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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
Well it really isn't her business. It was her idea to force me to see pdoc to begin with. It was either have her call 911 or agree to see a pdoc. He is/was still probably the lesser of the evils, but I don't want to see him anymore.
What I need is someone who will listen to me, and not just increase the dose every visit. Not to mention send me bills with handwritten notes on them telling me that I forgot an appointment and will be charged full price for it. Ouch. That's a hard hit in the temp employee pocket book.
I am tired of him telling me how difficult it is for him to just do meds management when he doesn't know what's going on in therapy. I barely talk in therapy, and no way I'm sharing a can barely talk to her about.
He's told me at the last three appointments, that he should call my T to talk about how I'm doing in therapy. I told him I didn't want him talking behind my back. This last time, he said he'd take notes and read them to me. Uh, huh, sure, nice and censored notes. That's when I decided to fire him.
I told my T that I fired pdoc, but I don't want to tell her why. I know that saying it's none of her business was rude and probably hurt her feelings. She asked if I was going to fire her. I said no.
Maybe I can just tell her that I don't trust pdoc to really understand what's right for me? She understands my trust issues. Though I'm afraid she'll suggest I see another pdoc. I hate those questions, and I honestly don't think that I need to be on a massive dose of Effexor XR like pdoc thinks I do. Once I get tapered down to a dose that I think my regular doctor can prescrible for me, I intend to see her. Pdoc gave me a three month prescription for Effexor and I know from meds board how to taper down safely. I don't want to tell T about babble and how I know all this stuff about meds. So I will have to leave the reduced meds out of why I fired pdoc if at all possible.
I know that T cares about me and it is her business that I fired pdoc. Any ideas of what I can tell her to avoid her worrying about me, and worse, yet, calling pdoc? I signed something months ago saying they can talk to each other without my permission, so I can't stop her.
I see her Thursday evening. Any help is welcome.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on February 8, 2005, at 19:33:28
In reply to Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
((((Poet))))
I'm sorry you're having a hard time with this right now.
The first thought that came to mind after reading your post is this: Even though you may not trust your pdoc (yet), do you trust your T enough to tell you the truth? If so, then perhaps you can try to share with your T what really happened and why, and then allow the two to speak with the caveat that your T will honestly tell you what was discussed between the two of them each week (or however often). Perhaps you can even have some say in what specifically your T can tell your pdoc....Perhaps your T will be able to give enough info to the pdoc for him to help you more, but not so much that you feel compromised or uncomfortable. Remember, they are trying to help you and need information in order to do so....Your pdoc isn't trying to "get dirt" on you, or work against you. He works for you, as does your T, and he seems like he cares enough to want to help you more. It could be a good thing that he feels this way, rather than just pushing pills in your lap and not caring enough to know more specifics.
Just a thought....I hope I didn't upset or offend.
Email me if it would help. :-)
Take care,
SV
Posted by underthecs on February 8, 2005, at 19:34:37
In reply to Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
You can always rescind permission for them to talk. Don't have much else to offer. I haven't met a pdoc yet that I like.
Posted by ghost on February 8, 2005, at 20:41:54
In reply to Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
i always say i do "research" about meds and disorders. they don't need to know about babble, per se.
it's a tough situation, but i think the T should recognize that the pdoc wasn't right for you. it'd be nice if you could find a pdoc who also does counselling, but those are few and far between, i've learned. at least around here. i always feel like a piece of meat going into pdoc's offices... like cattle, or something. my first pdoc just upped and upped my meds.. to what i know was an unsafe dose of the drug. i was so sick. i told the new pdoc that off the bat and said i didn't just want to be treated like that again.
i think you have a right to demand what's right for you. i might've been snippy too about the T knowing why the pdoc was fired.
i have no words of advice or wisdom, but i just wanted to say good luck.
ghost
Posted by fallsfall on February 9, 2005, at 9:45:50
In reply to Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
It sounds like you are determined to do this all on your own. You don't want help from your ex-pdoc, and you don't want help from your therapist. Nobody knows what is good for you, but you. Boy, can I relate!!!!!
Why do you think I've read more Psych books out of my Univ. library than most PhD candidates? Why do you think I spend hours and hours online researching things? I do it because I'm the only one I can trust to make good decisions for me.
But I *have* (just recently) gotten over this hump. It *is* possible (though I was sure it wasn't).
I think I got to a place where it was clear to me that I *DIDN"T* know what to do for myself. That, no matter how much I read, I was not going to be able to cure myself. That I was too close to the situation, and in order to get better, someone who had a more balanced view of the world (i.e. who could see beyond my blinders) needed to help me.
I've never had "trust" issues. I tell my therapists everything, but I didn't actually give them permission to tell *me* anything that I didn't agree with. I guess two things needed to happen. First I needed to have confidence in my therapist's skill. He gave that to me by demonstrating competence in small ways over the first year that I saw him. Second, I needed to accept that *I* couldn't "fix" me by myself.
Does this sound familiar to you? Are you in the same kind of situation as me? If so, then I would encourage you to work hard to trust your therapist. Do you believe that she wants only things that are for your benefit? Do you believe that she is skilled? If so, then you might try, each time you see her, to push a little bit what you tell her (and it takes *forcing*). Make a conscious decision that you will try to let her help you. If she *is* skilled, then over time you will see that those risks have payed off and you will be able to trust her more.
I guess that if you *can't* force yourself to tell her stuff, that you should be right up front about the fact that you can't do that.
It is scary to trust someone with something as important as our sanity. But, I don't know about you, but *I* haven't done such a good job by myself with my sanity as I would want so far. It is time for me to get some help. And I am finding that it is a relief to be able to do that.
If this all doesn't apply to you, then you can just ignore it all. Your post just struck a nerve with me... (and it was helpful for *me* to articulate all of this - so thanks!)
Posted by shrinking violet on February 9, 2005, at 9:56:17
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long) » Poet, posted by fallsfall on February 9, 2005, at 9:45:50
Wow Falls.....I feel the exact same way! Which is probably why I push my T and my team away so forcefully, and why I can be so "stubborn" and resistant to anything they try to do to help. It *does* take a lot of "forcing," at least for me....and even then I haven't been able to tell my T much, at least not verbally. I'm going to try harder, though. I think I am slowly realizing that maybe I haven't done such a great job in taking care of myself all of this time (well, I did what I had to do, but now those defenses are building up on me), and I need to put some faith and trust in others who MIGHT know a BIT more than I do. ;-)
Thanks for your post.
And Poet.....I'm sorry if my response was off the mark. It is possible your pdoc isn't right for you, and I may have been pushing my tendency to resist onto you. I hated my first pdoc, but I really like my current one....she's knowledgeable and caring and sweet, and I'm trying to give her a chance, which I guess is what I was asking you of yours. Do what's best for you, of course.Take care.
Posted by Aphrodite on February 9, 2005, at 13:23:59
In reply to Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by Poet on February 8, 2005, at 18:45:04
Poet, I can really relate. My T, who is usually very gentle, was quite adamant that I see a pdoc in order to continue my work with him. I went through 3 lousy, horrible pdocs that made my situation worse, so I know how you must feel. They were not empathetic at all. I also hated the idea of my T and the pdoc talking about me. It had the feel of 2 grown-ups conferencing about a problem child. That image, however unfounded, stripped me of my strength and dignity.
I almost gave up. Luckily, my 4th pdoc was wonderful. He was a great combination of medically interested and skilled and interested in my therapy. He was nice and very easy to talk to. And since that has been the case, I do not see the need for now for he and my T to speak. I guess I just wanted to say that nice pdocs, to my surprise, do exist.
I had tried to get meds from my PCP, but in my case she was just not all that knowledgable. Really, I think it's best to be treated by a pdoc if a good fit can be found for you.
I think you have to trust your instincts. You could tell your T that you keep them separate so that a pdoc can give you a "clean" and objective second take on your situation. I do hope you can find someone to help.
Just wanted to let you know I understand the pain of the situation you're in. (((Poet)))
Posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 20:28:10
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long) » Poet, posted by shrinking violet on February 8, 2005, at 19:33:28
Hi SV,
You didn't offend and aren't off the mark, either. I think that I frustrate pdoc like I frustrate my T, by not talking.
I think my T would honestly tell me what pdoc asked and what she said. She offered to talk to him from the beginning, it's me who wants to keep them far apart.
I feel like a therapy failure to begin with and the idea of them talking behind my back just intensifies that feeling. I know it really wouldn't be behind my back as T would be truthful, but to me it's like revealing my secrets to someone that I don't want them revealed to. Silly, I know, he's a pdoc, but that's the high caliber of therapy failure I am.
I'll try to talk to T tomorrow about what's really behind my firing pdoc. I did tell her a few weeks ago that I wanted to taper off meds and she looked worried, but didn't say anything other than to ask when I next saw pdoc.
Thanks for your help. I may email you before the week is up.
Poet
Posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 20:34:28
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by underthecs on February 8, 2005, at 19:34:37
I didn't know I could rescind permission. Thanks.
Poet
Posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 20:42:50
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long), posted by ghost on February 8, 2005, at 20:41:54
Hi Ghost,
Pdoc does do therapy, he's suggested I see him for both meds and therapy. Problem is that insurance would run out long before I trusted him enough to really say anything and he doesn't have reduced fees.
I won't tell T about babble. I'll just I did research on meds and hope that she trusts me enough to know that if I start falling apart I will see another pdoc if a regular doc can't help me.
Poet
Posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 20:56:49
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long) » Poet, posted by fallsfall on February 9, 2005, at 9:45:50
Hi Fallsfall,
I have been determined not to rely on anyone for anything for my entire adult life. Emotionally and financially. I just started talking about this in therapy. My T says we need to rewrite my life mission statement. That I stay in therapy because what I need to receive from the experience is to trust someone. Let myself be dependent on someone for help.
Everything you've said about yourself really seems to apply to me.
I haven't done a very good job keeping sane by myself. My coping mechanisms are not physically or mentally healthy.
Thanks for telling me your experience and that you were able to overcome your resistance. I need to learn that it's okay to let someone give me a gentle nudge in the right direction for me to leap over those I must be independent hurdles.
Poet
Posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 21:12:27
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long) » Poet, posted by Aphrodite on February 9, 2005, at 13:23:59
Hi Aphrodite,
I feel just like a problem child. *Dear parent, your daughter is failing math...* Only it's that I am failing two subjects: therapy and meds management.
I realize that I may have to see a pdoc as I may need someone with more expertise than my family meds doctor can offer for meds management. Maybe I can do some research this time on their approaches. I was forced to take the one I have because he was covered under my old and new insurance. I hate managed health care!
Thanks for your help and understanding. I'm sorry you've been where I am at, but it's good to know that you made it through all right.
Problem Child Poet
Maybe I should change my name...
Posted by shrinking violet on February 10, 2005, at 10:00:26
In reply to Re: Fired pdoc, told T none of her business (long) » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on February 9, 2005, at 20:28:10
I think I frustrate my psych too (and my medical doc, and my N, and of course my T...). I'm convinced they all roll their eyes and sigh just before my appointments. I'm also feeling pushed around by them lately, so that just makes me more angry and defensive (and tight-lipped), which doesn't help. My T said she feels useless to me....It hurts so much that I make her feel that way. :-(
Anyway, I just wanted to say I can relate to what you've said and how difficult it is. I wish I could fix it for you. My team talks about me also, and I don't always get to know details of what they say. I'm getting a bit used to it, but it's hard, especially knowing that whatever I tell one of them, the others will most likely find out in some way (phone calls, team meetings, or through my chart, etc). My T has even told me she's discussed me and my case with colleagues at the center and those who are personal friends with her (once when she was out to dinner with one of them). She's even paid for consultations, although I'm not sure she gained anything from them. It seems like my T "enjoys" (or feels compelled) to discuss me with others almost as much as I talk about her. I think she needs some sort of validation....But that's opening up a whole other discussion. :-)
I'm sorry you're having a harder time right now. I remember a while back you were having an easier time talking to your T....What changed?
And you aren't a therapy failure, Poet. If you are, then I am too. Not everyone can sit down and talkabout themselves. I don't know about you, but it helps knowing that there are others like me out there, that I'm not the only person in the universe who can't talk and share things about herself. And it isn't just us....It's our experiences, etc, that have made us who we are, including being afraid to give too much of ourselves to someone else. I guess we can't be blamed for feeling like we need to protect ourselves, can we? Try to be gentle on yourself, ok?
Email me if you'd like, I'd love to hear from you.
Best,
SV> Hi SV,
>
> You didn't offend and aren't off the mark, either. I think that I frustrate pdoc like I frustrate my T, by not talking.
>
> I think my T would honestly tell me what pdoc asked and what she said. She offered to talk to him from the beginning, it's me who wants to keep them far apart.
>
> I feel like a therapy failure to begin with and the idea of them talking behind my back just intensifies that feeling. I know it really wouldn't be behind my back as T would be truthful, but to me it's like revealing my secrets to someone that I don't want them revealed to. Silly, I know, he's a pdoc, but that's the high caliber of therapy failure I am.
>
> I'll try to talk to T tomorrow about what's really behind my firing pdoc. I did tell her a few weeks ago that I wanted to taper off meds and she looked worried, but didn't say anything other than to ask when I next saw pdoc.
>
> Thanks for your help. I may email you before the week is up.
>
> Poet
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