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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 15:38:42
It's funny. I spent a lot of time with my mother this weekend, and I had forgotten that when there's no monetary or decision making discussions, and there aren't any other people around so that I don't feel embarassed about her, she can actually be fun to talk to.
She went out of her way to make sure I knew Daddy loved me and was proud of me even though he never said so. She said he just didn't like making a fuss over me, because he said that he didn't like it when his mother and aunts made a fuss over him. Of course I did know that. He had many ways of showing what he never said.
But the funny thing was that she swears she only remembers being physical with me twice. Once when I was little and playing in the toilet (yuck) and once when I was running from her and she reached out and grabbed me and got my hair. She said she felt really bad when she found out a chunk of my hair had come out in my hand. That's not how I remember it (except that a chunk of my hair did come out and I spent hours brushing loose hair from my head), but ok, maybe that's how it seemed to her.
But she doesn't remember other times that I recall quite clearly. She didn't deny it. She just said she was stunned that she had forgotten these things. Even when I gave her the details, she couldn't recall it. But she said it was at a time she was under a lot of stress.
She never hurt me more than a handful of times, I'll admit. And she never hurt me when she was in control. She was always totally out of control with rage when she did it. But she did hurt me.
The funny thing was that she had just told me about a time when she had gotten physical with someone else very recently. So she can't think she's incapable of it.
Admittedly though, she didn't believe in corporal punishment for children. She believed in disciplining with high expectations and reasoning.
My mother has always had an amazing ability to create her own reality, twisting things to remember or to think what she wanted things to be rather than what they really were.
I just wonder if maybe she really doesn't remember. When someone's that out of control, is it possible that they really do forget?
Posted by orchid on May 24, 2006, at 16:16:13
In reply to My mother - Trigger maybe, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 15:38:42
I think people tend to block things out which they don't like or feel comfortable with at that moment.
I was surprised too, to hear that my parents didn't admit to certain things when I was very clear of what happened - when there was almost a video recording of many incidents. And my mother ususally just believes what my dad says happened, rather than remember what exactly happened.
I am sure your mother doesn't remember the other incidents.
But I am glad at least you are talking to her about these kind of things.
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 24, 2006, at 16:20:08
In reply to My mother - Trigger maybe, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 15:38:42
Dinah, I think it's wonderful that you are talking to you mother, and finding the good things as well as the bad things. From what you had posted about her before, I would have thought that she would be in complete denial, or would find a way to hurt you, if you brought up painful incidents from your childhood. But it sounds as though she is dealing with both the good and the bad thoughtfully- sounds pretty good!
Posted by All Done on May 24, 2006, at 16:32:21
In reply to My mother - Trigger maybe, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 15:38:42
Dinah,
My mom creates her own realities *all the time*. Nothing ever matches up with my sisters' and my version of anything. I think this is a coping skill from early on in her childhood. We've come to the conclusion that she believes what she is saying - *truly* believes it. There's no point in arguing with her, she "knows" she's right and it only creates frustration for us.
That doesn't make my reality hurt any less, though. In fact, most of the time, I hurt more because she can't acknowledge the truth. I want validation and sometimes apologies from her, but neither will ever happen.
Admittedly, I've forgotten a ton of my childhood. I believe it was an effective way for me to deal with a lot of hurt. I think there are a lot of reasons people might forget things. The difference between me and my mom? I don't fill in the blanks with a story when I don't remember.
Daisy's right. Mom stuff is hard.
Take gentle care,
Laurie
Posted by Racer on May 24, 2006, at 18:28:03
In reply to Re: My mother - Trigger maybe » Dinah, posted by All Done on May 24, 2006, at 16:32:21
Another daughter whose mother has "forgotten" here. In my mother's case, though, she remembers a few things wrong, in ways that make her MORE culpable, rather than less.
In fact, the one time we spoke about her ex-boyfriend molesting me, she remembered being in the room and watching him do it. Uh, no. He would catch me alone, there was no safe place or time in my life for years because of it.
I think in that case, she had to rewrite it so that she can say two contradictory things: "It really wasn't so bad, it couldn't have done much damage, because I was there, I know what happened, and if it had really been bad, I would have stopped it;" and "I'm so worthless, I allowed my daughter to be victimized in order to keep my boyfriend."
Hey, I didn't get crazy in a vacuum, you know...
And then there are other things, too, of course, but that one shows a pretty good example of what she does with events.
Interestingly, I recently asked my mother about a couple of events in my life, things that were very damaging to me (lasting damage, that hangs on today), and neither of us disappeared into a puff of smoke. Major progress, for both of us. The answer seems to be about what I thought it was -- a sort of narcissism, where she couldn't step in to help me, if it meant that she might face some unpleasantness herself. Much easier to tell me it was my fault, or I needed to do something differently. As she put it, when I asked about another instance of medical neglect on her part, "It wasn't my body, and I didn't want to face my family's reaction to it."
I think it is an ego defense mechanism, that their self-images cannot hold on to reality, so they modify the memories in order to survive.
And I'm not doing well, so I'll stop before I set myself off...
Posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 19:00:57
In reply to My mother - Trigger maybe, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 15:38:42
Wow, it sounds as if you had a very useful conversation with your mother. I’m glad that was possible for you!I don’t know about your particular situation, but I have been amazed at the stuff people are able to forget. I talked to my brother last week about all the violence in our late teens, and he didn’t remember any of it. He didn’t remember my father coming home from work and punching us; he didn’t remember dragging me out of my bed and punching me repeatedly in the face the night before one of my exams, and he didn’t remember breaking down my bedroom door.
I don’t know why some people remember and other people forget. But I’m certain that for the people who remember, the incidents were especially traumatic.
It’s also possible that people interpret the same event in very different ways. I read a journal article not long ago about the possibility that kids might interpret spanking as sexual abuse. The parent doesn’t necessarily intend it as sexual abuse, but the kid might interpret it that way because of the way butts are sexualised in society and because of the feelings involved. It’s an interesting idea and one that should probably be explored further. And it fits in with another idea I read about many years ago about various kinds of monkeys that present their buttocks to the more powerful monkey as a sign of submission (at which point if the buttock-presenting monkey is female, the male powerful monkey will often have sex with her). Admittedly, I’m not exactly providing references here… Anyway, it’s just an example of how people can interpret events in astonishingly different ways.
And yes, if she was out of control it’s probably even more likely that she’d forget. People often don’t like to remember how bad their behaviour has been. I went to a talk about domestic violence a while ago, and one of the speakers said the men who hit their wives are almost never able to describe exactly what they’ve done. They’ll say they slapped her around a bit when in fact they’ve put her in hospital. So it’s very common for people to minimise their own violence, apparently.
Just my two cents.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 21:33:10
In reply to Re: My mother - Trigger maybe » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 19:00:57
It really was a surprise to me as well. Obviously she was making a really big effort to repair a long strained relationship. It was a good conversation, the sort that I didn't think we'd ever be able to have again.
And she didn't deny anything.
I also told her a lot of what was going on with me in the time period involved. About how I quit telling her what was really wrong because she never believed me (I guess it did sound kind of nuts) so I would just be rebellious and refuse to do things without telling her why. She said that she did know that I was unhappy even after I started behaving well, and she did do her best to find me a new school where I could be happier (and was). But she was shocked at some of the things I did back then, like stockpiling the meds she doled out each night.
She remembered a lot of stuff perfectly. Like how I'd hide in my closet, and the odd thing that my teacher who was later discovered to molest some of his students told her. I remembered that too. It was after he had tried to give me one of his big bear hugs. I put up my arms so my elbows were out and looked him straight in the eyes and told him icily "I *don't* like to be touched."
And she even respected my request not to go into her sexual experiences with my father. I sometimes have a lot of trouble getting her to shut up about things like that.
I doubt it will last. But it was nice to experience.
Laurie, I have always been sure you must be my long lost sister. My mother fills in her missing memories too. It can be crazymaking.
Posted by MidnightBlue on May 25, 2006, at 0:02:18
In reply to Re: My mother - Trigger, posted by Dinah on May 24, 2006, at 21:33:10
Dinah,
I sent you a babble mail on this subject.
MB
Posted by B2chica on May 25, 2006, at 10:01:21
In reply to Re: My mother - Trigger maybe, posted by Racer on May 24, 2006, at 18:28:03
i must say this is a triggering thread for me. but racer i had to reply to your comments. what you said about how and why your mother would remember something someway reminds me of my mother...1)she would most likely remember that Nothing bad EVER happened to me growing up. that i made all that stuff up. 2)she likes to be the 'victim' and 3)also she has no boundries between me and her. if it's happened to me then it's happened to her and it wasn't that bad for her so i must be ok too. kinda stuff.
i've never talked to her about what happened when i was younger and i don't think i will ever be able to. she tries to consume me and the thought of that makes me want to explode. she really thinks she 'knows' me 100%, she thinks she even knows me better than my husband. it's as if i don't have a sense of self around her. and i want to pull my eyes out when she starts to act like this.
but i guess what i'm trying to say is i admire anyone who can approach their mother about their past. and still standing.
>>Hey, I didn't get crazy in a vacuum, you know...
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
i about spit out my slimfast shake when i read this...So true...So true...
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