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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Karolina on May 1, 2006, at 2:13:03
First I want to make an apology: I got upset when it seemed like not many or no one at all, would respond to my questions and posts. But then I realized well I have respond to other people's too, it can't just be all about me. I have had to go back up to NYC twice and that's not an easy trip coming from Georgia exactly, even though I was able to fly up there and back. But I've still been busy with the mess of trying to move my stuff back home and signing all these stupid forms to release me from my internship. I guess I've been so busy that I just seem to post on here when I can, but I promise I'll try to better and more responsive to everyone else very soon.
Anyway, I have been experiencing such sick, twisted confusing thoughts lately...it's hard for me to even want to type this out. As I've explained, I am very much attracted to my T and he always seems to have the lead role when it comes to fantasizing. But with that comes some guilt, because a) he's married and b) he's only a year younger than my dad. I really seem to struggle with sexual impulses and desires. Sometimes I look at myself in the mirror and how provocative I look, all the makeup, etc and I think 'I am such a whore'. I really struggle with body image issues too, being Bulimic and everything.
I was never abused physically, emotionally or sexually growing up except for once, if it even counts as abuse. When I was 9 and playing truth or dare with my best friend, my brother and his best friend. The details are sort of blurry but all I know is that his friend came into my bedroom and took turns making out/trying to fondle my best friend and me. He was 13 at the time. It left me feeling really weird and guilty. And it seemed like after that I took a huge interest in boys and sex.
It didn't help that my parents have always been very liberal with things, not seeming to care about censorship. I was allowed to see R-rated movies at a very young age and sex has always seem to be a casual subject in our household. Not in a perverted way, but in the way that I don't feel uncomfortable when sexual jokes are told, there's dirty gossip about people hooking up, etc. But my parents are also verrry affectionate towards one another, not in public really but at home they seem to act pretty lovey-dovey. Which ironically makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I've walked by a few times and seen my dad looking at porn and it made me feel this way. Or recently I saw them hugging in my kitchen when he had gotten home from work, and he had his hands on her a$$ as they were hugging. And they KNEW I was just in the other room. Or one night I was talking to my mom when I was upset downstairs in their bedroom. My dad was already half-asleep, in the bed in his just his underwear. I was sitting on the edge of the bed and she was telling me something and he had leaned over and kissed her arm spontaneously, half asleep. I don't know why, but that made me feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Or does it make sense? I'm beginning to think that it wasn't even healthy for me to be in there when they were already in bed together.
They don't know about how their PDA around the house bothers me so much. Tying this subject into the subject of my T - he's a parent and sometimes I imagine what it would be like if he were my dad instead. Or I imagine if his daughter and he get along and talk like my dad and I do. Yet at the same time I still have such intense sexual feelings for my T. Well...recently while fantasizing about my T my thoughts seem to get interrupted and instead I picture my dad acting that way towards my mom and somehow it arouses me. I know that sounds sooo freaking sick. And before I knew my T I never thought that way about my parents.
So I'm wondering if all of my thoughts are extremely tangled, made up of: being over-sexual and desensitized to sexual things, being disturbed by my parents' behavior in front of me, and going back and forth about trying to see my T as a lover and a parent. I feel so sick about this. Can anyone see what the problem might be? When fantasizing I dont even want to react like that or think of that stuff w/ my parents, it's like it just pops into my head randomly. Is this all my fault somehow? I know it's something I could talk about in therapy, but I wouldn't even know how to begin. I don't understand any of this, sorry if it sounds totally disturbing I just need some insight on this. It makes me feel so sick that I feel like hurting myself over it. I don't know what to do. I cant forgive myself for the sick thoughts.
-Karolina-
Posted by bent on May 1, 2006, at 12:09:28
In reply to x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger*, posted by Karolina on May 1, 2006, at 2:13:03
You bring up so many good points that might be affecting these thoughts. First of all, you are not sick. I absolutely love what my T once told me about troubling thoughts: "Thoughts arent right or wrong, they just are."
Remember that just because you have a thought doesnt mean its based in reality or that its something you desire. Our problems manifest themselves in many ways, and twisted thoughts are just one of them.
As for what to do....In my opinion I think you need to spill it all to your therapist. Maybe not all in one day but get it all out. The feelings about him, the incident in your past, the thoughts. You can do it. I had to write it to my therapist and then read it during the sessions. It was so hard. I felt like throwing up all day before the appointment, but afterwards it felt great. Like I could fly because I didnt have this weight, I didnt have to carry secrets around. Do you know the orientation of your T? psychodynamic? CBT? others? You may have mentioned in another post, i dont remember. You have a lot of heavy stuff on your plate. You'll feel good when you start unloading it.
Posted by Karolina on May 4, 2006, at 23:15:13
In reply to Re: x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger* » Karolina, posted by bent on May 1, 2006, at 12:09:28
Thanks so much for your response Bent. I already felt better just writing about it on here, so I'm sure being able to analyze the situation with my T in person really would be like a weight lifted off my shoulders. I'm not really sure about what orientation he is, but he's a psychologist.
I still feel really sick about the whole situation and really struggle with opening up to my T, but maybe I can gradually bring each subject up until it's all talked out...
-Karolina-
Posted by john berk on May 5, 2006, at 15:20:21
In reply to Re: x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger*, posted by Karolina on May 4, 2006, at 23:15:13
Hi Karolina,
i just wanted to put my 2 cents in, i have ocd, and like Bents "T' said, thoughts are not right or wrong, they are just thoughts", applies double to myself and others with ocd, we try so hard to weed out the "right" thoughts from the "wrong?", and wind up totally obsessing.i don't think anything you said about your thoughts sounds sick in the least, and as far as fantasy, those thoughts are the hardest to "control", and why should they be under control, it is just that, "fantasy".
my brother is expeirencing the exact same problem at the moment, analyzing his fantasy's and thinking himself less a person for sexual thoughts he has, but we have discussed it ad naseum, lol, and i beleive he finally realizes that like my "T" once told me, "take nothing for granted in the realm of sexuality",
any thought or fantasy you have is probably pretty much universal at some point in others minds!!!
please be well, and think good things about yourself, you sound quite normal but struggling, i wish you happiness...john
Posted by Karolina on May 9, 2006, at 23:35:36
In reply to Re: x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger* » Karolina, posted by john berk on May 5, 2006, at 15:20:21
Thanks, John. What you said feels really reassuring that I'm not totally 'crazy' =)
I have OCD as well, which I didn't even think about it maybe having an effect on these particular disturbing thoughts. Thanks for the response.-Karolina-
Posted by muffled on May 10, 2006, at 14:47:48
In reply to x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger*, posted by Karolina on May 1, 2006, at 2:13:03
Hey,
Y'know your thots don't seem that sick.
How many times doyou hear that girls marry men just like their father? Thats a very common saying.
Also, I get , and always have gotten, occasional weird thots, like if I'm patting my so trusting dog, that I could just break her neck and she wouldn't say boo. i immediately feel bad and I would never act on those thots. I just let them go and move on.
And the T relationship can be very intimate and intense, so having sexual thots come into doesn't strike me as strange either. Just all logical.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by DisposableDoll on May 12, 2006, at 5:33:04
In reply to x-plicit...sick thoughts *may trigger*, posted by Karolina on May 1, 2006, at 2:13:03
Hey Karolina! First off I want to say though I haven't been responding to all of your replies to my messages, I have been reading them and appreciating them. It really does help to have someone I can relate to. I had written a large post in response to this post of yours and I accidentally erased to entire thing! AGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Let's try this again.
I wanted to say I can relate a lot to a lot of this. As you know, I also alternatingly put my T in the position of my father and in the position of a lover type figure (just not at the same time). Like your T, mine is married, and while my father is several years older, my T is old enough to be my dad. I, too, find myself sometimes looking in the mirror at my makeup, cleavage, etc. and think "I am such a whore (or a slut or something)". While I do have some body issues, I'm not bulimic or anorexic and I'm sorry you have to struggle with bulimia. I do sometimes deny myself food that I want and I have considered just starving myself on a regular basis, but the problem is, at a certain point, although I still have more padding in my tummy than I want, etc., I start losing my breasts, and they are saggy enough without me deflating them anymore. Besides, they seem to be what attracts a lot of guys to me, so I can't stand the thought of losing them.
I wasn't abused physically, emotionally or sexually growing up, either, really. The words "verbal abuse" have came as a suggestion while I was discussing some choice situations, but I don't think I was really abused verbally or emotionally, as it wasn't like my fmaily constantly belittled me. I know people in that situation. Also, I was never physically abused, and I wasn't sexually abused, though there were some small incidents I'd prefer to forget.
As for my parents, they weren't sexually liberal like yours, but being sexually conservative isn't a good thing either. For example, my family taught me that masturbation was dirty, disgusting, sinful, and sick. Thing is, I couldn't seem to stop doing it. I was an adult before I finally got over feeling guilty and dirty for pleasuring myself, which is perfectly natural and healthy. I wasn't allowed to watch R rated movies till I was about 12, but I watched them anyways. The weird thing is, though sex was made to seem nasty and sinful, sometimes my family says the most perverse things, jokes about sex, etc. and it just seems like.....I don't know, it's uncomfortable not just because they're family, but because they made sex seem disgusting, but then they made dirty jokes and suggestive comments about things. Now my parents divorced early, so I don't remember seeing them grope each other or anything and I can imagine that would be disturbing. Different things make different people feel uncomfortable and certainly if it made you uncofortable, you shouldn't have had to be around it. I'm not saying whether there was anything wrong with the situation or not in and of itself, but it was wrong that you had to be in a situation that made you sexually uncomfortable and I'm really sorry you had to feel that way. Also, as far as the walking in on your dad loooking at porn.....if I saw either of my parents looking at porn I'd feel weird. Not so much weird knowing they watched it, but weird walking in while they were. :(
Well, anyways I also fantasize about my T and have had my father pop up in the fantasy before. Now, I know that some people say that females who seek to find a replacement father figure, tend to sexualize the replacement. Now, I don't think that has necessarily been true for me as a general rule, not to mention that as far as my actual dad- I am not sexually attracted to my father and the thought sickens me. However, sometimes he just pops in there. I have had OCD which dwindled down to obsessive compulsive tendancies and is really dulled down now, but I still have some obsessions and compulsions, just not as frequent, varied, intense, uncontrollable, etc. as before. Well, I knew the reason dad was popping up was partly because fo the OCD. It is also the reason that sometimes it is hard to get him to leave my fantasy. When I read your post, I thought the same thing- OCD.
When my obsessions and compulsions were worse, sometimes one or both of my parents would sometimes invade my sexual thoughts, but I didn't like it. It was frustrating. It became difficult to have sexual fantasies. However, now it seems it is just my dad. Like you, my T is a parent and sometimes I wonder what it would be like if I were his child instead. I also wonder how my T gets along with his child, his wife, his friends, etc. Also, like you I have sexual and romantic feelings for him as well as sometimes having paternal or platonically friendly feelings for him and even that in and of itself weirds me out, because I start wondering why I would feel sexual about a man that I can turn around about and think of as my dad. It's confusing.
Now, I do agree with you that your thoughts are probably getting tangled up, and I think that is somewhat the case with me as well, and our OCD or obsessive compulsive tendancies, added to all this are causing these invasive and disturbing thoughts. I too think I can be over-sexual, yet in some ways I feel sexually jaded and desensitized, and while I never saw my parents being very sexual, there are other things that that have made me feel sexually disturbed about my parents before, and I also go back and forth between trying to see my T as a lover and as my father.
The thoughts of my dad are also random and he just sort of pops in there all of sudden in my already ongoing fantasy. That's how OCD works of course, and no, we don't want to think about it, but it seems the more I don't want to think about an obsession, the more the thought plagues me, and the more difficult it is to get it to leave, and the more frequent it occours. Now, here is the thing- sometimes I get sexually aroused all of a sudden, for just a fleeting second, over things that are disturbing and that I do not want to be aroused by and that I NORMALLY am not aroused by. What happens, is for some reason the thought of that thing enters my head for whatever reason and for whatever reason, if it is not innately sexual, it is somehow associated with something sexual in my head. Now, when I associate this thing with sex in my head, I find it appalling and I wonder why it is there. Sometimes I start to worry that by it being in my head it means it does arouse me. Other times I simply think how horrible it would be to feel that way. A soon as I think of how much I don't want to feel it, that is when I start to feel it. Before I start getting scared that I might feel aroused by it, I don't feel aroused. It only happens when I get scared that it will. The only way I am aroused before this fear kicks in, is if I have already been fantasizing about something else that I normally find arousing before the disturbing thought occours, and my sexual arousal is a result of the earlier fantasy.
Our brain is a giant sex organ in a way, you know- in other words, a lot of sex and arousal is in your head, right? Well, have you ever noticed how sometimes your obsessive thoughts are about the very thing that disturbs you the most and the more you want it to go away and the more upset it makes you, the more it comes and the longer it stays? It's almost as if the very fact that it bothers you is the reason you think about it. Well, here you are fantasizing about someone who sometimes seems like your dad, and sometimes like your lover, and your fantasizing about him as your lover at the moment, but part of you thinks of "father" in association with him, and of course "father" also reminds you of your real father. Also you have seen your parents being sexual in front of you, which you found disturbing, so all of this stuff combined with your OCD makes it very understandable why your parents suddenly pop up during these fantasies and act sexually. Now, when your parents pop into your head in the middle of an already sexual fantasy that was about you and your sexuality and then they are acting sexual, too, here you are, already feeling sexually aroused from the T part of the fantasy and then they show up and if I may venture a guess as to what might have ran through your head at that moment, I would say that MAYBE you're thinking, "OH, NO what is up with this? Why am I thinking about this- especially during my sexual fantasy?! Does this mean I feel sexually about them? What if I did? Oh, I hope that's not what this is!" Etc. And the thought is repulsive and you don't want to be aroused. Now think about this. The OCD in our brains can cause us to have thoughts that we find disturbing, and even thoughts that don't feel like "our own", and we can't control what they are, when they happen, etc. and these thoughts are actually fueled by our desire not to think them. Just as not wanting to think these thoughts fuels them, maybe the arousal you feel is caused by not wanting to feel aroused. Your OC brain may be making you feel exactly what you don't want to feel, the same way it makes you think what you don't want to think. Afterall, you don't normally think of your parents in that sense, like you said yourself, and also, like I said, your brain doesn't just control thoughts, it controls feelings, including the physical feelings associated with sexual arousal. Your parents are already in your sexual fantasy thanks to the OCD thoughts, and maybe this leads to "obsessive feelings". Does that make sense to anyone else, but me? I know I wrote this in a repetitive manner, but I don't think I stated my theory clearly at any point in the entire thing, but I am tired, so you'll have to excuse that for now.
Anyways, point is I have had similar thoughts and I have also been aroused by things that disgust me before. For awhile I blamed myself and felt like I was sick. I hated myself even more than usual and I felt more ashamed than usual. When I was seeing both parents popping into my sexual fantasies, I also felt very uncomfortable for my mother to touch me in real life, even though I did not think she meant it sexually and I was not and am not sexually aroused by her. I think these thoughts were partly responsible for my discomfort towards her touch. I finally realized it was my OCD and finally came to terms with the fact that I can't just control this, and that those thoughts and even some of these feelings that come with certain thoughts sometimes, is not how I really feel, what I want, etc. and that these alien and invasive thoughts and fleeting feelings are actually there almost because they are what I am afraid of and what I do not want to feel or think. This helped me to start to feel less sick and less guilty. It still bothers me somewhat, but trust me, you are not responsible for this and you are NOT sick. You could tell your T about this and if you are not comfortable telling him he is the object of the fantasy, just tell him the object of the origional fantasy is a man that you think of as a father at times, and a lover at other times, and don't tell him that this fantasy man is him (T). Good luck.
Posted by Karolina on May 22, 2006, at 22:51:22
In reply to Re: x-plicit..sick thoughts *may trigger*-Karolina, posted by DisposableDoll on May 12, 2006, at 5:33:04
Thanks so much muffled and DisposableDoll for your responses. It really relieves me to know that I'm not just completely psycho and sick. I agree that OCD probably really is responsible for the intrusive thoughts during regular fantasies, I appreciate you all pointing that out to me. I feel lots better = )
Thanks you guys
-Karolina-
This is the end of the thread.
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