lived through because of T1's dishonesty I could do nothing but wholeheartedly agree. He said he wouldn't leave me and we would find a way to work through any problems that arise. Music to my ears! Gotta thank T2 (great woman) for setting me up with T3. I have two cool Ts now! :)
I've read Deborah Lott's book and thought it was very good. It's scary but I think everyone going into therapy should be aware of the pitfalls that might await them. This book definitely sheds light on some important issues that are more often than not swept under the carpet.
Posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 3, 2004, at 14:12:24
In reply to Attachment to T and vice versa, posted by mandinka on November 3, 2004, at 3:40:29
Mandinka, you have a very good therapist!
In Norway, where I have studied (clinical) psychology for more than 5 years, learning about attachments with clients is one of the main subjects. We have several hours of lectures in it, and a whole book + several articles. The attachment is one of the most important features in therapy, and all therpists should know a great deal about it.
It's not only the fact that attachment can be very strong, as you all tell about, but also how to avoid the traps as loosing controls over your own feelings as a therapist. I don't know how it is in the U.S., but at least in Norway it is illegal to sleep with your clients when you are a psychologist since your clients are in a very vulnerable situation. But a law is not enough to keep you from falling in love, an dthat is of course something that can happen... therapists are only humans too.
But also, attachment is the most important feature of the healing process, no attachment at all, and most likely you will have less positive effect of the therapy.
Good luck to all of you with your attachments.. :-)
Posted by daisym on November 3, 2004, at 15:10:09
In reply to Attachment to T and vice versa, posted by mandinka on November 3, 2004, at 3:40:29
I'm really impressed with his candor. You do have a cool therapist! :)
It is important to be able to talk about your attachment as well as the issues. I find we bounce back and forth between these discussions, mostly because I worry so much that my issues will be too much. A strong attachment gives me courage. And then I worry it is too strong. *sigh*
Please keep sharing stories. I learn so much.
Posted by Aphrodite on November 3, 2004, at 15:29:17
In reply to Re: Attachment to T and vice versa, posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 3, 2004, at 14:12:24
There are entire books on the subject of attachment? Wow! Please share the titles and the articles too if you have links. A lot of us are interested in this very complex subject. For me, attachment has been a total surprise that I don't quite understand.
Posted by mandinka on November 3, 2004, at 17:04:34
In reply to Re: Attachment to T and vice versa, posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 3, 2004, at 14:12:24
It is illegal in the US to sleep with a client too. There are two takes here - one that you have to wait at least two years before you begin to have any social contact with your ex-client. The other guideline says that you NEVER engage in a social relationship with a client after termination. Once a client, always a client. As T3 put it: "What if a client decides after ten years that he/she wants to do some more work?" A friend or lover cannot be a therapist.
There's a good example in Lott's book about a woman who fell in love with her therapist and after two years they had sex. The relationship turned out to be a big disappointment, because it was kept alive on transference and incomplete information about the T. I think this is the main problem with client-therapist extracurricular activities - they are built on the assumption that the person you get to know during the session is the entire person. Second, the ghosts of the past are summoned from inside the client and projected onto the therapist. This powerful, grand illusion is indeed an invitation for disaster.
My experience though is that the therapist, if a client notices attraction or if the therapist feels the attraction is too unbearable, should disclose those feelings to the client but first have a big heart-to-heart consultation with his or her professional peers, so the act of disclosure isn't the first step down the "slippery slope".
Sexuality is such a powerful force that if kept repressed and denied it is bound to be acted out one way or another - through anger or seductiveness. So, dear therapists, as sergeant Apone said to his marines in "Aliens": "Watch those corners!" and if confronted, try not to gaslight your clients. You expect honesty from them and should repay them with the same token imo. It's the sign of true respect.
Daisy, it's so nice to have a warm, fuzzy feeling when you're around your T, isn't it? Have I finally felt what safety means?! Me likey! From what you've written I'm sure your T can handle whatever feelings emerge inside you during therapy for him. It's important to keep the relationship secret-free, so no matter what, my sense would be that it's better to let it all hang out. :)
Posted by Sad Sara on November 5, 2004, at 17:29:14
In reply to Re: Attachment to T and vice versa » Crazy_Charlie, posted by Aphrodite on November 3, 2004, at 15:29:17
> There are entire books on the subject of attachment? Wow! Please share the titles and the articles too if you have links. A lot of us are interested in this very complex subject. For me, attachment has been a total surprise that I don't quite understand.
charlie cant answer because he is blocked, i would be interested in knowing the titles of the books myself though (and articles too), so lets remind him when he is back in a week (if he comes back?)
I sometimes think that the reason people that not study psychology never can find anything about the topic they are interested in is that they are not looking in bookshops that sell books for students of psychology. I think a lot of those books could be read by people that is not students too, but that it would be difficult for a person to pick outthe right book.... but sometimes, for these that are interested about these topics... google can be an alternative ;-)
Attachmant theory is one of the ground pilars in developmental psychology, so why shouldn't there be an interest for attachments also in other fields of psychology? Hehe.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2004, at 0:18:55
In reply to Re: Attachment to T and vice versa, posted by Sad Sara on November 5, 2004, at 17:29:14
> charlie cant answer because he is blocked, i would be interested in knowing the titles of the books myself though
When you're blocked, you're not supposed to post, so I'm going to extend your block another week.
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