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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 44 to 68 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by susan47 on May 21, 2006, at 13:23:57
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:36:14
The wound could swallow you up forever,
(I am having a hard time with this ergonomic keyboard) and I apologize. How sloppy of me not to proofread my own docs. Sheesh and how embarrassing, because it makes the whole thing look brainless, and I don't think it really is.
Posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 22:57:48
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Larry Hoover, posted by fairywings on May 18, 2006, at 8:53:41
I've had many Ts and few helped much. I never tried to phone inbetween sessions until the last two. The one before last was very uptight about anything beyond the hour (well, 45 minutes)-- and it was terribly uncomfortable, and strained, because at that time, I needed more concrete reassurance that someone was there.
That was a v. bad set-up: among other things, it reinforced my negative self=image of being too weak, needy etc.
My next therapist was open to calls between times. I couldn't have made it through without that--
I don't know your situation, but if it's something you need, it's legitimate. I hope you find someone who's flexible, and perhaps not so threatened by boundary issues or whatever's going on.
Jost.
Posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Daisym, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
> > ****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
> >
> > Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that.
>
> My gut is telling me this one has gone awry. I don't know better words for it than what I used. The therapist man let things go too far. It was his duty not to, but I think it did.
>
> LarGee, I hope this doens't mean there was some sort of seductiveness going on. That's really completely utterly unacceptable--whether acted out, or just under the surface. I mean there's a line, a level of intensity that's okay--where both people are comfortable witih the limits--but there's a point where it is totally destructive.
I hope I'm overreading here.
Jost
Posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
Hi Jost,
Welcome to Babble if you are new! My relationship with my T has been on the boards for over the past year if you want to look in the archives.
I don't think my T is trying to seduce me, but there is a mutual attraction between us that I think has effects on our relationship. We have done very good work together and I have improved a lot. I also see him in public too at the gym. So our relationship is unique in that way.It is truly a long story, believe me! LOL I am now still struggeling with that we can't have a personal relationship outside of therapy and it hurts. And I think recently my T has tightened his boundries during therapy and I am hurt by that too. It just seems like he doesn't care about me anymore, like I am just a number.
Thanks for your support Jost. Talk soon!
Happyflower
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:54:44
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Jost on May 21, 2006, at 23:01:31
You might and you might not be. Whatever, if it's seductive then the therapist is human ... but the therapist isn't getting the right support and maybe he isn't even doing the right thing in his life ... it just proves s/he's human and somehow we have to forgive the humanity in everyone even as we are vulnerable ourselves.
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:57:34
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Jost, posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
I believe that HF, that his boundaries weren't complete with you and maybe we're just supposed to get over that and that's the thing that makes us stronger .. stronger than we've ever been, before .. it's just so horribly painful to go through that, especially when you don't trust your therapist because after all that boundary was crossed, in whatever way it was shown, it was ... it was. And all we can do is pick and dust off or go completely insane with doubt and self-doubt and pain and insecurity .. like I did, I fell off the ledge, but willingly ... willingly .. I actually threw myself off. Don't do that. Be wise about it, learn from somebody like me. I hope I've learned. I hope I have.
Posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 13:05:28
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » happyflower, posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 11:57:34
I was just thinking about what I said (hmh, awesome to be able to look at what you've said to someone and go, oh that was silly!) but from a different perspective, it's ridiculous that you would learn from somebody like me, whose made all these errors in judgment etc., when you're so wise about it. Although I don't believe your silly old therapist is having a good time about it either. Sometimes you know, I think they just psychically throw their hands in the air and go, "Let the chips fall where they may, I'm only human..." or some such nonsense. Because theirs is a schizophrenically-inclined profession, if you ask me, imo in my own experience therapy isn't always good for the therapist and sometimes they don't know that 'cause they get so caught up in what they're thinking. WHich may or may not be reality, right? Anyways, ciao and you're awesome, very strong and wise and gifted ...
Posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 17:42:58
In reply to Hey! Happyflower, posted by susan47 on May 22, 2006, at 13:05:28
Hey Susan,
Thanks, but I don't feel very strong and I don't think I am handling the very well. If my T was doing this to make himself seem more human, well he didn't, it seems like he is more *ss than human. LOL (sorry if I am putting down an animal, maddie) Maybe slug would be more like it.
Posted by Jost on May 22, 2006, at 21:10:09
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Jost, posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 8:02:45
> Hi Jost,
> Welcome to Babble if you are new! My relationship with my T has been on the boards for over the past year if you want to look in the archives.
> I don't think my T is trying to seduce me, but there is a mutual attraction between us that I think has effects on our relationship. We have done very good work together and I have improved a lot. I also see him in public too at the gym. So our relationship is unique in that way.
>
> It is truly a long story, believe me! LOL I am now still struggeling with that we can't have a personal relationship outside of therapy and it hurts. And I think recently my T has tightened his boundries during therapy and I am hurt by that too. It just seems like he doesn't care about me anymore, like I am just a number.
>
> Thanks for your support Jost. Talk soon!
>
> HappyflowerHi, Happyflower. I am pretty new here. I'll try to catch up on your history. Stay strong--this sounds tough.
I'm sure actually your T doesn't think of you as a number, but might be self-protective at this stage. What worries me is if he (and you) are caught in a possibly-destructive vacillation between being drawn together, then his closing the door (metaphorically).
That's not good, for either of you--but esp. for you (or at least you're my concern).
Therapists are human, but they have more responsibilities to their patients (IMHO) than people do in most adult relationships. It's complex--but you have a right to be protected in certain ways-- It's always a clinical judgment. I hope he's acted responsibly.
Jost
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:14:14
In reply to Larry » Larry Hoover, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 14:49:33
> You're a wise man.
Thank you. I wish I knew how to look after me the way I seem to be able to look after others. Is there a way to reflect it? A mirror, for wisdom? I can't see what I wise like.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:17:37
In reply to Happyflower, please and Larry??, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:19:28
> > > So can you develop a good self esteem later in life or is it something you acuire during your childhood?
> >
> > I just got one very recently. Still has that new car smell. I'm 49.
> >
> > Lar
>
> Are you still there? Larry I'm 49 next month ... ew yuck gross, but good too, because I have that new car smell too, some days and it is sooooo nice... and we're the same age, isn't that awful? That we couldn't come to it before....but let's keep what we have and add more and more onto that.Susan, there is a weird thing in this 49 thing. You are a metal rooster, in Chinese astrology. Of the six people who went on the Bata tour together, three of us were 49 (and you just come later that year). And you. Now, I wonder about His Bobness. I just wonder.
Musings from the Great Cold North.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:24:58
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:36:14
> Anything would feel abrupt to Happyflower right now, I think .. I could be wrong, but anything less than him sitting her in her lap and stroking her hair and putting her head on his shoulder and just cooing to her, just cooing and nothing else.
That's precisely what's wrong with this picture. He had a professional duty to her, not to let it get to that. Period. Full stop.
I'm not into vengence, but I am into making clear what is wrong with the picture. There is enough in this situation to easily file formal complaint(s) with professional organizations. At least, in my jurisdiction, that would be true.
Maybe, if some time down the road, this got written up *as if* to file a formal complaint, but it is handed to him with the warning that it will not be sent in, but he should read it as if it was........
To make clear that he failed her. I can't see it any other way. The power imbalance in a therapeutic relationship is so skewed, that the patient is virtually *never* responsible.
I'm sorry if I am too blunt, here. I just feel very blunt about this.
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 9:52:13
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:24:58
I don't want him to get into any trouble because of me posting for support. I will be fine no matter what has happened with him. I have gone through a lot worse than anything he has ever done to me.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 10:23:32
In reply to maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » Larry Hoover, posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 9:52:13
> I don't want him to get into any trouble because of me posting for support. I will be fine no matter what has happened with him. I have gone through a lot worse than anything he has ever done to me.
Thank you for saying that. I don't mean for anybody to be in conflict. My thoughts are my thoughts. I meant for you to feel less responsible, in case that was a part of your experience.I don't mean for you to stop talking about it.
I was very worried about you, but you have already placed this experience into the context of your life. Now I know differently than I did. I'm glad you're already coming out of this. It did make you stronger. Visibly so.
I do think that your therapeutic relationship is tainted, though. It can't ever be like this didn't happen.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 14:56:26
In reply to maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » Larry Hoover, posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 9:52:13
> I don't want him to get into any trouble because of me posting for support. I will be fine no matter what has happened with him. I have gone through a lot worse than anything he has ever done to me.
I'm sad my words had that effect on you. I'm sorry. That's not how I meant it, that anybody would get into trouble.
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 16:39:25
In reply to Re: maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 14:56:26
Hi Larry,
You didn't make me sad or anything, I am just worried that what I am posting could be used by someone other than me to bring charges against him. Even though I don't think he would be found gulity of boundry crossing or unethical behavior according to my oppion, but he has blurred a few I think. And a lot of this stuff is my perception of what I see and feel.
SO could someone turn my T in for what I write on Babble if they figured out who he was? I guess anyone can turn anyone in, but if my T was clearly unethical, could he get in trouble for stuff written? I guess the accuser would have to prove it was written by a patient, and if the patient refused to verify who their T is, then nothing could be proven, right?
Posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 16:45:48
In reply to Re: maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 10:23:32
Hey, by the way, I do appreciate your honest comments on all of this, do please don't stop, okay.
I am okay, really. Even though I am feeling hurt right now, it won't undo all the truly wonderful things he has helped me with. Nothing or nobody will ever take that away from me. And this has happened in spite of us being attracted to one another, (who knows maybe it helped, lol) So I am being careful now, and maybe more realistic too about my relationship with him.I will probably go back after I get over some of my hurt, anger and terriable stubborness. LOL
He did get through to me where no one has ever been able to. But I will just be more careful with my over zealous wants. LOL Thanks Larry again, really. ;-)
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 21:35:10
In reply to Re: Hey! Happyflower » susan47, posted by happyflower on May 22, 2006, at 17:42:58
Well, yes, I know what you mean.
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 21:40:48
In reply to Re: Larry » susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:14:14
You can't see what you wise like. What the heck does that mean, Lar'?
I don't know.
You just have to look ...
in your mind,
clear it ...
clear clear clear clearclearclearclear
then Look LOOK
you see yourself
reflected in the eyes
of every person you talk to,
every day, every single time you open your mouth to speak
what do you see reflected in the eyes you are looking into????
That's where you get it,
that's where you get the knowledge and the wisdom
that you already have ...
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 21:43:43
In reply to Re: Happyflower, please and Larry?? » susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:17:37
Quit saying that, I'm in the great cold north myself. And this year it really sucks it's very very wet, this year .. don't like it at all, at all. And I do live in a very beautiful part of a beautiful country....
So what's a metal rooster??? Do I have to go and search it out or will you give me a link, here ...? You have my curiosity aroused, Lar'. What's the Bata tour? Don't they make shoes .... one of these days I will have to get enlightened, Enlightened ...
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 21:51:19
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:24:58
SO, I went completely stupidly insane and nuts but I don't think that's necessarily my therapist's (at-the-time) fault ...
I went nuts. I was completely destroyed and I don't even know why. I look at it now and I know that he brought some serious issues to the surface in many talks we had initially .. you have to understand that one hour from the therapist's seat may be many years' time from the client's seat. I mean to say that in that fifty minutes, hour or hour-and-ten or perhaps -twenty, which I know happens and did happen .. I tried to hard, near the middle and end, to keep it down to one hour strictly, and sometimes he was okay with that but other times he deliberately, I think, slowed down things or seemed unconcerned about the time, which maybe he was trying to make me feel comfortable but maybe it was just making me feel really UNcomfortable, because God damn it I was ALREADY attracted to him, thank you very much, he knew it because I'd told him so, and it wasn't making him stricter .. not at first .. not until I made a real pain-in-the you-know-what of myself, and he was convinced to have had enough ..
Of course, all of this is just my own experience. I know that. All of it. And I think human nature is such, and society, especially today, has so many rules and regulations and strict laws we need to live by so that we remain civilized, you know .. that no man would ever admit to this. Not willingly, and certainly against all advice. So .. that is what makes the profession schizo.
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 22:04:21
In reply to Re: maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 14:56:26
And that is the crux of a situation, here, that so many clients or patients feel responsible and like they need to protect their therapist, even when they themselves have been the most hurt .. and all a therapist can do, I believe, "ethically" or whatever, according to a code they choose to live by, is ignore it all, pretend it never existed, and it's all in the client/patient's mind, this is all OUR imagining, OUR transference, OUR problems ... it's absolutely sick. It really is. It is. If therapists really knew how much responsibility their patients or their clients took on, for the relationship, NONE of them would EVER EVER EVER come onto a client or a patient the way one therapist did here online, as though THIS is all your fault, THESE are our boundaries, how DARE you cross this boundary ... A true therapist is one who understands.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 22:11:14
In reply to Re: Larry » Larry Hoover, posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 21:40:48
> You can't see what you wise like. What the heck does that mean, Lar'?
If wise was a verb......
Lar
Posted by susan47 on May 23, 2006, at 22:13:57
In reply to Re: Larry » susan47, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 22:11:14
Wise IS a verb, like love.
Posted by susan47 on May 24, 2006, at 9:14:53
In reply to Re: maybe I shouldn't post anymore then » Larry Hoover, posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 16:39:25
BTW I'm really sorry for being so vociferous in my viewpoint, HF. Try not to worry about your therapist too much, he sounds professional enough to recognize that he may need help, and if he doesn't, at least you do. All I can say is, I hope he can ease you into seeing another therapist, as in, maybe the three of you could start out. From my own experience, which is only one person's and may not even be valid, but I think there might be something valuable, something Very valuable, in all-round introspection, with a guide there, you know, someone to keep things cohesive and honest. I wish you so much wellness and good out of this, HF.
This is the end of the thread.
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