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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:40:58
In reply to Re: sorry guys (poss trigger), posted by sunny10 on February 25, 2005, at 11:41:26
> oh my gosh, you sound just like me! That's why I left therapy...
((((Sunny))) Of course, I guess a lot of people struggle with this.
>I just don't get the whole "maintenance" thing, either...
I guess they don't have the time / energy to offer any more and they are afraid they will make me worse. So by default they pretty much keep it light.
> It just doesn't feel enough for me that I can stop myself from killing myself! Isn't life supposed to be more than that?
Yeah. Thats what I figure too.
> I for one am so glad that at least you have the assessment situation to give you some hope. And if it doesn't work out, you, me and Susan47 will sit around on Babble hugging a lot...Thankyou. Is there any hope for you?
> At least I found Babble- people who actually care about other people... and understand.Yeah. I don't know where I'd be without it; without you guys.
> I'm praying hard for you on the whole assessment thing...Thanks. Your support means a great deal for me.
I was thinking a bit this morning that there are people worse off. People with no hope. People who don't even have an internet connection. Dwelling on it too much is a bit too hard. But dwelling on it a little helps me feel a little bit better about my situation.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:41:26
In reply to Re: sorry guys (poss trigger), posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:40:58
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:53:20
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 13:20:03
All the psychologists (who deliver therapy) are CBT oriented. p-docs have psychodynamic training but they aren't really supposed to give therapy, they are supposed to prescribe medication.
I agree with all you say. CBT is not for me. I have made it clear that I don't want to do that again and other people seem to agree that it is not suitable for me. But getting anything else out of the public service seems to be fairly much impossible.
I saw a p-doc for the 'brief supportive' thing fortnightly last year. This year my current p-doc made a big deal of assigning time to see me weekly. But it is still the 'brief supportive' stuff.
And I have decided that despite what he says to my face he does not want to treat me. He is showing me that (fairly much on a weekly basis) in a horribly passive agressive way - via his behaviour.
'forgetting' to turn his phone off.
'forgetting' to turn up.
'forgetting' to do anything he has told me he would do during the week.I pull him up pretty much every time now.
Say 'you don't have to apologise, I am just bringing it to your attention so you realise that that happened'.
He swings between 'I am sorry' and 'I cannot defent myself, it is inexcusable' and vehemently defending himself 'management constraints *whine*'. I know it is hard for him too. I'm not mad at him. But I do think he is fairly hopeless. He sees me because he is concerned what I will do if I am not working with anyone.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 16:00:48
In reply to Oh, and I forgot... » alexandra_k, posted by 10derHeart on February 25, 2005, at 15:16:35
Thanks. Really. Thank you.
I do worry sometimes about posting all this stuff, but yeah, it is always up to other people whether they choose to read it and whether they choose to respond to it. If everyone just ignored me I am sure I would stoppit ;-)
And it is good for me to get it out.
And when people reply it helps me feel cared about. Then things don't seem so bad or so hard.
And people say helpful stuff and supportive stuff and stuff that helps you know that other people understand.Now I am raving...
But thank you. Very much.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 16:08:14
In reply to Re: I feel so very tired... » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 15:14:51
> But in a way isn't it good to see what good therapy can be?
I don't know Dinah, I don't know. It is such a mixed blessing. This is what I found hard a while back. Reading other peoples posts on this board and realising that some other peoples experience of therapy and of therapists was so very different from mine. Hard. I had to stop reading here for a while. Sometimes I still have to avoid stuff.
>You might not get it right now, but maybe if you to study in the US it will be available to you.
Yeah. But I can't afford to have everything hang on that. I need to be okay if I don't get in. I have to be okay. I am thinking it is a bad sign that I haven't heard anything yet. They may have sent out the first round of offers already...
> I don't suppose you talked to her about your frustration?
I said that I just wanted to work with someone who wanted to work with me. She said that she was sure they could find some registrar who would be keen to work with me, but that wouldn't be good for either of us. That I needed someone with some experience. Someone who could commit to working with me for as long as I needed them.
I said that I wished I could work with her.>Can you write her and see if she has any suggestions?
No. I am not supposed to contact her. She was paid to conduct an assessment and write a treatment reccomendation to community mental health. That is all.
Posted by Susan47 on February 25, 2005, at 16:10:28
In reply to Re: sorry guys (poss trigger), posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:40:58
And You mustn't dwell on anyone who might be worse off. The fact that you're even thinking about that shows what an effort you're making .. you could easily be worse off, by not being aware, by not wanting more for yourself. The fact that you DO want more is what makes your fight worthwhile, is why you SHOULD be getting the help you need.
Posted by Susan47 on February 25, 2005, at 16:16:06
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 15:53:20
I'm pretty much positive my ex-t was CBT oriented and had no clue *what* to do with me. He says lately that he was trying to build my trust. I don't know. He pulled out all the stops in the passive-aggressive behaviour department.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 16:19:43
In reply to Re: sorry guys, posted by Susan47 on February 25, 2005, at 16:16:06
> I'm pretty much positive my ex-t was CBT oriented and had no clue *what* to do with me. He says lately that he was trying to build my trust. I don't know. He pulled out all the stops in the passive-aggressive behaviour department.
Heh heh. Let me guess...
He was trying to build your trust by telling you all about your faulty thinking habits???I think I'd be fairly fustrated myself if I really believed CBT was all that and then had to treat people via that.
Yukko.(No offense to people who like it.)
Posted by Susan47 on February 25, 2005, at 16:20:10
In reply to Re: I feel so very tired... » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 16:08:14
I had to avoid stuff on this board as well, alexandra, for exactly the same reasons. It hurt to see the therapy experience others were having, the one I needed to have and wasn't getting, didn't know how to make that happen... I tried so very very hard to make it happen, geez I practically wiped the floor with myself.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 16:23:30
In reply to I feel so very tired..., posted by alexandra_k on February 24, 2005, at 21:34:10
(((Alexandra))),
I am sorry you are being given the bum's rush in terms of therapy options. I live in Canada, and I know how frustrating a public system can be. I am sure it is hard to remain optimistic after all you have been through, but keep trying to hold on to some glimmer of hope that you will get the therapy you deserve. You are remarkably resilient and strong.
I wonder (and I am sorry if these are annoying and idiotic suggestions) if you can work something out with this therapist that did your assessment. I don't know, but perhaps she might be able to travel to you (to overcome that obstacle) and perhaps, to avoid the public system and go private, you could discuss alternative payment methods with her (some sort of sliding scale, you doing research for her in lieu of payment, etc.).
Anyways, I will keep my fingers crossed for you. My thoughts are with you. Keep fighting the good fight.
Tamara
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 16:46:02
In reply to Re: sorry guys » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 16:19:43
I think it is about getting the right fit for you at the right time. I understand it might hurt to see other people's positive experiences. IT was hard for me too to see other people seeing their therapists every week etc before, when I had to rely only on emails.
Alexandra - is there an option that you could afford a private therapist for sometime? Maybe take 2 - 3 months with a private practitioner with a different orientation and once you feel comfortable enough, you can come back to public system and CBT if you need to?
OR is private practice totally not affordable?
> > I'm pretty much positive my ex-t was CBT oriented and had no clue *what* to do with me. He says lately that he was trying to build my trust. I don't know. He pulled out all the stops in the passive-aggressive behaviour department.
>
> Heh heh. Let me guess...
> He was trying to build your trust by telling you all about your faulty thinking habits???
>
> I think I'd be fairly fustrated myself if I really believed CBT was all that and then had to treat people via that.
> Yukko.
>
> (No offense to people who like it.)
>
>
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 18:31:18
In reply to Re: I feel so very tired... » alexandra_k, posted by TamaraJ on February 25, 2005, at 16:23:30
Thanks.
Sorry to be so negative... But I really don't think it would be possible for me to work with her. She charges more per session than I make in a week (well... when I am living off my student allowance anyway), and I live a couple of hours drive away.
I will just have to hope that she knows of someone in this region. And that they will be prepared to negotiate with community mental health so I can work with them.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 18:39:16
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 16:46:02
Thanks. It is good to know (in some kind of perverse way) that other people find it hard to hear other peoples positive experiences sometimes too. I thought it was just me being selfish. :-(
> Alexandra - is there an option that you could afford a private therapist for sometime? Maybe take 2 - 3 months with a private practitioner with a different orientation and once you feel comfortable enough, you can come back to public system and CBT if you need to?
All the clinical psychologists in NZ are CBT trained. CBT slightly outperformed other varieties of psychotherapy (overall) with respect to degree of improvement for comperable numbers of sessions and so the public system has decided that it would be unscientific to deliver anything else.
So when it comes to other varieties of psychotherapy you have councellors who don't have bachelors degrees, councellors who do have degrees (but aren't qualified to deal with mental illnesses) or p-docs who charge the earth.
> OR is private practice totally not affordable?No. Not for me. Not unless someone is willing to negotiate. I can contribute a certain amount (not very much). If they can offer reduced rates and community mental health can pick up the difference then that is the only way.
I will not go back to CBT.
It did me more harm than good.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 18:40:35
In reply to Re: I feel so very tired... » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on February 25, 2005, at 16:20:10
Yeah. It is hard.
I don't know what you have to do...
I feel like there must be magic words but I dont know what they are.> I had to avoid stuff on this board as well, alexandra, for exactly the same reasons. It hurt to see the therapy experience others were having, the one I needed to have and wasn't getting, didn't know how to make that happen... I tried so very very hard to make it happen, geez I practically wiped the floor with myself.
>
Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 18:44:55
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 18:39:16
I'm so frustrated on your behalf. I'm sure it happens here in America too, if you can't afford therapy. I'm currently spending a fair share of my salary on therapy, even with my various health plans. I couldn't do that if my husband weren't earning enough to pay most of the expenses.
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 18:47:17
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 18:39:16
Is NZ as in New Zealand?
If you cannot afford private practice, and if you don't want CBT, then the remaining option is babble. Write here as often as you wish and maybe all of our brains put together might make a decent substitute for you in the meantime. None of us are qualified but lot of us do have some common sense. And maybe it will help you till you get a footing enough to go on with CBT.
Plus you have the luxury of complete anonymity so feel free to write as much as you want. We will help you.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 19:00:57
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 25, 2005, at 18:44:55
> I'm so frustrated on your behalf. I'm sure it happens here in America too, if you can't afford therapy. I'm currently spending a fair share of my salary on therapy, even with my various health plans. I couldn't do that if my husband weren't earning enough to pay most of the expenses.
Yeah... I guess I just need to try to find myself a rich husband ;-)
(That was a joke. Really).
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 19:02:40
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 18:47:17
> Is NZ as in New Zealand?
Yup.
> If you cannot afford private practice, and if you don't want CBT,Well, there is also the point that none of them would touch me with a 10 foot pole...
>then the remaining option is babble.
yeah.
not the same.
but a million times better than nothing,
it is true.
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 19:25:57
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 19:02:40
From your other post, you seem very logical. So why is it that CBT is not useful for you?
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 19:36:29
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 19:25:57
> From your other post, you seem very logical. So why is it that CBT is not useful for you?
Hmm.
You are in intense distress
Therefore your cognitions must be faultyThis is true because
Faulty thinking CAUSES intense distress
And implies that
Faulty thinking is the only cause of intense distress
In the process of dragging my 'faulty cognitions' out of me they require me to JUSTIFY my distress. In such a way that I endorse a faulty cognition which is then used to beat me over the head with as an example of my faulty logic. If I resist this process, I am being resistant and cannot be helped.
It is too invalidating of my experience
I am required to come up with 'acceptable' goals that I am unable to do
It insists on focusing on the presentI have just had a lot of bad experience with very rigid therapists.
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 19:46:54
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 19:36:29
You seem to be smart, so do you have an explanation yourself as to why you are in intense distress? Something you believe is not due to your faulty thinking as they say, but something which is external or deeply emotional for you? Or is there no other valid explanation that you can think of yourself. Sometimes we are our own best doctors.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 20:46:31
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 19:46:54
> You seem to be smart, so do you have an explanation yourself as to why you are in intense distress? Something you believe is not due to your faulty thinking as they say, but something which is external or deeply emotional for you?
Traumatic memories.
Ruminations.
Frustration that my 'need' aren't being met.
Because my nervous system is wired up to 'very reactive'...
I do see how 'faulty thinking' can come into play sometimes.
But not always, and not as a matter of definition.
And to beat me over the head with it doesn't help me be receptive to the idea.
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 21:17:12
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 20:46:31
I understand the frustration of being fully blamed and asked to be fully responsible for the distress that you are in even when it is so obvious that you have had traumatic memories and that you are not fully in control of them.
Sometimes people don't understand that external circumstances and events do have a lot of influence in how you end up feeling. Thoughts can only control upto 60 - 70 % of how you feel. Rest of the feeling is just that - feeling. And our subconscious and emotional self is always more powerful than our logical self. Therapists sometimes seem to overlook that part. If we could all be made to feel perfectly well just by manipulating thoughts, we would all become equal to computers.But nevertheless, we do have the power to change our feelings to a large extent by manipulating our own thought patterns and taking some actions that will help alleviate little bit of suffering. Is it possible to take the good part out of what your CBT therapists say and apply it for now to relieve some distress for yourself? And leave the rest to be answered for a later time when you have more money at your disposal to go to a good therapist?
>
> Traumatic memories.
> Ruminations.
> Frustration that my 'need' aren't being met.
> Because my nervous system is wired up to 'very reactive'...
> I do see how 'faulty thinking' can come into play sometimes.
> But not always, and not as a matter of definition.
> And to beat me over the head with it doesn't help me be receptive to the idea.
>
>
>
Posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 21:55:22
In reply to Re: sorry guys » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 20:46:31
I just thoguht of something which might help you. While you wait to work on things out with some therapist, meanwhile do what you can do to atleast feel temporarily better.
Try not to ruminate. If you catch yourself ruminating, distract yourself. It helped me immensely.
And reach out to others and try to help others as much as possible. As I said in the other thread, it has helped me hugely in not thinking about my own issues.
Stop doing anything which makes you feel sad and distressed - don't see sad movies, don't listen to sad or pathos songs and don't associate with people who invoke negative feelings in you. Working on your things is long term solution, but temporarily you can do certain things to feel little better. I used to watch movies which were very sad and read novels which were all somehow complicated and lie listening to songs which were sadly romantic and cry. Just the simple step of stopping that and starting to see comedy movies, and movies like Sound of music, Tarzan, Charlie Chaplin, Lion King, Finding Nemo, and other disney movies and listening to songs like Michael Jacksons songs made my mood much better.
I believe you should find some good therapist and work on underlying issues definitely, but meanwhile you can try to make your life a little easier with these simple and effective steps.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 23:02:16
In reply to Re: sorry guys » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on February 25, 2005, at 21:55:22
Thanks for your post.
I went through a year of DBT (a modified version of CBT) and learned a lot of 'coping' strategies there. They are how I get by. Distraction and mindfulness. Doing things to keep my mind off stuff as best I can.
I will endure.
Some days are better than others.
I'll just try not to fall into a depression over it.
Maintenence. There is always maintenence...
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