![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 11:00:10
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by partlycloudy on July 28, 2005, at 9:30:15
Maybe we don't ever get over it. But I think I have to learn how to live with the hurt. It feels like my chest is going to explode sometimes.
I wish taking care of others could provide the nurturing I'm looking for. But not this time...it isn't working this time.
I'm sorry you are hurting too.
Posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 11:08:05
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 10:48:39
Don't you want to believe that you can have the freedom of choosing what you will and won't do, to be yourself completely and still get nurtured from a partner in a grown-up way?
I'm struggling with this, I'm not sure I believe it either. It might go back to what I wrote a month ago, about my little girl feelings being more acceptable to my therapist than my adult ones. I believe children should be taken care of, nurtured, loved and kept safe.
Or maybe, it is about being loveable at all. Maybe I think noone can/will take care of me because I'm not worth loving. *I* don't matter, I never really did. The things I can do and did do matter. Not me. And that is a very, very painful concept when you include your mother in this group. And your husband.
Posted by muffled on July 28, 2005, at 11:14:12
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » Dinah, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 10:41:39
> Maybe it isn't about growing up, maybe it is about the ability to self-soothe and the tantrum is I don't want to soothe myself right now -- I want YOU to do it!!
>
> Or something like that...
>
>
> I've been thinking about mid-life, existential crisis theory and why it looks like such irresponsible behavior taking over. I think it is regression and an attempt to find new ways to self-soothe. To be a different kind of grown up.Now how can this stuff be bad. Its so nice to know I'm not the only nut on the tree. Thanks for your reply.
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 11:26:49
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » Dinah, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 11:08:05
> Don't you want to believe that you can have the freedom of choosing what you will and won't do, to be yourself completely and still get nurtured from a partner in a grown-up way?
But if I have the freedom of choosing, and being myself completely, then I've done just that. (Beam)
No, I don't want to be nurtured in a grown-up way. Ick.
>
> I'm struggling with this, I'm not sure I believe it either. It might go back to what I wrote a month ago, about my little girl feelings being more acceptable to my therapist than my adult ones. I believe children should be taken care of, nurtured, loved and kept safe.
>
> Or maybe, it is about being loveable at all. Maybe I think noone can/will take care of me because I'm not worth loving. *I* don't matter, I never really did. The things I can do and did do matter. Not me. And that is a very, very painful concept when you include your mother in this group. And your husband.Depends on the mother and the husband. You are worth loving, Daisy. We love you. Your mother you had no choice about. I sometimes want to kick myself about my husband, but... He has many fine and useful qualities. He takes good care of us. I'm lucky to have him.
Posted by happyflower on July 28, 2005, at 12:09:32
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 11:26:49
((((Daisy)))
You know I think it doesn't matter if you are 3 or 80 years old, everyone wants a "mommy" to take care of us. I never had one either, and it hurts really bad, always had, and probably always will. I don't think it has much to do with growing up. My stepkids are in their 20's and they still need a "mommy" and a "daddy". I still buy them a stuffed animal at X-mas, and they love it, even if they think they are too grown up for it.I am so glad you have a very caring T, please hold on to him as long as you can. Hang on to anything you can, keep safe.
I think it is progress that you admitting that you have this need to be fufilled. Knowing WHAT you need is good. You are a sweet person, and I am sure there will be somebody that will want to take care of you. Just please hang in there, that person will come to you. Please keep posting, I know it isn't the same as your T , but I will try to support you as much as I can.
Take care,
flower
Posted by annierose on July 28, 2005, at 14:20:09
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » annierose, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 10:48:34
Wouldn't that be a good thing? (to be still in therapy).
I'm like Dinah, I can't imagine not having her support and comfort around me. Maybe I will one day. But I'm glad I don't have to make that choice right now. I already asked if she plans to retire anytime soon.
I think you can still be finished with working on your major life issues but still check in with just stuff ... life ... I don't know .... I'm not there yet.
At least you still have one child at home. I always thought I would regret only have two children ... I'm getting sad just thinking about that. It must change the dynamics at home ... all the relationships change.
Posted by Poet on July 28, 2005, at 18:14:28
In reply to Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 1:15:07
Hi Daisy,
I think that you were able to tell your T (and us) about your wanting to be cared for, is starting to work through it. A little tiny start, but a move in the right direction.
I'm currently struggling with my mortal wound. I can talk about it with my T, and she says she'll be there for me. New pdoc seems to want to be there, too. Part of me says it's their code of ethics or something that they have to try to rescue us. That's the negative part of me, the teeny positive part says, we are worthy of being cared for (saved so to speak.)
I'd give you a real in person hug if I could. Yikes, I am making progress in therapy...
(((((((((((((((DAISY)))))))))))))))))))
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on July 28, 2005, at 18:27:19
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » Dinah, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 11:08:05
You matter to me.
Posted by frida on July 28, 2005, at 20:06:28
In reply to Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 1:15:07
Hi,
just wanted to send you my support and let you know I so understand and feel everything you've shared..I know how incredibly painful and hopeless it is :-(
i could have written every word- I was telling my T that i don't know how to ever heal that part of me that needs to be taken care of...i told her I wished she could back to each moment after I was hurt and hold me the way I wasn't held back then.
I think it is an essential thing, i feel i won't ever 'heal' unless she somehow does that but it also feels sort of like an impossible wish- :-(
i feel like i want desperately for her to take care of me as a little girl- and i feel the time for that is gone and i can't have that ever and it is incredibly painful..
i'm sorry you're experiencing the same--i am at a similar place as you are in my healing journey from csa, and i wanted to reach out and let you know you're not alone with all your feelings--
and that i still have some hope that it is possible to experience that nurturing and safety i ached for all my life...so there must be hope :-) and your T seems to be so wonderful and so "with you".sending you lots of support,
love
frida
> I should respond to all the great posts, support, advice and hugs above but I can't seem to take it in right now. But know that I appreciate and love all of you for trying to help. I think I'm posting/journaling here to help me look at some of these ideas in a more concrete way. Please forgive me for the length.
>
> I think one of the hardest parts about all this is how much it is effecting those around me. It feels like a sword with no handle, just blades back-to-back, cutting me when I hang on tight but cutting others when I try to hand it off. I want desperately to feel better, to feel more in control or to at least be able to fake it and hide it better. I've said as much to my therapist and he just goes nuts. He tells me this is how it all got out of control in the first place, planning without talking about it. He is still bringing up the fact that I mailed him a short note (it wasn't a good-bye nor an explanation, just a sort of "I wanted to make sure you were paid, I don't care what you do about the insurance, take care of yourself note) and his final check. He already knew by then how I was feeling but he said it rocked him. And a good friend called him and left a message that she was really worried Tuesday morning and he couldn't reach me for a couple of hours. He said it scared the "bgeebees" out of him.
>
> We've been trying to narrow things down so we can look at what he is calling the "mortal wound" -- the one that is really too painful to live with. I think we sort of discovered it yesterday and we talked more about it today. I said it boils down to two sentences: "I desperately want to be taken care of. And I know it is never going to happen." I know this old and very young. This is the little girl crying for her mother. Intellectually I know that I can't undo, I can't go back. I just don't know how to stop wanting what I'll never be able to have. I said to him, "I want you to take care of me, to rescue and protect me." We talked about how I've got it all set up again - a re-enactment of my childhood with my therapist playing the role of my mother, only he knows I'm in pain. But he still can't protect me from my husband's anger and he can't take care of me 24/7. We even talked about how these suicidal feelings are now the new "secret" I'm living with, with the same kind of terror and embarrassment, wanting people to know and nurture you but not risking their horrified reaction by actually telling them. And then wondering how the he** no one can see that you are suffering!!
>
> I lost it Monday night and stormed at my therapist. And then got terrified about having done that. Instead of being mad he said, "It is about time" -- sheesh! I asked him today if it was OK that I keep saying I want this -- to be taken care of -- and that I want it from him. He said he does want to protect me and take care of me, and help me learn how to get that from other people. He said it doesn't have to be "all me" or "all them." He knows how hard it is for me to not believe that if I let anyone help me, I'll give over all my power to them, all the control and they will hurt me. He is gentle about pointing out that he can't be there 24/7 and he worries about how much I'm suffering alone. He had some ideas about this, which I'm not ready for, but I was surprised (and relieved) that he is OK with how huge and completely irrational this need is. He is kind of cute about his cell phone, he keeps telling me it is on and by the bed and he keeps checking it to make sure he hasn't missed my call. (Yeah, I think he is worried.)
>
> We agree that I'm mourning and that the trauma of not being saved by my mother is probably a deeper wound than the actual abuse. But how do you get over that? How do you "just" let it go? Intellectually I know all the right answers. It all just bounces off against this enormous pain. And I can totally see the transference, and I'm powerless to stop it. At what point does my therapist step back and say, "I can't be your mother, you have to get a hold of yourself and grow up." Wow, just writing that brings on the tears. Because secretly these days I've decided I'm aging in reverse. I was a grown up at 9. Now at 43 I want to be held and comforted like a 9 year old. And that just isn't allowed.
>
> It feels like I'll never work through this, even though I've named it. I'm open to suggestions.
>
>
Posted by antigua on July 29, 2005, at 12:01:21
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by frida on July 28, 2005, at 20:06:28
Oh Daisy, I wish I could help make things better. I can only offer my support and what may appear to be just (empty) words to you right now. You WILL feel better, and you will recreate that core self that will keep you going. It may already be there, but if not, with the help of your T you will build a stronger self to help get through these times, and you will find ways to ease the hurt you're experiencing. You have done such hard work, please just hang in there.
best,
antigua
Posted by alexandra_k on July 30, 2005, at 17:38:19
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » alexandra_k, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 10:54:39
> But what if I *am* going in the wrong direction here?
It doesn't sound to me like you are. It sounds to me like you are becoming aware of these feelings inside you. Feelings of wanting to be cared for and hurt that your feelings weren't really taken into proper account when you were a kid. Just being aware that this is going on inside you is progress. Being able to tell other people about what is happening for you.
>I feel horribly selfish about wanting this and worse because I'm so destroyed not believing I'll have it.
You aren't selfish for having the feelings you have. I don't think we choose most of what goes on for us / most of what occurs to or within us. But those feelings are there and at least you are able to acknowledge them now.
I worry that I have some kind of need inside me that will never be met. Because it is simply too late. I guess it is a related thing that nobody cared for me as a kid and so now I feel quite a lot like it doesn't matter how much anybody cares for me now it will never make up for that. There will always be that emptiness inside me.
gg said something a while back... I can't remember it... I think it was about how part of you will always grieve but that over time it doesn't hurt as bad. It will get better. I reckon it will. The need will receed so it won't be so very strong or recurrent but you may well always grieve for it a little.
> Inside my head I wonder if I'd found and married my soul-mate, would I feel this way right now? I married a guy who needed me a thousand times more than I needed him and then I had kids who needed me and then I created a whole career around kids and families who need help...intellectually I can see all out put, no in put leaves a dry well.Maybe if you married your 'soul mate' you would be having all sorts of stuff going on about your own self-esteem. Whether you are worthy of love. Whether he really does love you. Why the hell he loves you... I think different people can bring up our different issues...
> it just isn't right to let them meet your needs, that is what happened to me essentially, right?
Yeah. By the sounds of it nobody really knew what was going on for you when you were a kid. They didn't know what to do. And you kept that pretty closed off because you didn't figure it was all that safe... Its a horrible situation. I don't think it is right... But it does happen sometimes.
:-(
Posted by crushedout on July 30, 2005, at 18:02:25
In reply to Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by daisym on July 28, 2005, at 1:15:07
daisy, i don't know what to say. you've definitely touched a chord in me. i'm sad. i'm also relieved that someone else, as lovable as yourself, feels the way i do. it makes me feel less ashamed. i feel like maybe i can tell my t these feelings the way you told yours.but i have the same questions as you do, and no answers. how do you learn to live with this want, knowing that you are all grown up and your t is not going to take you in his lap and take care of you.
i have tears rolling down my cheeks, but it kind of feels ok.
love,
crushed
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:06:30
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by muffled on July 28, 2005, at 11:14:12
I hope eventually you will be able to show your therapist that we won't hurt you here, but sometimes things do pop up that make you question what you are doing. If she makes it uncomfortable for you to talk about your internet friends, you'll be holding back. Now THAT can't be good.
I must say that it still feels a little weird to talk about babble stuff with my therapist, but HE brings it up now as a source of support. :)
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:11:23
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2005, at 11:26:49
Thanks for saying that Dinah. I guess maybe I want to be seen as much as loved. My therapist says I want to be able to be vulnerable with my mom and my husband but I just don't trust them with the fragile parts of me. And he doesn't disagree with that judgement.
It is a balance as you say. I sure am glad you guys seem to care. :)
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:15:58
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by happyflower on July 28, 2005, at 12:09:32
Thanks for offering so much support, flower. I can just see your step-kids getting stuffed animals -- I would love that! (I got a rocking "horse" elephant for christmas and I put it in my office.)
I'm not sure anyone can ever fill this void, except me, myself. It is just going to be a long slow process to figure out how to be enough all by myself. I sound like Rod, don't I? But he is right about that...you have to be enough in yourself to take in love and caring from other people. I seem to be such a slow learner around this.
I feel much better today though, which I guess is why I could face this thread again.
Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:18:25
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by annierose on July 28, 2005, at 14:20:09
***At least you still have one child at home. I always thought I would regret only have two children ... I'm getting sad just thinking about that. It must change the dynamics at home ... all the relationships change.****
It really will change everything. I'm going to write about this over on parents I think.
As far as forever therapy, I wrote about termination below. But yes, I can see myself staying for the support for a long, long time. I asked about retirement too. He said he could be 90 and I'll be 80 and he'll still see me. I told him I'd want a senior citizen discount. :)
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:21:09
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by Poet on July 28, 2005, at 18:14:28
***I'd give you a real in person hug if I could. Yikes, I am making progress in therapy.***
Yes you are...I can see it!!! I'd take that hug if I could. I'll be there for the next Babble party, for sure.
did you tell your therapist that you think that maybe, perhaps, it could be, a tiny bit -- that she really cares about you? I think it would make her smile.
Hugs!
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:22:26
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by fallsfall on July 28, 2005, at 18:27:19
You made me cry. Simple and powerful and straight forward. Just like you.
It is so nice to matter to someone. You matter to me too...
Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:39:36
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by frida on July 28, 2005, at 20:06:28
***just wanted to send you my support and let you know I so understand and feel everything you've shared..I know how incredibly painful and hopeless it is :-( ****
I wish you didn't understand so well...
****i could have written every word- I was telling my T that i don't know how to ever heal that part of me that needs to be taken care of...i told her I wished she could back to each moment after I was hurt and hold me the way I wasn't held back then.***
I know there are so many schools of thought on this but I think the work we are doing around revisiting the episodes of trauma is the right one for me. I sometimes go into shock, (I'm not kidding, it is a physical blow) but we work through it and I feel less alone and scared by it. I think I've written about this, he calls it reliving it all with a witness. You aren't alone and someone believes you and you a releasing a lot of fear. It isn't that catharsis is healing in and of itself. It is just part of it.
****I think it is an essential thing, i feel i won't ever 'heal' unless she somehow does that but it also feels sort of like an impossible wish- :-( ****
She can't undo what happened. But she can be with you as you let go of it. She can help you look at it, sort through it and name all the scary effects it has had on you. She can walk you back to the present when it all threatens to overwhelm you. And she is your emotional container, wrapping around you to keep you together as your insides sort of liquify by this process. My therapist gave me that imagine a long time ago and I've held on to it because it is so perfect. It made it less scary to cry, because since he was a container, he could handle the flood. :) And one of the most essential things your therapist can do is reframe some of what happened. My therapist did this for me around a specific event and if nothing else, I'll forever be grateful for that.
****i feel like i want desperately for her to take care of me as a little girl- and i feel the time for that is gone and i can't have that ever and it is incredibly painful..****
No, she can't do that. But she can take care of the little girl part of you that you bring to therapy and make it all OK to want what you want and to acknowledge her fears and her pain. Together you can wade through this tender grief and she can help you mourn for your lost childhood.
****i'm sorry you're experiencing the same--****
Me too. For you too.
****i am at a similar place as you are in my healing journey from csa, and i wanted to reach out and let you know you're not alone with all your feelings--
and that i still have some hope that it is possible to experience that nurturing and safety i ached for all my life...so there must be hope :-) and your T seems to be so wonderful and so "with you".****Not being alone is incredibly important. Thank you. I feel my therapist is with me too, and yours sounds like she is right for you. I've let myself just accept his nurturing right now so I'm in a much more peaceful place. I told him I'll get freaked out over it next week but I'm too tired right now. He laughed. But the reward of being in this space came at the high price of honesty and forcing myself to TELL him these things that feel so childish. Therapy isn't easy, is it?
****sending you lots of support,****
Me too you. I hope you are having a good weekend.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:49:00
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger Daisy, posted by antigua on July 29, 2005, at 12:01:21
Gosh, thanks Antigua. I was thinking about you today. I really wish I could sit with you on the deck with lemonaid. I was in my swing out back and while it was peaceful, it was a little lonely. Didn't take long for my kids to find me though...:)
No such thing as empty words here on babble. Words-R-Us, right?
Thanks for the ongoing support. It means a lot to me.
Hugs!
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:54:00
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by alexandra_k on July 30, 2005, at 17:38:19
****Maybe if you married your 'soul mate' you would be having all sorts of stuff going on about your own self-esteem. Whether you are worthy of love. Whether he really does love you. Why the hell he loves you... I think different people can bring up our different issues...****
hmmm...I never thought of that. Of course, I never thought I had trust issues or self-esteem issues either. Because I'm a Pollyanna about people and their motives about almost everything. But not feelings or emotional issues. And self-esteem, heck, I was pretty darn sure of myself. I always knew what I wanted to do with my life (I'm not doing it); I didn't want kids (I have 3) and I wanted to live in a big city (not even close). I equated self-esteem with self confidence. I'm finding this isn't true at all. That is the fake part of me and I'm confident that no one knows she is fake. And they all like her.
complicated isn't it?
Thanks for the support.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 21:00:26
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » daisym, posted by crushedout on July 30, 2005, at 18:02:25
****daisy, i don't know what to say. you've definitely touched a chord in me. i'm sad. i'm also relieved that someone else, as lovable as yourself, feels the way i do. it makes me feel less ashamed. i feel like maybe i can tell my t these feelings the way you told yours.****
I hope you can crushed, it was worth pushing through to this. And thanks for saying I'm loveable, though I don't think I am. I've been thinking about this a lot. Do you think that because I don't like to be touched that people think I'm cold and unfeeling? I also think because I'm quick to jump in and solve the problem, that I don't make room for other people's emotions. So again, they think I don't have any. It is so hard for me to navigate this stuff.
****but i have the same questions as you do, and no answers. how do you learn to live with this want, knowing that you are all grown up and your t is not going to take you in his lap and take care of you.****
I don't know crushed. But Falls keeps telling me that I don't have to have the answers before I get to therapy, it is the process of therapy that is supposed to help me find them. I'll make a pact with you, OK? (spit on your wrist -- OK, ready? -- shake!) If I get the answer or answers, I PROMISE to share. You have to promise too. We'll have a sleep over and tell all the secrets. Together we can do it. Let's be formidable!
****i have tears rolling down my cheeks, but it kind of feels ok.****
I know those kind of tears. Such a release. But still...I wish I could wipe them for you and rock you. Close you eyes and feel me with you, I'm right there.
Gentle hugs to you.
Daisy
Posted by muffled on July 30, 2005, at 22:17:31
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 21:00:26
> ****daisy, i don't know what to say. you've definitely touched a chord in me. i'm sad. i'm also relieved that someone else, as lovable as yourself, feels the way i do. it makes me feel less ashamed. i feel like maybe i can tell my t these feelings the way you told yours.****
>
> I hope you can crushed, it was worth pushing through to this. And thanks for saying I'm loveable, though I don't think I am. I've been thinking about this a lot. Do you think that because I don't like to be touched that people think I'm cold and unfeeling? I also think because I'm quick to jump in and solve the problem, that I don't make room for other people's emotions. So again, they think I don't have any. It is so hard for me to navigate this stuff.
>
> ****but i have the same questions as you do, and no answers. how do you learn to live with this want, knowing that you are all grown up and your t is not going to take you in his lap and take care of you.****
>
> I don't know crushed. But Falls keeps telling me that I don't have to have the answers before I get to therapy, it is the process of therapy that is supposed to help me find them. I'll make a pact with you, OK? (spit on your wrist -- OK, ready? -- shake!) If I get the answer or answers, I PROMISE to share. You have to promise too. We'll have a sleep over and tell all the secrets. Together we can do it. Let's be formidable!
>
> ****i have tears rolling down my cheeks, but it kind of feels ok.****
>
> I know those kind of tears. Such a release. But still...I wish I could wipe them for you and rock you. Close you eyes and feel me with you, I'm right there.
>
> Gentle hugs to you.
> Daisy
>
>I don't do crying, but if I did ,that above post would do it. I reckon a person that writes like that has goto be pretty lovable. If you want unlovable you come talk to me, then you'll feel like a cuddly teddy bear! Its actually kinda funny, the not touching thing. My preacher has tried to hug me a time or two and its all I can do, I sort of BUTT my head into his shoulder, stiff a a board and he gives me a pat on the back. I dunno if you can call that a hug!!!! I find it kinda funny anyhow. Take care you lovable you!
Posted by crushedout on July 31, 2005, at 0:39:53
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger, posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 21:00:26
of course i promise. and i do think you are lovable. i think maybe i am, too.
Posted by Poet on July 31, 2005, at 11:55:04
In reply to Re: Wanting a mommy (long) trigger » Poet, posted by daisym on July 30, 2005, at 20:21:09
Hi Daisy,
If I told T that a tiny part of me is allowing her to care about me, I'm sure she would smile. Though I don't think she'd believe she heard it, since in the last session, she said she sees me trying to push her away. Which, of course, I am.
Last week she was on vacation, so it might be an interesting way to start out this week. I really need to tell her I saw a new pdoc, too. If I told her both of those things, she'd probably fall out of her chair. She'd wonder what occured while she was gone to get me to admit it.
Poet
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