![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
Something suddenly burst into my brain as the explanation for what my therapist said yesterday. It's very unlikely given ages, but not absolutely impossible.
There are definitely reasons against self disclosure. And there are definitely even better reasons why they shouldn't disclose a little without disclosing everything.
And don't even ask that I ask him about it. It's something I could never ever ever ask anyone about. And it's nothing he'd say yes or no to even if I did ask.
And I have even less desire (and so would he I assure you) to explore why this particular thought popped in my mind. Moreover, I know why this particular thought popped into my mind, and there's no need to explore it.
And no, it's not about sex. I just can't stop thinking that he's trying not to tell me that he's going to be having a baby. Well his wife.
I know he wouldn't answer because years ago he left a congratulatory card on his desk, and I asked him about it. He said it was for his birthday, but it wasn't that sort of congratulations. All the people he worked with had signed it "congratulations" not "happy birthday". He had it propped up on his desk as if he were showing it off, although it was gone the next time I was there. I knew he was lying, but figured it was his own business. Six months later he told me he was getting married in a month or two weeks or something. He had every right to keep that to himself. It was none of my business. It was even ok to lie to me about it, although it would have been nicer if he just hadn't displayed the card. He told me I was the first client he'd told about it, and I believe him. I never brought any of this up with him of course.
But that's why I can't ask. Because it's none of my business.
Posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 12:05:00
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
Everything I'm learning tells me that your unconscious will read and "talk to" his unconscious. This might not happen in a concrete way - he might not be really having a child, but he might be longing for one, or having regrets about not having one, or something along those lines. It may even be that he had thoughts of caring for you as if he would his own daughter...but something (you said you know what it is)is sending that signal.
Isn't it interesting how "polite" we still are, even after so much personal disclosure? Sometimes questions pop in my mind about my therapist and I stiffle them immediately. The rules are that this is about me. I find it a huge step to be able to ask him, "what are you thinking?" if he doesn't offer his thoughts. Although, this summer I did lose it with him and yell at him that he doesn't trust me, he never tells me "anything" and yet he expects me to tell him "everything!" He was keeping something from me, I could feel it and I was right.
So...maybe you are right. Then, of course the question -- "what would this mean for me?" is bound to pop in.
*sigh* Shouldn't this process get easier, eventually?
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 12:24:48
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Dinah, posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 12:05:00
I'm really not sure why I thought of this, other than it's something I've always feared.
On his part, all he did was be a bit more indirect on how he worded something than he usually is. At the time, nothing about it made me uneasy. It wasn't until the middle of the night that I thought baby.
So I'm not sure that he did anything to spark this, other than to be somewhat evasive in something he said, and to be rather more affectionate and fatherly with me than he usually is. Like maybe he was trying to make something up to me... (grin)
And of course, it's something I've feared since he got married.
And I'd be soooo jealous of a baby. Goodness, I'm an awful person. I would of course try to be glad for him to experience fatherhood from baby up. But I would fail miserably and wish to change places with a poor defenseless infant.
Of course, it's also highly unlikely at his age, although she's considerably younger.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 12:35:33
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Dinah, posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 12:05:00
Oooh. Just wanted to add something really nice he said yesterday.
I was telling him that he's more congruent now. That he used to say and act one thing, but I'd pick up other things I could feel from him. But that now when I feel he's angry, he'll say he's angry. And if I feel he's bored, he'll say he's tired or distracted but that it isn't at all my fault (because he's not rude enough to say he's bored). In other words, what he says now matches what I pick up from him, and the rare times it doesn't he'll admit that he is feeling something else.
I told him with a grin that that's probably just because he knows I'll know if he's not honest with me about what he's feeling. And he said he thought it was because he had become more mature as a therapist. I was sort of disappointed and said that I'd hoped it was because of the hard work we'd put in to build a relationship, and he answered with another warm smile that the hard work we'd put in were a large part of what helped him mature as a therapist.
Wasn't that sweet?
Posted by canadagirl on January 23, 2007, at 13:08:12
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
Oh no I think you are on the right track definitely, it's strange what we pick up and what subconsciously they deliver to our subconscious. I knew for sure in my own mind, that my ex t had met someone and was very happy, got married, or living together, whatever he's doing, without him saying a word. The tone, the lightness about his style, something subtle was different, I picked up on it right away and found out later that it was true.
And it's perfectly normal to be jealous, or whatever, if in fact it is true with yours . We have a very intimate relationship with them and we have human emotions. Isn't it a darn thing being human.
Posted by happykat on January 23, 2007, at 13:10:35
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
Hi Dinah,
Thats interesting. It's amazing how in tune one can become with their t. Do you think if it is the case that he will at some point disclose it to you? Would you want to know?
I completely understand the jealousy. I admitted to my t that I'm jealous everytime she talks about her daughters. I can't help it. I just am. It drives me crazy! :( She ended the session last wk w/ a story about her grandkids and I was so upset over it. At least I know where its coming from now so I don't feel like I'm totally insane.
Does he self disclose at all? Do you know much about him?
>> hard work we'd put in were a large part of what helped him mature as a therapist. Wasn't that sweet? <<
I think it's very sweet :) Maybe he should be paying you. LOL :) At least you know you're helping him grow as a t.
Regards,
happykat :)
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 13:18:36
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought, posted by happykat on January 23, 2007, at 13:10:35
If by any chance it's true, I think he'd pretty much have to mention it at some point or another. Babies are hard to hide, even if he wouldn't be the one with the belly.
He self discloses readily. Very readily. I generally know most everything big that goes on with him. And a fair amount of small things.
That probably wasn't as true at the time he got married. But the main reason he didn't tell me then and wouldn't tell me now is that he figured I might react badly, and he wouldn't want to have to deal with that.
I still think it's highly unlikely. If by any chance it's true, I'm going to have to upgrade myself from semi-psychic to psychic.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 13:21:58
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Dinah, posted by canadagirl on January 23, 2007, at 13:08:12
I guesss it might be normal, but I would feel really guilty about it. :(
Can you imagine though. Being a tiny baby cradled in your therapist's protective arms? Close to his milky breasts?
Of course the reality of parenthood is not that blissful. Especially once the child is no longer an infant.
Hmmm... While there's no way to ask him if he's pregnant, I suppose I could talk to him about general wishes of that sort...
Posted by annierose on January 23, 2007, at 13:28:37
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
I would gather that you are probably right about your thoughts. And I understand your mixed feelings about your t becoming a parent.
I smiled a knowing smile --- when my therapist announced her pregnancy to me 17 years ago, I up and quit. (Of course, the rational side knows it wasn't the real reason, but it tipped the scales towards intolerable.)
It's such a complicated relationship. Why do we put ourselves through this??
Posted by Poet on January 23, 2007, at 13:28:38
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
Hi Dinah,
Technically it is none of your business, but then again a child could effect his scheduling of appointments and then it is your business. Okay, I'm trying to find a logical sounding reason to ask him.
I knew my T had a grandchild before she told me she did because she has a baby seat in her car and her two children are grown. Do you know what your T's car looks like? If so start checking it out for when that car seat appears.
I have something I am dying to ask my T, but it would be a major boundary so I can't. Darn those boundaries.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 13:59:32
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 23, 2007, at 13:28:38
I think I preferred thinking I was insane.
There is no way to directly ask him, but there are ways to mention my feelings about feeling jealous when he talks about holding his nieces and nephews, or something like that. And that's perfectly legitimate. Or I can just trust that I'm nuts and it's one of those OCD thoughts that occasionally enter my head about feared events.
Still, I'm relatively sure he's not going to have a baby. His stepdaughter is nearly grown, and he's fifty and I think his wife is only ten or so years younger and very happy with her career, as best I can make out from snippets here and there. Not too old to have children but all told not too likely if they haven't had them by now. Wouldn't you think?
Not-that-I-wouldn't-be-very-happy-for-him-to-have-an-experience-that-I-found-very-rewarding-etc-etc.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 14:02:19
In reply to Y'all are scaring me!, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 13:59:32
His wife distinctly told me in my dream about the time that he got married that he was a eunuch. A woman wouldn't lie in my dream, would she?
Of course, the thought occurred to me so early in the morning, that it was likely a dream too. A dream sparked by his affectionate tone yesterday maybe. I'm supposed to mention dreams right? Even ones that couldn't be true because his wife told me in a previous dream that he was a eunuch.
Posted by Honore on January 23, 2007, at 14:42:34
In reply to Besides...., posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 14:02:19
Um, yes, a woman could "lie" in a dream--ie say things that aren't actually true. Or say things that have metaphoric significance, or various types of significance that aren't entirely obvious.
And also, I think you're jumping to conclusions based on an idea that you have, or a fear that you have, or a feeling of jealousy and desire for closeness (or a father) that you have-- and that there's no reason to believe that your fears and desires, or the "insane" thoughts that spring from them and seem totally conclusive, and unmistakably and horribly true (and which, in fact, are derived from vague and ambiguous statements made by the other person) are indicators, or predictors, or reflections of reality.
I'd check it out. I'd definitely talk about the phantasy and what it means to you-- not allusively in talking about nephews and nieces, while you're panicking about his having a baby. That could reinforce your own terrible fears-- without in any way actually confirming (or disconfirming) them.
Honore
Posted by Tamar on January 23, 2007, at 17:13:44
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
... as I so regularly do... but I couldn't help doing a bit of a double take when you said:
> And no, it's not about sex. I just can't stop thinking that he's trying not to tell me that he's going to be having a baby.
Call me a pervert, but isn't having a baby something to do with sex? Even if he doesn't want to tell you about it? Even if it's 'just' a fantasy or your imagination?
Dunno what it means of course...
But I agree with others: we can usually sense when something's up with those therapists!
Posted by Tamar on January 23, 2007, at 17:18:49
In reply to Besides...., posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 14:02:19
> His wife distinctly told me in my dream about the time that he got married that he was a eunuch. A woman wouldn't lie in my dream, would she?
I certainly hope not! My mother told me in a dream that my therapist was a virgin and she'd better have been telling the truth!
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 23, 2007, at 17:40:40
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Daisym, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 12:35:33
Very sweet of him to say that, Dinah. And no doubt true (because you'd know if he was lying, right?). I'm glad he said it, I'm glad you heard it and remembered it and I hope he's not having a baby.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:15:04
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on January 23, 2007, at 17:40:40
And ready to put the insane thought back to being an insane thought. It's based on nothing at all really. Maybe it did have something to do with a dream. My husband tells me I've been talking a lot lately during the night and obviously having distressed dreams.
I did have a fun therapy conversation with myself though. "What would it mean to you if I were having a baby?" "Well, first I'd be terrified that I really was psychic."
:)
It's nice when you've been to therapy so long you can have the whole therapeutic dialogue in your head.
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:17:54
In reply to Re: Besides.... » Dinah, posted by Tamar on January 23, 2007, at 17:18:49
Posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 19:47:11
In reply to Calmer now, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:15:04
This thread sparked a conversation about questions in therapy today. He asked me if there was anything I knew about him that I wished I didn't know -- I said, "yes, I know you will always want to know why I want to know something, and I wish I didn't know that so I could ask more questions." He laughed. But really, there isn't much that I know that I wish I didn't. I might wish it wasn't true, but I don't wish I didn't know.
I think I know exactly what you mean by matching his words to your feelings. I'm glad he recognizes how tuned in you are. And such a sweet compliment and I'm positive a true one!
Doesn't he always talk to you in a warm and affectionate tone?
Posted by 10derHeart on January 23, 2007, at 22:22:22
In reply to Calmer now, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:15:04
>>It's nice when you've been to therapy so long you can have the whole therapeutic dialogue in your head.
Yes. It's only been 2 years for me, but still, I do this so much - and then sometimes I share how my one-person session went with my T. later. He usually agrees closely with what I had him saying. He also will ask when I say I've been doing that, "How did I do?" (A replacement for, "How was I?" which I told him a while back just didn't sound right at all??!!)
Recently, he asked me if I'd just like to write my checks to myself :-)
Sweet, funny man. Think I'll keep him, even if I *do* do some of our sessions all by myself in my head.
And p.s. Dinah, I don't think your T. is having a baby. Don't know why exactly. I just don't *feel* it. Of course, what the heck do I know? But still, I'll bet if it's anything, it's something else. Keep us posted.
Posted by ShortElise on January 24, 2007, at 14:12:34
In reply to Sudden insane thought, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 11:48:00
WIth no hints except a few weeks off and a slight weight gain, I figured out my T's wife was expecting. He was astonsihed. I intuited it. I told him I thought he was expecting a baby and he told me I was right. It was very cool. I felt very ... intuitive!
I'd ask, obviously. WHy not? Because you are afraid he'll reject your questions and make you feel badly. But, hey, if he is expecting, he'll be a littel sleep deprived for a while (18 years!), a little distracted, etc.
If'n it were me, I'd preface my question with my fears, and ask him nicely if he wouldn't mind sharing this little bit of info with you as your intuition was telling you loud and clear.
And I think you can know. I don't see why not. SOme T's are weird about sharing things from their lives, others might learn that it can be helpful to their clients to share a little.
Posted by Dinah on January 24, 2007, at 20:08:01
In reply to Re: Sudden insane thought, posted by ShortElise on January 24, 2007, at 14:12:34
I really shouldn't be here, but I wanted to answer the burning question.
I told him I didn't know if I thought I may have dreamed about him again, because I woke up with the thought that he was pregnant, or I suppose his wife was, and I had real trouble shaking it. And that you all hadn't dismissed the idea as reassuringly as I would have preferred.
His instant laughter and unfeigned horror was very reassuring. I suspect that this is not something he and his wife have anywhere near in mind, or would try for.
In the ensuing discombobulation on both our parts, it was quite easy to discuss how I'd feel about it, and to brush aside his lack of comprehension about why I'd feel that way with a breezy assurance that many long term clients would react the same way. Since it was clearly not true, or likely to be true, and since he said he had no experience because he'd never had a baby (don't they teach these things?!!!) there was no real discomfort in it.
In fact the whole thing led to an uproariously hilarious rest of the session. I'm not sure how therapeutic it was in a deep or meaningful sense, but it was bonding and fun, and it distracted me from my troubles for a bit. I think he's going to wake up with a really bad case of Chatter's Remorse though.
By the way, what really was bothering him was, in the broadest sense, something such that you could claim that my thought was psychically communicated from him to me. But only in the very broadest sense.
Posted by canadagirl on January 26, 2007, at 15:23:34
In reply to Psssst, posted by Dinah on January 24, 2007, at 20:08:01
aaah.... thank you for breaking the tension ;it would have been awful to keep checking this thread for nine months for the news. :)
Posted by Dinah on January 26, 2007, at 21:21:50
In reply to Re: Psssst » Dinah, posted by canadagirl on January 26, 2007, at 15:23:34
Posted by Honore on January 30, 2007, at 23:38:51
In reply to Re: Psssst » Dinah, posted by canadagirl on January 26, 2007, at 15:23:34
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.