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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
Normally I'm a person who loves rules. I need them. I need to know how to stretch them, how to use them and when I can break them and when I absolutely can't.
But I hate the rules of therapy right now.
I want to sit and brood. I can't -- I'm supposed to talk. *He* isn't insisting that I talk, he is just gently suggesting that I'm isolating again and that never turns out well. But he said he could wait and we could just hang out. *I* can't do that. It is against the rules.
I want to lie that I'm OK -- but I promised not to lie. But I desperately want to show another side of myself to him. The side that can solve problems, write million dollar grants and be funny. He says he knows that side, he has seen it. But that side doesn't need therapy. URG That side doesn't want to need the pdoc either. But that would be another lie. He says I don't need to reassure him or the pdoc. I think I do.
I want more than an hour a day. I want sessions at 3am. I want to be special. I want to be rescued. I want to be held while I cry. I don't want know he has other clients or a wife that he went dancing with. And yet I want to know if he has other clients as needy as me.
Today I told him I needed a break. I thought if I took a month off I could get my feelings back under control. He said he could see why I would want that. But he wondered if I wasn't just running scared...we've put our toe into a really cold part of my lake misery. OK, that makes sense. I told him I was terrified it would change the way he thought of me...make him give up on me. And I needed to pull back and get ready for that. He said, "You are leaving therapy before you get left." Exactly. But it is more than that. I told him I hated the way talking about this stuff made me need him. And I hated the way hearing about his life made me jealous. I'm not a jealous person usually. And I told him I really wanted to yell at him. He looked thrilled and said, "Go ahead. I want to hear it." I opened my mouth but nothing came out. Then I burst into tears and babbled all of the above at him. And then apologized for the mini-tantrum. Of course.
He said it really would be OK to yell at him. That he might not like it but he could take it. And he said it really was OK to hate the limits of our relationship. He could understand why I did, and why I wanted more and needed him so much. And he said no matter what I said, he wouldn't think less of me or leave me. He said he could see I was suffering and that made him sad for me. So he really could see why I'd want a break. That didn't mean that he was saying he needed one, or wished I would take one (I asked). I sat in silence for a while. He said, "You want me to tell you what to do..." I said yes, but I know you won't. He said, "You know where I stand on this. I think it is worse for you when you try to deal with it all alone. And while I do understand that your feelings for me are painful for you sometimes, I'm really OK with them. It is OK to need me, to need more contact...I'm here for you."
Through the tears I told him that I think I just need "permission" to hate the rules and limitations, to want what I want even while I know I can't have it. Because I can't help wanting it. I think it will be easier to deal with what I can't have, than it has been to deal with thinking I shouldn't have these feelings and thinking I'm going to get into trouble at any minute because I do feel this way. (geez, I guess even thinking about breaking those rules is bad).
I left soggy but better. What is it about this time of year that has us all feeling pain around our attachments? I hope it eases off soon, for all of us.
I
Posted by bent on January 4, 2006, at 8:57:42
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
Wow, that sounds so intense. I like what you said about wanting permission to hate the rules. I think I am that way too. I know the boundaries serve a good purpose and protect me and my T but sometimes I just hate them. Maybe it is this time of year that makes our attachments so hard. My attachment to my T is causing me so much pain and confusion these days. I hate it. It just makes me want to run away. You said in your post, 'I want sessions at 3am. I want to be special. I want to be rescued. I want to be held while I cry.' Have you told your T these things? How did he respond? I want to say those same things to my T but I just havent had the courage. I wonder if I'd feel better just letting all that out. Dont give up. Hopefully all these attachment-feelings will ease soon. I know how much it can hurt.
Posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 9:05:30
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by bent on January 4, 2006, at 8:57:42
I do tell him how I feel and yesterday I definately told him. Exactly like I wrote it. Tears and all. He responds with compassion and encourages me to tell him whatever I'm feeling. And then we work out what will help between sessions. Right now it is writing A LOT and hanging on to his talisman.
I think you should tell your therapist. At least you won't be alone with it. It is ironic that therapy itself is one of the issues we talk about so much, isn't it?
It does help to have permission to hate the rules.
Posted by bent on January 4, 2006, at 12:43:22
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » bent, posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 9:05:30
Yea, sometimes I think I need a therapist to help me deal with my therapist! That's awesome that you communicate those feelings to your T. My T surely knows I feel that way because I have talked around my feelings for her a lot. I am working on a letter to her and I just might include some of those hard-to-say feelings. She wont read it on her own, she will have me read it to her, which will probably be better for me-being more direct than having her read it. Do you share what you write with your T?
Posted by Anneke on January 4, 2006, at 15:45:14
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
Daisy,
I agree with you that something seems to be in the water in terms of how painful attachments seem to be right now. I feel like I'm back in the same place I was months ago and even though I know why, it still stinks. I'm glad your therapist reassures you about the relationship and your needs and wants....mine does too. And, I loved what you said about leaving soggy but better....it's a perfect description of certain sessions. Here's hoping for drier days ahead....
Posted by rs on January 4, 2006, at 15:53:25
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
Hi.
Having much confusion and etc from the attachement like I mentioned in another post.
I had an old T that moved out of state. Am allowed to call him when any questions he can help me with. I phoned him yesteray and he called twice after I left for T. Left message that he would try again today. Need to talk to him about this whole attachment thing. He knows me and hopefully will bring some light on this.
Will share what he has to say.
Thanks again to all of you for talking.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2006, at 18:05:43
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
I think it's terrific that you can talk about these things so freely with your therapist.
And eventually, I think the feelings grow less intense.
But, personally, I'd rather have the feelings be strong even with the pain.
Posted by fairywings on January 4, 2006, at 19:34:08
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
(((daisy)))
I'm sorry you're feeling so much pain. You have such an incredible capacity to say what's in your heart and on your mind. I really admire that. The rules do suck, they make things really painful.
Sometimes I want to brood too, but keep telling myself I can't do that with the precious little time I have. I have limited appts. this year, so I'm trying to make the most even though I have a terrible time expressing myself. I wish I could express myself as well as you do. I think sometimes the kid in us wants to be loved and nurtured, and to have someone tell us how much they care. You said you wonder if he has other clients as needy; maybe he does have others who feel that way, but I doubt he has others who are more honest and open. I don't think you are needy at all, I just think you have needs that feel overwhelming because they have never been met.
I hope you are feeling a bit better.
fw
Posted by fallsfall on January 4, 2006, at 19:34:32
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
(((Daisy)))
I'm sorry it feels so awful.
He will be able to help you figure out why this is coming up just now. Let him help you.
Love,
Falls.
Posted by rs on January 4, 2006, at 20:05:08
In reply to Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 4, 2006, at 2:20:46
hi Daisy.
Just ready your post over and over.
I send you caring thoughts and hope that you will keep on trusting your T with all of this and hang onto that he cares.
Please email me if you would like.
Caring thoughts
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 20:47:33
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by bent on January 4, 2006, at 12:43:22
You asked if I share what I write with my therapist. I usually do. He prefers me to read it to him but if it is too hard I don't have to. I find that it helps me get to the hard stuff faster instead of waiting until the last 10 minutes. I find I can fuss over the words and get it just the way I want it, instead of blurting. So it makes me feel in control.
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 20:49:52
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by Anneke on January 4, 2006, at 15:45:14
Do you want to share why you find yourself struggling against your attachment again?
I agree that I hate these cycles. I wish I could just sink into it, accept it as OK and use it to feel better.
But I've never doubted that the caring I feel is real. It just feels like something I shouldn't be feeling, you know?
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 20:52:24
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by rs on January 4, 2006, at 15:53:25
I love you for your continued support, both public and private.
I hope you connect with both therapists soon. Remember that not all parts of you (or me) hate this. My 4-year old part told him today that she wanted to sit under his chair and spend the weekend in his office. He responded that he thought she'd get cold and miss her stuffed toy. But he was glad she trusted him.
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 20:54:19
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2006, at 18:05:43
I don't know if I'm brave or stupid to say everything I end up saying. I have no pride left.
As usual, by the end of the week he has made it mostly OK again to need him again. And I don't have to give back the talisman yet.
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:00:03
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by fairywings on January 4, 2006, at 19:34:08
You are very sweet. I struggle with the words "need" and "want." I can want more contact, but do I NEED more? Sometimes I'm absolutely sure I need him to stay together. Othertimes I wonder if I'm indulging a childish want. Either way, he remains steady for it all.
I'd like to still know about the neediest client. It might make me feel better.
I'm not always brave at saying what is on my mind. But a while ago I asked him to push me a little if he thought I was holding back. So he will say, "what? You started to say something." My favorite is: "Try to stay here and just say words...anything that tells me what is going on." So I said, "words." He laughed.
Talking about talking really helped.
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:02:26
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by fallsfall on January 4, 2006, at 19:34:32
I'm trying to let him help. He said I don't have to know why I need him, it is just OK to need him. I said I'll never be able to face termination. He said, "we aren't there yet. You don't know how you will feel. Can you worry about this week and next and not years down the road?"
OK -- I'll try. But -- YEARS!!?? Yikes.
Posted by fairywings on January 5, 2006, at 21:38:11
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » fairywings, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:00:03
> I struggle with the words "need" and "want." Sometimes I'm absolutely sure I need him to stay together. Othertimes I wonder if I'm indulging a childish want.
***I know the feeling. I'd like everyday, I'd like twice a week. I love his kindness, I hate my building attachment. I keep thinking "quuuuiiiittt beforrrre it geeeeetssss tooooo llaaaatttteee!" Kind of like a whisper in my ear. ; ) I don't think it's indulging a childish want, I think it's seeking the loving parenting we never had, until we're strong enough to provide that for ourselves. Have you ever listened to any of Caroline Myss's CD's? They're wonderful. If you're interested, I'll do a double quote here, just to get you to a link "Warming the Stone Child".
>
> I'd like to still know about the neediest client.***Ask! ; ) What's the worst that can happen?!
>
> My favorite is: "Try to stay here and just say words...anything that tells me what is going on." So I said, "words." He laughed.***That's too funny. I haven't felt amused all week, but that did it. Thank you (((daisy))).
Wish I had a quick wit.fw
Posted by daisym on January 6, 2006, at 0:17:09
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by fairywings on January 5, 2006, at 21:38:11
I have the Stone Child as well as her cd about dreams and another I can't remember. I liked the dream cd better than the Stone Child. I think It brought up too much painful stuff for me the first time I listened to it.
I pulled out one of my favorite books again, looking for want vs. need. It is a very clinical (but readable) book, "Treating the Self" but I learned so much about merging and why I felt so fragmented. I also have been reading "A Slender Thread" looking for new ways to view why people get to the edge and don't jump off. They reach out and connect and make it through one more day.
I guess that is what this attachment with our therapists is really about. We need to connect, to matter to someone enough to make it through one more day.
I'm glad I made you smile.
Posted by fairywings on January 6, 2006, at 11:47:27
In reply to Re: Hating the rules. » daisym, posted by fairywings on January 5, 2006, at 21:38:11
I said warming the stone child was a Caroline Myss CD, but it wasn't hers. It was Clarissa Pinkola Estes.
fw
Posted by happyflower on January 6, 2006, at 14:48:57
In reply to Re: Oops, posted by fairywings on January 6, 2006, at 11:47:27
> I said warming the stone child was a Caroline Myss CD, but it wasn't hers. It was Clarissa Pinkola Estes.
>
> fwHey, Fairywings!
I have Warming the Stone Child and it is a great CD. Thanks for reminding me to listen to it again. Yup, I am a stonechild, it fits me to a T. (not T as in T , but you know what I mean! lol) I would like to get more of her CD's, I have one of her books, which I find hard to read, but it is something about Wild Wolf Woman, lol I can't remember anything. I sure couldn't read that book right now either, but it is suppose to be inspiring. (if you can get through it)
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 18:27:46
In reply to Re: Hating the rules., posted by daisym on January 6, 2006, at 0:17:09
> I guess that is what this attachment with our therapists is really about. We need to connect, to matter to someone enough to make it through one more day.
>Yeah.
I think that's why my therapist said that T3's style and philosophy wasn't the best one for everybody.
Posted by fairywings on January 7, 2006, at 17:42:12
In reply to Re: Oops » fairywings, posted by happyflower on January 6, 2006, at 14:48:57
Yup, I am a stonechild, it fits me to a T. (not T as in T , but you know what I mean! lol)
**Yep, me too, and I know what ya mean hf
I would like to get more of her CD's, I have one of her books, which I find hard to read, but it is something about Wild Wolf Woman, lol I can't remember anything. I sure couldn't read that book right now either, but it is suppose to be inspiring. (if you can get through it)**"Women who run with the wolves"
fw
Posted by happyflower on January 7, 2006, at 17:50:11
In reply to Re: Oops » happyflower, posted by fairywings on January 7, 2006, at 17:42:12
>one of her books, which I find hard to read, but it is something about Wild Wolf Woman, lol I can't remember anything. I sure couldn't read that book right now either, but it is suppose to be inspiring. (if you can get through it)
>
> **"Women who run with the wolves"
>
Yup that is it!!! I feel like a stoned and drunk flower lately! LOL
Posted by fairywings on January 7, 2006, at 17:53:07
In reply to Re: Oops » fairywings, posted by happyflower on January 7, 2006, at 17:50:11
still feeling off from the ambien? that stuff sounds wicked! my pdoc said soon our ins. will only cover cr, so i think i might have to do somethings else for sleep...benedryl, valerian, melatonin, none of them perfect, but better than doing strange things in my sleep, having bizarre dreams, and being groggy the next day. bleh!
fw
Posted by happyflower on January 7, 2006, at 18:09:50
In reply to Re: Oops » happyflower, posted by fairywings on January 7, 2006, at 17:53:07
Well maybe you wouldn't respond like me. My T says that is because my body is sensitive. (if he only knew!!!!!) sorry
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