![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Llurpsienoodle on January 9, 2007, at 23:33:18
Well, my mom has disappointed me.
seems that she wasn't feeling so great, so rather than find a T, as she promised me so many times in 2006, her new year's changes include
ta dah!!!
finding a new podiatrist
scheduling bunion surgery (um, duh. your feet haven't changed in 30 years. I wonder why you're doing that kind of surgery now? avoiDANCE????)and of course
a wierd powdered-food diet. you know
'cause for my mom, feeling BAD is all biological. best handled through surgery and diet. forgetfullness and lying will do in a pinch.
la piece de resistance...
"therapy is so inconvenient, but you know I'm committed to doing whatever will help my little girl"
yeah. and wearing a cast for 2 months isn't inconvenient?
dehydration? check.
leading horse to water? check
rehydration? negative.****
T says- this is so disappointing.
yes
Are you disappointed?
yes, but I'm not surprised.
Are you angry?
I guess. yes. sure. I'm angry.****
I'm about as angry as a sated mosquito sitting on a bulging artery. it's my nature to bite, but what's the point?
withdraw. disarm. ignore. what a waste of my saline. and klonopin.
Posted by muffled on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:01
In reply to I have nothing, posted by Llurpsienoodle on January 9, 2007, at 23:33:18
You have lots Noodle.
Just mebbe not a very together mom.
I reckon part of you saw this comming.
But part of you hoped SO much.......
and dissapointment.
Its all the same damn b*llshit.
Well, you are a good one noodle, you gonna do OK.
You don't NEED your ma to be OK.
You gonna get OK w/o her.
And what she does is up to her.
Sucks.
I cut myself off from my Ma a VERY long time ago.
I don't know what it is like to feel like I got safety, security.
But I have survived.
Yeah, this here muffleds gonna be OK, and so is noodle.
Take care you,
Muffled
Posted by Gee on January 10, 2007, at 13:30:21
In reply to I have nothing, posted by Llurpsienoodle on January 9, 2007, at 23:33:18
That's so dissapointing, I'd be angry too. Mom's are hard. Your mom sounds a lot like mine in some ways and it's hard for them to let go of anything... and everything (to my mom at least) is biological. Food solves everything... like in what we eat and food allergies and all that... I dont' know if I'm making sense. Sorry
Posted by littleone on January 10, 2007, at 14:37:53
In reply to I have nothing, posted by Llurpsienoodle on January 9, 2007, at 23:33:18
There's so much I want to say to you, but I don't have the words right now. Struggling a bit at the moment. I too confronted my mum and I feel like I have a lot to share with you.
I will have to come back to you later with my words.
In the meantime, please remember to focus on your own healing path. You can set aside her stuff and come back to it later. You are not responsible for her. You need to focus on you - first and foremost.
I know it's really hard and full of sad stuff and angry stuff.
If I hide for too long, can you please call me out? I really do want to talk to you about confronting mum stuff.
Posted by Llurpsie_noodle on January 10, 2007, at 14:46:34
In reply to Re: You have lots of wonderfulness inside you » Llurpsienoodle, posted by littleone on January 10, 2007, at 14:37:53
> In the meantime, please remember to focus on your own healing path. You can set aside her stuff and come back to it later. You are not responsible for her. You need to focus on you - first and foremost.
>
> I know it's really hard and full of sad stuff and angry stuff.
>
> If I hide for too long, can you please call me out? I really do want to talk to you about confronting mum stuff.Thanks littleone,
I'm just going to go hide under my "denial" rock for a while. pretend that all is well in Llurpsie-land.You're so right about finding my own healing path. I just ran into a dead end. trying to figure out where I went astray.
don't hide for too long. I'd love some company on my walk.
If we don't find each other soon, I'll send up a flare. my flares explode kind of like an upside-down kiwi-green daisy with a yellow center (Linden Blossom)
see you around,
-Ll
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 10, 2007, at 14:55:41
In reply to Re: I have nothing » Llurpsienoodle, posted by muffled on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:01
Thanks muffled,
I don't "need" her to get better, but :(Is it wrong to say that I need a mom?
On the one hand, she raised me to be independent from her. Her pride that I "taught myself" how to read at age 4. Her assumption that I could find my way home from 1st grade as a five-year-old.
Can't accept that I was neglected.
ugh.
The best predictor of future behavior is how the individual behaved in the past under similar circumstances.
That is one of my psychology mantras, coming back to bite my *ss.
((((muffled))))
well, you warned me, but it was too late. I think I'm strong enough to handle this disappointment. It's certainly easier to talk to my folks when we're all pretending to be happy again. Mom sounds so optimistic about her foot surgery. Who am I to take away her happy anticipation?
-Ll
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 10, 2007, at 15:02:44
In reply to Re: I have nothing, posted by Gee on January 10, 2007, at 13:30:21
food allergies!
haha that's a new one. For my mom, it's all about hormones. HOW many times do I need to remind her that I have no signs of a broken thyroid?I mean, seriously-- me and my 2 brothers all have SERIOUS psychopathology. Yet, our psychopathologies are diverse and perhaps unique. Certainly our personalities are.
Blame the hormones. Blame the genes. Any fault for our poor upraising is because of the father...
my T. "the first step in healing [the family] is for the passive parent to admit their role in allowing abuse to happen to their children"
phart.
Gee. My mother's memory is so porous. So fragmented. I don't know whether she's going to even remember my confrontation and follow-up discussions in 6mos or a year. Well. at least her foot will be a different shape.
So sorry that we should have these things in common.
later tater.
-Ll
Posted by muffled on January 10, 2007, at 18:07:33
In reply to Re: I have nothing » muffled, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 10, 2007, at 14:55:41
> Thanks muffled,
> I don't "need" her to get better, but :(
>
> Is it wrong to say that I need a mom?**Sorry if I seemed harsh :(
My own stuff dribbling in I guess...
Well, I don't think you 'need' a mom :( , but I sure reckon you proly 'want' one :(
Neglect hurts kids real bad. I been learning bout that.
I feel my mother loves me, she was just incapeable, for reasons of her own mental health, to care for us properly. And in those days it was all about show, and appearing to be the perfect together family. It was all about denial of there being any problems. I look back on what little I remember, and some stuff seems so bizzarre. But I guess when you in the thick of it, it just seems normal...
My ma never meant to hurt me.
She just is who she is.
I can't take care of her.
I tried.
I can't protect her.
I tried.
I just walked away.
And we pretend all is well.
I tell her nothing, she tells me nothing, we hug. Suits me fine. Seriously, mostly she just doesn't care, I really don't think she does, or she is unable to, I just don't know. Its the way it always has been, and I know I NEVER will be able to accept from her what I wish she could give. I don't hate her. But I have had to distance myself to survive.> On the one hand, she raised me to be independent from her. Her pride that I "taught myself" how to read at age 4. Her assumption that I could find my way home from 1st grade as a five-year-old.
>
> Can't accept that I was neglected.**Neglect has many faces. Our family was considered pretty good by most I think.
We camped, we had activities, we ate supper at the table every night, we had sunday dinners. We were a model family....
Little things slipped thru the cracks.....
Sigh..
Obvious things....I dunno....just somehow got missed???
Sigh...
>
> ugh.**yea, ugh.
> ((((muffled))))
**(((Noodle)))
>
> well, you warned me, but it was too late. I think I'm strong enough to handle this disappointment. It's certainly easier to talk to my folks when we're all pretending to be happy again. Mom sounds so optimistic about her foot surgery. Who am I to take away her happy anticipation?**I could not know what would happen. It seemed like such a cool idea....like something you read in a textbook, but has very little useful application IRL....
I dunno where your T gets that stuff from.
But i know so little.
I too am in denial.
Sorry it didn't work out :(
Muffled
Posted by Poet on January 10, 2007, at 18:52:10
In reply to I have nothing, posted by Llurpsienoodle on January 9, 2007, at 23:33:18
Hi Llurpsie,
I think you have a lot of something: good sense. You tried to get your mother to go to therapy, it's not your fault that she seems to be blaming bunions not emotions for what is really bothering her.
I'm sorry she disappointed you. Try not to take the blame on this one, you did your part, you really did.
Poet
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 10:14:31
In reply to Re: I have nothing » Llurpsienoodle, posted by Poet on January 10, 2007, at 18:52:10
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 10:14:58
In reply to Re: I have nothing » Llurpsienoodle, posted by Poet on January 10, 2007, at 18:52:10
yeah. I did my part. But it's a process.
I see two options right now (maybe 3)
1) I put a little more pressure on her in a month or two to get counselling. Perhaps I am complicit in the family's secrets because I try to go with the flow and never insist on having my own needs met. Guilty of "allowing" my mom to ignore me.
2) I learn to ignore the awful sinking feeling that comes from hearing love in their voices and feeling like I've betrayed them. I live my life and they live theirs, and when our lives intersect, I continue with my act that all is well (knowing that they will continue with theirs).
3) We drift apart. I would *like* some emotional intimacy with my mom, but maybe that's unrealistic, and I need to let that go.
Anyways.
I'm trying to get back on my path.
-Ll
Posted by littleone on January 11, 2007, at 14:16:56
In reply to Re: You have lots of wonderfulness inside you » littleone, posted by Llurpsie_noodle on January 10, 2007, at 14:46:34
I guess I’ve felt really concerned when I’ve read your posts about confronting your parents. I know you’ve confronted both of them, but to me it seems like you’re more focussed on your mum. Not sure if that is right, or if it is my stuff leaking through. I’m also having a real hard time remembering stuff you’ve said about all this, so I’m sorry in advance if I get things wrong here.
I tend to feel distressed when I read about how hard you’re pushing your mum to go to therapy and also when I read about how quickly you seem to want to resolve all this. I feel worried that you’re setting yourself up to be hurt.
It might help you to step back for a short while to consider some things. I think that when someone is confronting their parents about childhood problems or their present day relationship, it is very important to sit down by yourself and also with your T to work out exactly what you hope to gain from the confrontation. There are countless gains that people could be hoping for (eg hoping the parent will change, hoping the parent will start to fill some of the child’s unmet needs, hoping the parent will admit to things, hoping the parent will apologise, wishing for the perfect family, wanting to express rage at the parent, wanting to hurt the parent, wanting to elicit sympathy, wanting to erase the past, the list goes on and on and on).
I think it’s also important to then decide if the gain you are after is a realistic expectation. What your chances are of getting it. Whether it is a healthy gain to aim for. And very importantly, working out what it will mean to you if you do or don’t get it. I think it’s also important to try and consider all the possible responses you could get from the parent and what each of those responses would mean to you, how they would affect you.
I’m not sure if you have worked through these points with yourself and your T yet or not. But if you haven’t, it would probably be very helpful to do so.
I know that with my mum, I started confronting her back in May last year. I wasn’t able to do this until I had started to understand some of the patterns we play out with each other. Understanding these patterns beforehand was invaluable because it allowed me to take healthier steps forward instead of being stuck in old ruts. When things fell of track, I could see that it was probably because I fell back into an old pattern with her.
I had to determine beforehand what I wanted to achieve by confronting her. Having this clear healthy goal up front has helped a lot. Both with devising steps towards that goal, as well as helping me cope in hard times and keep moving forward. Mum things have been very hard for me lately and I think it’s partly because I’ve lost sight of the goal. Or I’ve learnt that I had other secret goals that need addressing.
It has been a very slow and very difficult process. There are so many things tied up in mum stuff, it raises a lot of problems for me along the way. I’ve had to learn that I can give my mum the opportunity to change, but I can’t expect her to change, or make her change. And I’ve had to learn how to be okay with that. I have to learn what she is able and capable of giving me, then I need to decide if I can be happy with that. I still have a long way to go before I even decide whether it is in my best interests to maintain a relationship with her or not. It has blown me away to learn that I can even make a choice like that. I had always thought that tolerating and being with family was a “have to” thing and it would be very very bad not to do it.
I think a really important part of this for me has been to stay focused on myself, rather than on her. Stay focused on what steps I am taking to move forward. I need to watch her, understand what she is or isn’t doing or saying, understand what’s happening between us, understand if patterns are trying to play out. But I only look at those things so I am able to focus on how I need to move forward. The only thing I can control is my own actions and reactions. Trying to control her does not help me.
I need to be focussed on meeting my own needs and I need to be focussed on determining what is in my best interests (as opposed to trying to fill her needs through our old patterns).
I would be really interested to hear what work you’ve done so far on the points I’ve talked about above and also on your continuing journey forward. Hearing about your journey can only help me in mine. I really struggle with mum stuff and get stuck a lot.
Posted by muffled on January 11, 2007, at 15:50:54
In reply to Re: You have lots of wonderfulness inside you » Llurpsie_noodle, posted by littleone on January 11, 2007, at 14:16:56
Sorry LL not meaning to mess with your thread, but this seemed to fit with it.......
So feel free to tell me to piss off if I am annoying you! :)
So:
My question is. I have disconnected from my mother as stated earlier. Not sure exactly when this happened, but long ago.
As recently as a year or so ago, I did feel a desire to help my Mom as I was realizing that she DID have probs.(guess I figgered this thru my own T somehow). So I mentioned to Dad, sisters as how she might be depressed or something etc etc. I pushed it a bit, but not much. I did not deal at all w/my Mom personally.
No action seems to have been taken, but I guess there is awareness within the family now anyways.
Now, now I just am completely disconnected. I feel I did what I cared to do on her behalf.
I COULD do more. I could try and connect w/her. I think it would make her happy. I don't think she's ever really had that and craves it from anyone. I think she got lots of love inside, she just f*cked up for some reason.
So. Now I wondering, am I bad cuz I DON'T try to help my MOm? Am I being selfish? I AM being safe, trying to keep myself safe from being hurt. Cuz I KNOW it will be one way. I can give to her, but I doubt she would be able to give anything back. She proly would get all mushy and I don't do emots.
On the one hand I've walked away, but now reading this thread I wonder, mebbe I should'nt have, I am being selfish....
She's old, and not so well....
Sh*t anyways.
Sorry so long.
Muffled
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 15:52:26
In reply to Re: You have lots of wonderfulness inside you » Llurpsie_noodle, posted by littleone on January 11, 2007, at 14:16:56
> I guess I’ve felt really concerned when I’ve read your posts about confronting your parents. I know you’ve confronted both of them, but to me it seems like you’re more focussed on your mum. Not sure if that is right, or if it is my stuff leaking through. I’m also having a real hard time remembering stuff you’ve said about all this, so I’m sorry in advance if I get things wrong here.
No problem. I focus more on my mom because my dad has dementia and amnesia. His brushes with death have made him reconsider his priorities, and he has been most apologetic for his behavior in the past. He's really difficult to talk to because he tends to obsess about details and doesn't really consider the big picture. He also has a very incomplete understanding of human emotions, beyond satisfaction and anger. I can't really teach him the vocabulary necessary to talk about my feelings at this point. Also (knowing that this sounds horrible) I just don't feel the need to be close to my dad. I don't really care if he plays a role in my future. So long as he's minimally annoying, I can tolerate his presence or absence.
My mom has always cast herself as the "good parent" and thus has built up a fortress of denial and dissociation. So, she's a tough nut to crack.
> I tend to feel distressed when I read about how hard you’re pushing your mum to go to therapy and also when I read about how quickly you seem to want to resolve all this. I feel worried that you’re setting yourself up to be hurt.I'm sorry to cause you distress and alarm. I'm doing pretty well right now, if that helps you to feel better. I think that my particular trajectory is not linear or gradual. Sometimes it's discontinuous. Like the seemingly sudden onset of intense sensorimotor flashbacks of very early memories. Like the whirlwind of memories that my bruised brain was trying to knit into a coherent story all at once.
I'm sure that part of me *IS* setting myself up to be hurt or disappointed. yep.
> It might help you to step back for a short while to consider some things. I think that when someone is confronting their parents about childhood problems or their present day relationship, it is very important to sit down by yourself and also with your T to work out exactly what you hope to gain from the confrontation. There are countless gains that people could be hoping for (eg hoping the parent will change, hoping the parent will start to fill some of the child’s unmet needs, hoping the parent will admit to things, hoping the parent will apologise, wishing for the perfect family, wanting to express rage at the parent, wanting to hurt the parent, wanting to elicit sympathy, wanting to erase the past, the list goes on and on and on).
yes, I had some homework from my T to write out some of these things. My journal entry was not very coherent. It skipped between hopes/desires and fury. Between regrets about the past, and defensive denials. I wasn't so organized. Part of me wants to make her understand _____? Part of me wants to hurt her back. Kick her when she's down. Take THAT! Part of me wants to be close to her, and to share with her the hurt in my heart. All kinds of gunk. Complex. Conflicted.
> I think it’s also important to then decide if the gain you are after is a realistic expectation. What your chances are of getting it. Whether it is a healthy gain to aim for. And very importantly, working out what it will mean to you if you do or don’t get it. I think it’s also important to try and consider all the possible responses you could get from the parent and what each of those responses would mean to you, how they would affect you.#1. I want to have my Mom be a mother to me in the future. I want her to be there with me when I have a baby, and to trust her to be a responsive grandma to my child/ren.
#3I want to be able to spend time with her without suppressing rage and frustration. It's exhausting. I wish I could enjoy her company. Other people do.
> I’m not sure if you have worked through these points with yourself and your T yet or not. But if you haven’t, it would probably be very helpful to do so.
>
> I know that with my mum, I started confronting her back in May last year. I wasn’t able to do this until I had started to understand some of the patterns we play out with each other. Understanding these patterns beforehand was invaluable because it allowed me to take healthier steps forward instead of being stuck in old ruts. When things fell of track, I could see that it was probably because I fell back into an old pattern with her.yeah, T said we're gonna have to talk about MY role in perpetuating the bad parts of this relationship. It's always easier to blame the other person than to do the hard work of changing my own behavior.
> I had to determine beforehand what I wanted to achieve by confronting her. Having this clear healthy goal up front has helped a lot. Both with devising steps towards that goal, as well as helping me cope in hard times and keep moving forward. Mum things have been very hard for me lately and I think it’s partly because I’ve lost sight of the goal. Or I’ve learnt that I had other secret goals that need addressing.
Well, all things in time? secret goals are more important right now? or perhaps foundational for the icing on the cake (satisfying relationship with your mom).
> It has been a very slow and very difficult process. There are so many things tied up in mum stuff, it raises a lot of problems for me along the way. I’ve had to learn that I can give my mum the opportunity to change, but I can’t expect her to change, or make her change. And I’ve had to learn how to be okay with that. I have to learn what she is able and capable of giving me, then I need to decide if I can be happy with that. I still have a long way to go before I even decide whether it is in my best interests to maintain a relationship with her or not. It has blown me away to learn that I can even make a choice like that. I had always thought that tolerating and being with family was a “have to” thing and it would be very very bad not to do it.I cannot put this into better words. Duty/Loyalty goes a long way when love is uncertain, but it cannot sustain a relationship forever.
> I think a really important part of this for me has been to stay focused on myself, rather than on her. Stay focused on what steps I am taking to move forward. I need to watch her, understand what she is or isn’t doing or saying, understand what’s happening between us, understand if patterns are trying to play out. But I only look at those things so I am able to focus on how I need to move forward. The only thing I can control is my own actions and reactions. Trying to control her does not help me.Yes, I don't try to control her. I may try to influence her own choices. I am disappointed when she chooses X over me. Knowing that I had FORCED her to pick me over X-- makes things empty and meaningless. Especially as concerns psychotherapy.
>
> I need to be focussed on meeting my own needs and I need to be focussed on determining what is in my best interests (as opposed to trying to fill her needs through our old patterns).
>
> I would be really interested to hear what work you’ve done so far on the points I’ve talked about above and also on your continuing journey forward. Hearing about your journey can only help me in mine. I really struggle with mum stuff and get stuck a lot.
>
I'll keep you posted. Thanks for your very thoughtful post. You have a lot of wisdom. I'm sorry if I seem cavalier or careless about this particular aspect of my life (mom-me relationship). Sarcasm and flippancy is one way I have of downplaying how important something is to me. My confrontation with my parents fell into one pattern I have which is: Pull the Tooth NOW. I didn't really think about recovery time. But I did select a time when I felt fairly stable and healthy on my part. Oops, just found out I gotta run. more later. I think.yours,
-Ll
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 22:28:17
In reply to Am I bad?, posted by muffled on January 11, 2007, at 15:50:54
> Sorry LL not meaning to mess with your thread, but this seemed to fit with it.......
> So feel free to tell me to piss off if I am annoying you! :)Oh I will, don't worry!! (except that today T and I established that I am agreeable to the brink of self-destruction. oops, minor complication)
> So:
> My question is. I have disconnected from my mother as stated earlier. Not sure exactly when this happened, but long ago.
> As recently as a year or so ago, I did feel a desire to help my Mom as I was realizing that she DID have probs.(guess I figgered this thru my own T somehow). So I mentioned to Dad, sisters as how she might be depressed or something etc etc. I pushed it a bit, but not much. I did not deal at all w/my Mom personally.
> No action seems to have been taken, but I guess there is awareness within the family now anyways.
> Now, now I just am completely disconnected. I feel I did what I cared to do on her behalf.
> I COULD do more. I could try and connect w/her. I think it would make her happy. I don't think she's ever really had that and craves it from anyone. I think she got lots of love inside, she just f*cked up for some reason.
> So. Now I wondering, am I bad cuz I DON'T try to help my MOm? Am I being selfish? I AM being safe, trying to keep myself safe from being hurt. Cuz I KNOW it will be one way. I can give to her, but I doubt she would be able to give anything back. She proly would get all mushy and I don't do emots.
> On the one hand I've walked away, but now reading this thread I wonder, mebbe I should'nt have, I am being selfish....
> She's old, and not so well....
> Sh*t anyways.
> Sorry so long.
> MuffledHoly Moly! you think that's LONG?!?! um. have you READ my last response to littleone? lol
I think... (pause)... that you have a lot of wonderfulness inside you. I think that you do a lot of very good things in your day to day life, including helping out Llurpsienoodles and other needy souls. When you are strong enough to help your mom out, you will know. Often the best advice to others is that they seek out help when they are ready for it. You can lead a horse to water... etc.
Spread the word that doctors can help people with depression. Maybe if she views it as a "medical condition" than it won't be so hard for her to get some attention.
As far as giving her love-- Well, the best love is love that you loan someone, and that they return with interest. If you have a lot of extra love to spread around some days, sure you can share some with your mom. But you don't want to make her dependent on your love. She should be able to generate her own love every now and then too, IMO. If you keep on sharing your love and it's not returned to you then you will feel some kind of bad. I don't want you to feel bad.
your friend,
Lurps
Posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:05:03
In reply to Re: Am I bad? » muffled, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 22:28:17
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 11:34:10
In reply to Thx (nm) » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:05:03
Well, I'm having a hard time finding stuff to talk about with T. I'm not super-distressed about anything right now. I just feel like I don't know quite what to work on. Lots of empty silences, skipping from one topic to another. I finally found one to talk about- my fear of MEN! yikes.
no offense men. I'm just afraid of you, that's all. nothing major.
Okay. maybe there are some good reasons for it. Maybe there are some crazy reasons for it. How do I tell the difference?
-Ll
Posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:41:47
In reply to ho hum..., posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 11:34:10
> Well, I'm having a hard time finding stuff to talk about with T. I'm not super-distressed about anything right now. I just feel like I don't know quite what to work on. Lots of empty silences, skipping from one topic to another. I finally found one to talk about- my fear of MEN! yikes.
>
> no offense men. I'm just afraid of you, that's all. nothing major.
>
> Okay. maybe there are some good reasons for it. Maybe there are some crazy reasons for it. How do I tell the difference?**Ah a dry spell. ENJOY! Shoot the breeze, bond with your T! I used to freak thinking it was bad, but dry spells are wonderful gifts so we can recharge.
It may be that you need to reconnect w/T after the long break.
Then next thing you know, there's not enough time to discuss all the stuff the bubbles, or erupts out of me....
Men.
Sigh.
I think all women must have some inbred fear of men.
I doubt theres many women that don't have some fear of men buried in their psyche somewhere.
I think men have been hurting women since forever. They are physically stronger.
Ugh.
Bad topic.
Good luck with it.
I don't think I want to go to the power place.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 12:01:53
In reply to Re: ho hum... » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:41:47
> > Well, I'm having a hard time finding stuff to talk about with T. I'm not super-distressed about anything right now. I just feel like I don't know quite what to work on. Lots of empty silences, skipping from one topic to another. I finally found one to talk about- my fear of MEN! yikes.
> >
> > no offense men. I'm just afraid of you, that's all. nothing major.
> >
> > Okay. maybe there are some good reasons for it. Maybe there are some crazy reasons for it. How do I tell the difference?
>
> **Ah a dry spell. ENJOY! Shoot the breeze, bond with your T! I used to freak thinking it was bad, but dry spells are wonderful gifts so we can recharge.
> It may be that you need to reconnect w/T after the long break.HEY! I told my T at the end of the session yesterday "I forgot to tell you last time that I missed you over the break" She smiled and seemed really pleased. (((t))) and she said that she wrote her christmas cards, but for some reason she didn't have my address in her book, and didn't send mine, and felt silly sending it after the holidays. She said she would give it to me in person next week. I said I would like that.
Wow, sounds almost like a normal conversation, huh? not like a psycho and her therapist. Hmm. what happened to all my neurotic hedging: um, you don't have to bring me the card if you don't want to, I mean it's not like, um, I guess it might be okay if you, um. well, I guess it's time to go. um. see you next week. lol
I wonder if she wrote nice stuff in there. Ouch. that might hurt. I hate it when people write nice stuff about me to me. Okay, I'm convinced that there's plenty of neuroticism left in me to fill up a few more sessions. :)
later, muff. This noodle's got no plans on Friday evening. <<LOSER>> maybe she'll find some friends on the babble chat later?
-Ll
Posted by littleone on January 19, 2007, at 17:03:29
In reply to Re: You have lots of wonderfulness inside you » littleone, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 11, 2007, at 15:52:26
> yes, I had some homework from my T to write out some of these things. My journal entry was not very coherent. It skipped between hopes/desires and fury. Between regrets about the past, and defensive denials. I wasn't so organized. Part of me wants to make her understand _____? Part of me wants to hurt her back. Kick her when she's down. Take THAT! Part of me wants to be close to her, and to share with her the hurt in my heart. All kinds of gunk. Complex. Conflicted.
Hi Llurpsie,
I too had many conflicting wants in the process. It sounds like maybe it was all a bit overwhelming and tied up and hard for you to sort out? I found it so important to put in a lot of effort into clarifying and separting all these wants. Then looking at each one.
For example, my young part wants comforting and nurturing from my mum (which simply won't happen). So I had to work very hard on mothering that part myself so it wasn't left disappointed from mum interactions.
I also had a part that is full of rage against mum and wants to lash out and hurt her and be mad and let her know how awful she's been. But I had to learn to accept that by doing so, it would probably drive my mother further away from me and would not help me in meeting my other goals. So at the moment that part is not allowed to lash out at mum, but can express the rage to me and my T through journalling, art, etc.
When you sit down and figure out what all your conflicting wants are, I think it's important to not just dismiss the ones you don't like. I think it's important to figure out which one you're aiming for and then find other ways of filling the other wants. Then they may lose their strength and make it easier to focus on the main goal when you interact with your mum.
> #1. I want to have my Mom be a mother to me in the future. I want her to be there with me when I have a baby, and to trust her to be a responsive grandma to my child/ren.
>
> #3I want to be able to spend time with her without suppressing rage and frustration. It's exhausting. I wish I could enjoy her company. Other people do.See these goals may conflict. In #1, when you say "responsive", do you mean you want her to be non-dissociative and more warm and present and real with your future children? If that's right, then if you're more real with her (as part of #3), then that may cause more dissociation in her. Especially if you express anger, disappointment, frustration, etc with her.
> Yes, I don't try to control her. I may try to influence her own choices. I am disappointed when she chooses X over me. Knowing that I had FORCED her to pick me over X-- makes things empty and meaningless. Especially as concerns psychotherapy.
This paragraph sent up red flags for me. You say you want her to get therapy so she gets the help she needs. But it sounds like in the above paragraph, you would feel empty and meaningless if she got therapy because you forced her - even if it ended up helping her. It sounds like you want her to voluntarily choose therapy because you are worth making those changes for. That by her choosing therapy, then that proves something (eg that she loves you, thinks you're worthy, etc). It sounds like you are basing your worth on how she responds to you.
If that is correct, then there's another secret want hiding away that you should probably address so it doesn't interfere with the goal you're trying to achieve.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 17:40:16
In reply to Confronting mothers stuff » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by littleone on January 19, 2007, at 17:03:29
Yep,
red flags go up for me when I write about this stuff.Here's some more red flag-worthy thoughts.
I want her to comfort me and cuddle me.
I don't trust her to be there for me.
I don't tell her when I'm hurting.
I expect her to know when I'm hurting.yep. all of those are true.
I've never talked with my T about parts of me. Younger parts and such. We talk about how the reactions I have to certain circumstances may have been the best way for me to survive as a child but that they are maladaptive right now.
I'm not having a very stable day, so I'm not going to think about these issues right now beyond the very surface that I'm aware of and can see.
More later... thanks again for your insights. I'm sorry that I cannot do them justice, but I'm keeping my heart under lock and key this weekend.
-Ll
Posted by muffled on January 21, 2007, at 23:19:03
In reply to Re: ho hum... » muffled, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 12:01:53
So did ya get a card from T lurpy?
Was it OK or just plain?
See ya.
Muffled
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 23:49:02
In reply to Re: ho hum... » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by muffled on January 21, 2007, at 23:19:03
Well, no card yet. I think about it a couple of times a week. I don't know about reminding her though.
I'll ask her again on Tues.
It's been 2 sessions, but we had other stuff to talk about.
now we will get to talk about my new medicines, and also some intense feelings that I struggled with a few days ago.
they were ugly. uglier than I've had in a Long Time.
:(
feeling better now, but why am I not sleepy?
(new meds? yikes...)-Ll
Posted by muffled on January 21, 2007, at 23:54:34
In reply to Re: ho hum... » muffled, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 23:49:02
> Well, no card yet. I think about it a couple of times a week. I don't know about reminding her though.
>
> I'll ask her again on Tues.**DO ask please. sorta dissapointing when our T's forget stuff like that tho.
>
> they were ugly. uglier than I've had in a Long Time.
>
**Sorry bout the bad thots :( Hope they passed quickly. Keep safe.
Muffled
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