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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Wittgenstein on September 7, 2007, at 7:38:17
Hi RealMe,
I was just wondering how T went today after the way you felt earlier in the week. I hope it was a good session and that you were able to discuss the last session without it being too embarrassing.
I thought I'd give an update - I was thinking for quite a while about lying down on the couch for therapy. Well, I tried this a couple of times but didn't like it. I missed being able to fix on the interesting things in his room and the sunlight from the skylight was a little uncomfortable on my eyes. That said, lying back is very relaxing and his closeness (i.e. sitting just behind my head) was not as intimidating as I had thought. I suppose with sitting, there is the comfort that I can always glimpse at him - at his face - mostly I stare at the floor or at an object in the room.
Take care,
Witti
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 10:41:37
In reply to RealMe - how did it go today?, posted by Wittgenstein on September 7, 2007, at 7:38:17
What you say about the lying down part, I think it would probably be okay, but I just don't want to say that to him yet. I am not sure why. I spend a lot of time looking at the floor too so why not try lying down. I suppose if I got too uncomfortable I could always sit up. Freud's Wolf Man used to even walk around the room! Don't think I could do that.
So I had to drive to my appointment in pouring rain as I missed the train, and so there I was on the expressway when I heard there had been a bad accident up by the exit I take. So I got off earlier and tried a different route and got somewhat confused as I only know a few main roads closer to the Lake. Anyway, I did make it on time, barely. So he calls me in, and he is late again by a few minutes. It was okay with me, but of course I had to check my watch after I was out the door, and he gave me the three minutes.
Anyway, I went in and sat on the couch closer again and started laughing and laughing, from embarassment. He looked puzzled and then started laughing with me. I then told him about how embarassed I was about what happened on Wednesday as if I was a little child who didn't get as much ice cream as the other children. OOPS. Then he looked real serious, and said somethng about the little girl who is still in there and who is feeling so hurt and deprived. AGGGGH. So then I told him about his comment about coming out to play with him and what that triggered. OOPS. More seriousness and how that goes back to feeling it is not okay to ask for anything for myself. I made a comment that no one ever came out to play with me when I sat on the porch and waited and waited. Only the guy down the street who sexually abused me was willing to be with me, and he was not really a friend (obviously).
I did not want to go on with that subject but made some comment about my doctor and then therapist from Menninger's who died in August 2004, but I didn't know about it until November 2004 when I got my Alumni Newsletter. My T seems to think I still need to do some grieving, that part of my depression may be grieving for my old T and for my brother and for my father. I told him he was nuts about my brother and father, my brother the sexual and physical abuser??? no way, and the father I never really knew. So yes, miss not having a father, and re my brother, he says that even though I was hurt by him I don't talk about him in negative ways now. I recognize he was sick. This led to my work with abusers and victims, and how have I done this with my own issues. Easy I said, I am not them; they did not abuse me, and after all even abusers have pain, suffering, and even some good qualities. That surprised him, but I truely see things that way.
Anyway, I started talking about my reports as I try to tie everything together in the analysis, the history, interview, psych testing, discovery materials, etc. to give a picture, a sense of who is this person and what does this person need. It was sort of in response to his saying he has not been impressed with the psych testing reports he has read for consultations. THEN: BOOOM.
Just what we have been talking about on another thread. He says to me, "I know you do that with your reports; I read one of your reports." AGGGGGGGHH!!!! I asked if from Menninger's or from the Courts, as my Menninger reports are ten times better. He said no from the courts. AGGGGGH! He then volunteered who the person was, not by name, but by the criminal act, a young man from a fairly affluent family. My guess is they were trying to get this kid into my T's residential program for 18 to 30 year-olds. He said he rejected him as being too psychopathic. I cannot remember the kid really, only vaguely, and apparently it has been at least a couple of years ago I saw him. He did not take the kid into his program it sounded like. YIKES. Well we both saw this person professionally, and his criminal acts are public knowledge. So, what does this mean. I just was so embarased as most of my reports for court, I have to rush through.
At the end of the session, he said to me that one day he will do less "educating" with me, meaning telling me how some things fit together. For now he thinks I am so emotional that he needs to help me keep things wrapped up and making sense in the present. So, I guess the day will come when he won't answer my questions and won't make interpretations that tie things together for me. I made a face about something from earlier, and he said to me, "Come on RealMe, you have to let me do my job." I said I know, it's okay; and anyway isn't better that I acknowledge what you say than to go argue and deny. He said yes. But that day will come too I am sure.
So all in all a very strange session. Not particulary tramatic or upsetting. More of a sesson of building trust and feeling more comfortable with him.
I just wish I got to see him more than once next week, but that will be it, Wednesday only. I start to think it's five days to next Wednesday, and then I start to feel bad, and I just have to stop and focus on something else like getting some things done for work. Sorry this got so long, but it is still fresh in my head--got home at around 10:00 a.m. after stopping at the chiropractor's on the way home. This p.m. I go for my eye doctor appointment.
Thanks so much for asking. That feels weird to me too; never used to think anyone even cared.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by Honore on September 7, 2007, at 14:47:59
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » Wittgenstein, posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 10:41:37
That sounds like one of those appointments where you feel one uncomfortable thing after another-- but you handle them-- and so it seems like you're walking that fine line between working through and falling into the old despair-- and you wonder at yourself a little.
Sometimes I feel like one of those primitive animations they used to have, where a face would go back and forth from frowning to smiling, as you moved it in the light-- sometimes I feel as if I'm rickocheting between being upset and realizing that I don't have to be upset, that I can work with a feeling or thought or memory. And then the bad feelings, or pain or whatever it is, comes back-- and I have to remember yet again that I don't have to be captured by it-- so it's a palpable victory. Not easy, but something you can really know.
It must have felt like such an odd coincidence, too-- his mentioning a patient-- after TherapyGirl's experience-- That's such a close resonance-- after the discussion here. Even if the situation is different-- you must have felt so strange..-- as well as that he was saying that he had seen your work-- which feels private and something you should have the right to control access to. It's such a doubling of that sense of spheres not being as separate as you'd like.
Still, today's appointment was so much much better than you imagined. Each time you handle things, your ability to do it and your connection to your T, gets stronger. I feel that about myself-- even if at times I lose hope, like today--and I know it must be happening for you.
Thanks also very much for the good thoughts about me-- although I'm not sure I deserve them.
Honore
Posted by JoniS on September 7, 2007, at 15:47:10
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » Wittgenstein, posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 10:41:37
Hey RealMe
Good Job! Sounds like you went in with some strong sense of yourself. You sat claoser to him, you told him abouth the "come out and play with me" trigger. You worked on some very serious stuff - that's moving forward :-)
I know what you mean about only seeing him once a week. That is my situation. And sometimes it's every 2 weeks or so. Yuk.
I hope the eye appointment went (goes) well.
Take Care
Joni
Posted by arora on September 7, 2007, at 17:22:31
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » Wittgenstein, posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 10:41:37
Wow, what an amazing T it sounds like you have!
It must be good to have one who says things and gives some kind of guidance... I think that must be quite helpful.
The T I went to briefly didn't do anything like that- she'd walk into the room and sit down and stare into space until I started talking- I usually just waffled wondering what the h*ll was I supposed to do... she rarely said much at all. I found the whole thing very boring, and it put me off therapy to be honest.Hearing about how other people have sessions where their T actually helps them to have insights does give me the incentive to give it another go.
Hope your eye appointment went well, too.
arora
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 17:54:28
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » RealMe, posted by Honore on September 7, 2007, at 14:47:59
Of course you deserve good thoughts from where I sit, and I wonder what happened to day that you feel it was not a good day. Still nightmare??? What happened? I care and so do others.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 18:01:23
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » RealMe, posted by JoniS on September 7, 2007, at 15:47:10
Yuk I would not like once every two weeks. Normally I see my T twice per week. He has mentioned three times per week, but right now I feel twice per week is what I can handle without it totally messing up my work life. Next week is one of those weeks where we can meet only once due to my schedule and Rosh Hashanah.
I am already feeling like I want to cry if I think about it as I felt a lot closer to him today. Still a little uncomfortable about his reading my report and letting me go on and on about how I write my reports and after he said he does not like the way most psychologists write reports in that they don't tie everything thing together and don't want to give an opinion. So there I am going on and on about what I do with developing hypothesess from all the data and where do the same thing come up over and over from various sources, etc. Then is when he finally said, "I know; I read one of your reports." I am kind of upset he let me go on and on like I did, but I undferstand too. He is still trying to get to know me, and it is not often I say anything postive about myself or my work. So, I guess he wanted to hear that too.
Is there some reason why you end up with only once every two weeks?? Especially if once a week is the norm for you.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 18:07:11
In reply to Re: RealMe - how did it go today? 'slight trigger' » RealMe, posted by arora on September 7, 2007, at 17:22:31
Well my therapist is more active now mainly because he is helping me to stay contained while I go through the emotional stuff related to csa. We have been meeting for 4 months now, and he let me know today it won't always be that way, that he will be less active later.
re cataracts. Much worse. We decided on an eyeglass correction for now, and he expects I will be back in about six months, and at that time we will schedule surgery. Things were much worse this time, and when he showed me what it is like with my eyeglass script vs. the new script, I wondered how I have been getting around. This morning driving to therapy was rather scary when it was still dark and started to pour rain. Scared the hell out of me. I could only go 40 mph in a 55 mph zone. I stayed in the right lane and felt like some old 80 year-old geezer who I get frustrated with that they go so slow. Thanks for asking.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 19:54:49
In reply to RealMe - how did it go today?, posted by Wittgenstein on September 7, 2007, at 7:38:17
I am curious as to what happened when you decided you did not want to be lying down anymore. Did T say anything about it. I sure so. Or I would guess so. If I tried it, in some ways I feel like there would be no going back. I am actually getting comfortable sitting closer, and I wonder what it would be like to move even closer to him. I better wait until I get my new glasses and can see better. LOL.
RealMe (Oz)
Posted by Wittgenstein on September 8, 2007, at 5:29:49
In reply to Re: How is your therapy?? » Wittgenstein, posted by RealMe on September 7, 2007, at 19:54:49
Thanks for asking RealMe. I only tried lying down twice. A few weeks ago I bought a book co-written by my T and one of his former patients. It was an account of the experience of therapy from the side of the analyst and the analysand. The book isn't published in English. Anyway, the client had asked my therapist many questions that I had had on my mind but hadn't dared to ask. It was really helpful in a way for me to pluck up the courage to ask things that I'd been holding back. One question was about using the couch instead of sitting.
Anyway, the first time I tried the couch it was a really sunny day and there is a skylight just above and the light was too bright. I have glaucoma and various other eye problems so I can't tolerate too much light. After about 10 minutes I got up and sat back down in the chair and he moved back to his normal position (he had been sitting at the head of the couch). I'm not sure whether he thought it was just about the light but it honestly was (incidentally, I was born with cataracts - I hope the new glasses help in the mean time before you have yours removed). I commented that I would bring my sunglasses to the next appointment and try the couch again.
So the next time I tried the couch again but I felt I wasted the session. To be honest there were things I wanted to talk about but couldn't - and maybe lying down served as an extra distraction - the appointment was also in the afternoon rather than the morning and I felt exhausted. I could have just fallen asleep lying there! I felt really sad afterwards - missed him terribly - and while lying there, although he was very close by, I missed being able to glance over at him for reassurance (even though I mostly stare at the ground or have my eyes closed!). Afterwards I sent him a mail explaining the things I'd been holding back on and also wrote of my experiences with the couch and he said I was welcome to try it again if I wanted but either way, sitting or lying, was fine.
I think it's great you have built the trust to move a little closer to your T. It's interesting how intense your last session ended up being - you were so brave and open - I wish I could be that way more often with my T. I would find the dilemma of where to sit (chair, or couch and which end of the couch) a real problem - I'm glad I just have one chair to sit in, and perhaps at some point I will try the couch again but right now I still need to have his face in view - I suppose something to do with my fear that he thinks I'm a liar.
I've been trying to work through some of my feelings toward my mother and the years of abuse - it's brought up a lot of pain the last weeks - I have also felt angry for the first time - my T's done well at reassuring me when I repeatedly worry that he doesn't believe me or finds me ridiculous, pathetic or not worthy - I doubt myself - it's such a separate part of me and the way it was (and still is as my parents are still in my life) all denied and kept hidden leaves me sometimes feeling like it's all in my imagination. I easily feel overwhelmed, tending to distance myself from how I felt as a child and even very recent events - of course with therapy we have to face our early traumas in full colour - and of those of us with the abusers still in our lives and still essentially 'the same', how to cope with this.
I see my T on a Tuesday and Friday, which suits me well - it must feel like ages waiting from Friday to Wednesday. I'm sorry you're hurting so much and hopefully you can retain the connection through next week with one meeting instead of two. I think if I could afford to meet 3 times a week I would ask for it although therapy makes me exhausted and tends to affect that whole day. Actually I feel exhausted most of the time anyway - I finally arranged an appointment with a psychiatrist (I had seen someone back in the UK but that was months ago) so that I can get myself onto some different ADs - Celexa doesn't seem to touch anything :(
Sorry this was so long!!
Take care, Witti
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