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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
I know I dont offer support as much as I should, but would someone PLEASE acknowledge me? Being socially appropriate, etc is important to me and something I strive for but I just dont care anymore. I posted above about something that was really, really hard for me at the time.. and I dont know if anyone but phillipa even read it... I've been doing very, very well for 2 years but after the past week and topped off today, I'm on the fast track to finding myself back inpatient... PLEASE PLEASE someone tell me I'm not invisible. If you dont like me, fine.. fine. Just please..
Yes, I'm this desperate.
Posted by twinleaf on June 16, 2009, at 18:30:00
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
Hello! I'm so sorry that happened; the number of posts per day is down quite a lot on "Psychology", so I only read it once a week or so now. I was just getting caught up on it for the past week, and saw your post about your *new* aunt. How wonderful that your meeting with her went so well! If your relationship with her gradually grows stronger, it will make a whole new, healthier family dynamic.
Was it the lack or response from here or your therapist not calling back that got you spiralling down- or both? I hope it's much better now.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 18:35:17
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
Hi yellowbird!!!!!
You are not invisible, but I understand the feeling. Just posted a bit to your post, but I'm afraid I'm not too together right now. Big struggle day for me, myself.I'll be checking in later though and would love to hear the story. Really.
FMD
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 18:45:37
In reply to Re: please? hello?, posted by twinleaf on June 16, 2009, at 18:30:00
The meeting was okay. Saying it went well is probably an overstatement, but it was fine. It was really for her benefit. Her husband died a few weeks ago and shes trying to understand things to help with her grieving. But addressing these family issues head on like this has shaken me up for the past week.
Why the crash? It was both.. T not calling, stuff here, and the family stuff getting stirred up. I'm invisible everywhere I turn. I saw T today before the meeting, and it went okay. Talked about having empathy for myself etc... I dont agree completely with that she said but I see her point intellectually. I crumbled after meeting with aunt... I realized I *am* my mother. I am. And I HATE that. Of all the things I never wanted to be, that's it.. and I;m just as bad as she is. I called T, who called me back... I raised the possibility of a certain dx for my mother that my aunt and I had discussed.. and T threw it back at me, what would it feel like if I found that I have qualities of that dx too? The dx is Aspergers... and of all the things I know I'm bad at and struggle with, the one thing I feel confident of is my ability to read other peoples emotions and be socially appropriate, even when I feel my worst. Yeah, that isnt always true here on babble, i admit that. but in real life I am. My aunt even said today that the reason she wanted to talk to me about everything is because I'm "just so stable". Hah! My T already throws around the borderline personality disorder business.. she has mostly stopped since it stops my talking dead whenever she brings it up. Many drs have disagreed with that dx for me, and shes the only one who "sees" it. That dx HURTS! And on the phone today she also reminded me of how I'm not doing a lot of the things I could do to be less like my mother and grow beyond that. She said it in a nice way that was probably as sensitive as possible, but dang. She tried to tell me that I'm worth having some empathy for etc but that got run over with the other stuff. I dont DESERVE to be alive at this point. I suck as a person and I've screwed up badly. Whenever I think I'm doing okay at something, I'm wrong. Its been 2 years or more since I felt actively suicidal or in serious crisis but I think I've found it again!
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 18:46:09
In reply to Re: please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 18:45:37
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 18:57:51
In reply to Re: please? hello?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 18:35:17
Thanks FMD. I'm sorry youre struggling too... I certainly dont expect everyone to respond, particularly if you're not doing well yourself. We've all definitely been there...
In response to your post on the thread above, T called me back finally on Fri afternoon. I was in the store and missed her call.. she said she'd be busy most of the rest of the day but try calling her back.. tried 4-5 times but nothing. And was out of town over the weekend so nothing. I saw her today before meeting with my aunt. It was okay.. good but didnt shake me up badly or anything. I called her tonight and she called back.. I posted about that in resposne to twinleaf in this thread...
I love my T. I really do. I first began seeing her when I was 18yo.. seen her on and off for years. Never before have I felt so badly after seeing/talking to her sometimes. I dont know if it's that shes right and I dont want to face the things I;m hearing, or if shes just not on her game like she used to be... but shes always been so good, I have to guess it's my issue. She has always been my safety net in my mind, even when I was with other Ts... "If I need to, I'll make the longer drive and switch back to (current T)". I finally did and now.. I dont know. I need nice T back. I've discussed this with her, but she feels my defensive reaction to the dx stuff is mostly just that.. defensive and resistance. I dont know who is right.
I did see my aunt today. No big information gained.. except to learn that several other family members apparently behave in the same confusing, disconnected way my mother does. Aunt suggested my mother could have aspergers and I had never thought of that before.. but it makes very good sense. I told T who agreed it makes sense, but then flipped it on me and asked what it would be like to hear I may have qualities of that. What the hell. I rambled about that point above so I wont do it again.
Thanks for posting, especially when you're not doing well. What's going on with you? If you'd like to talk as well, I'm definitely here, even though I'm not in the greatest mind either.
Posted by gobbledygook on June 16, 2009, at 19:17:56
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
Hi Yellowbird01,
I don't visit the psychology board much as it's been slow, but I have noticed you at the social board.
And I really like and agree with the advice you gave...I really thought that as I was reading your posts
on social. I'm sorry you've been feeling invisible. Like FMD, I, too have been going through some difficulties
so I haven't been able to involve myself here as much. But I will read your story now, and check back
later to see how you're doing.I hear you, and I do care, (((Yellowbird01))).
Ava
Posted by fayeroe on June 16, 2009, at 19:28:56
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
yellowbird, i rarely come to the psychology board. but i am here today. you are NOT invisible.
sometimes we get stuck in ruts of posting and since we're starring in our own movie, we get very distracted and miss what others are saying about their needs.
i apologize that you have felt ignored. i will spend more time here....pat
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 20:21:20
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
Hey Yellowbird,
First of all, thanks for your post back on my post. ;-) I have to think we help ourselves as well as help others, when we help others. Know what I mean?I'm not sure I'm in the best person to have a thought about your therapist's jump to diagnose you - or even mention something like that on the phone. I don't know all of the history between you - sounds like it has been very good. But why the push to come up with something like this? (BTW, I know nothing of any of the diagnosis's out there - I totally avoid it.)
This may be just me reacting with my own stuff, OK? But it feels like when she is turning these things around on you and asking you what you think about your dx and pushing you to accept one of these - seems like she is trying to will you intellectually to change. Especially feels that way cause it's over the phone. How can she be there to give you all of the support you need when considering such things over the phone? Feel free to defend. I might be being too critical cause of my state. Just seems like these are big things that Of Course are going to bring up emotions, etc. that the phone cannot support.
I guess the other thing is that you aren't your mother. I mean, I know you know that, but really this is one of the things that I am getting for myself - I may have internalized similar behaviors (some behaviors) as my parents, but I am different and have a lot more choices. Or will, eventually - when the therapy does its thing. ;-)
Ah, I just feel like this is useless right now. But just know that I came right home and to the computer to see how you were.
Hang in there.
FMD
Posted by Deneb on June 16, 2009, at 20:27:29
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
(((((((((((yellowbird)))))))))) I will look for your post. Sorry you feel unheard and invisible. You sound like you are hurting.
I hope you feel better soon.
Posted by SLS on June 16, 2009, at 20:31:55
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
I have no excuse for not reading your recent post. I'm just glad that you reached out here to check in with people. I hope it has become obvious to you that people care about you and that you are really not invisible. You are very likable. Well, I guess I should speak for myself only. I like you. :-)
- Scott
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:34:45
In reply to Re: please? hello?..... » yellowbird01, posted by gobbledygook on June 16, 2009, at 19:17:56
Thank you Ava. I'm sorry to hear youre struggling too... I hope no one feels like I expect them to respond, esp if theyre having a hard time themselves... I know how that goes. I appreciate you posting though.. hope to see you around the psych board more often.
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:37:33
In reply to Re: please? hello? » yellowbird01, posted by fayeroe on June 16, 2009, at 19:28:56
Pat, thank you. It really means a lot to me that everyone has posted now, even if just to say they hear me... it really does. As you said, we're all starring in our own movie, and that includes me.. I know I'm not the center of anyone's universe and we all have our own stuff going on. But thank you for commenting.
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:39:11
In reply to Re: please? hello? » yellowbird01, posted by Deneb on June 16, 2009, at 20:27:29
Thanks Deneb. :) Good to see you on the psych board.. dont see you over here much. (((Deneb)))
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:41:11
In reply to Re: please? hello? » yellowbird01, posted by SLS on June 16, 2009, at 20:31:55
No "excuse" necessary... my feeling ignored isnt directed at anyone here in particular. I definitely dont expect everyone who posts on these boards to read what I (or anyone) writes. I was scared to post again but I'm glad I did.. everyones responses have been nice to hear and I do feel better about what was bothering me here. Thank you for posting. I like you too! :)
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: please? hello?, posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 20:21:20
Yes FMD, my history with my T has been very good in a lot of ways. A few years ago, last time I saw her regularly, we got pretty close and she made it clear that I was "special" to her... boundaries got a little blurry.. but only in terms of her disclosing more than she regularly does, and expressing caring more openly. Nothing sexual, abusive, etc in ANY way. She reeled that back in and things have been "normal" since.
A few months ago, I fought hard against the borderline dx from her. I can admit I may have qualified a few years ago, but not now. I felt like she wasnt giving me a chance to be anyone different from who I was a few years ago. She finally stopped saying it, although I'm not convinced she doesnt still believe it. She felt like my resistance to it, and feeling like it's a negative label, is inaccurate and that I'm thinking about it wrong. Whatever.
Just tonight, I mentioned aspergers in relation to my mother. I dont know if my mother has it or not, but it's a new idea that came up while takling with my aunt, and it certainly fits. I really cant believe I'd never thought of it before. I mentioned it to my T and she agreed, but within 5 minutes, turned it and asked how it'd feel if a doctor or someone said I have qualities of it. She KNOWS how much I hate diagnoses, and how much they hurt for me. I dont know why shed say that. I sent her an email an hour ago and asked her to clarify with a yes/no that I'd heard her correctly. Hopefully she will.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "trying to will me intellectually to change". Do you mean that she may be trying to motivate me into it? Could be. I dont know. I really dont understand why she does it. But it HURTS. There is very little right now that I feel confident of being good at.. and having Aspergers would, by definition, mean that I'm really not good at all at the things I think I'm good at. I understand that therapy is all about facing hard issues, and sometimes that is really painful. I get that. But I feel like everything is being stripped away from me sometimes and each time it happens, I'm scared to trust her.. scared to tell her any more information for fear it'll knock me even lower.
I love my T, I really do. She can be great a lot of the time. But I cant do it this way. I sent an email to my old T to ask her if i can meet with her to run this by her. I dont know if she'll go for it, but I need another opinion from someone who really knows me. I dont feel "special" to my T, like I used to be, anymore at all. In fact, I feel sort of the opposite sometimes. I feel unimportant and like she isnt seeing me or hearing me. It hurts.
---
I know you werent expecting a long reply like this.. but after my crazy rambling, hopefully it helps people understand what I was trying to say before.
---
I really, really appreciate you and everyone responding to me tonight... Thank you.
Posted by twinleaf on June 16, 2009, at 22:20:47
In reply to Re: please? hello? » FindingMyDesire, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:59:47
I think almost all therapists try to avoid pigeonholing their patients/clients. It sounds like you are getting hit over the head with TWO possible diagnoses- BPD and Asperger's. Why would she do this after all this time? It would hurt anybody.
You seem very empathic, and it seems easy for you to understand other people's feelings in quite a complex manner. This would rule out Aspergers in my mind.
As for BPD, as you know, it's often thought of now as a disorder of emotional regulation. All of us here probably have it at least a little. But it's very treatable now, and even gets better by itself as people get older. But hearing that diagnosis IS very painful.
I wonder whether your t is presently not able to meet your needs in the way you need and deserve. You did mention contacting another t, so perhaps you are having this same thought.
Posted by psychmom on June 17, 2009, at 0:05:37
In reply to all these diagnoses?, posted by twinleaf on June 16, 2009, at 22:20:47
BPD can be the result of learning disorders. When a child doesn't fit in with his/or peers that can cause trauma in the result to BPD.
I know personally. I am waiting for a an indepth eval after many years of not knowing what the heck is wrong with me...
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 17, 2009, at 7:16:41
In reply to Re: all these diagnoses?, posted by psychmom on June 17, 2009, at 0:05:37
Sweetie: Try not to be so HARD on yourself; allow yourself to be human!
I always said I wanted to be nothing like my mother, and I did that.
You have a choice in who you want to be. I don't like labels, i think when you hear yourself labeled it is damaging (whether it is true or not).
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 9:15:21
In reply to Re: please? hello? » FindingMyDesire, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 20:59:47
It's unusual that I respond based on who the poster is. The truth is that I've little experience with extended family, and couldn't think of anything to say. I'm not so great with my immediate family of origin either.
I do have some experience of worrying about being like my mother. Truth be told I am like her in some ways. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm different than her in some very fundamental ways.
Perhaps your therapist was trying to make a point about your mother, not about you. I'm hoping she can clarify that for you.
Posted by Poet on June 17, 2009, at 12:19:19
In reply to please? hello?, posted by yellowbird01 on June 16, 2009, at 17:50:54
Hi Yellowbird,
You're not invisible, it's me who is trying to be and isolating. Damn depression.
I do care and when my head is less messed up will read your posts, I promise.
Poet
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 12:37:58
In reply to Re: please? hello? » yellowbird01, posted by Poet on June 17, 2009, at 12:19:19
Yellowbird so glad others saw your post. Love Phillipa
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 17, 2009, at 20:12:02
In reply to all these diagnoses?, posted by twinleaf on June 16, 2009, at 22:20:47
I've tried to make the point that diagnoses can be hurtful, but I feel like she just looks at my argument as another thing that is irrational. I've tried to argue that the mental health community has a big stigma against BPD, and she strongly disagreed with me. I'm sorry, but I work in the field myself, and she's dead wrong if she really believes there's not a big stigma against BPD.
I dont deny that I have problems. I dont deny that a few years ago, I probably did qualify for BPD. However, I've grown a huge amount in the past few years. If I do something that has a borderline (aspergers, etc) quality to it, and she wants to discuss why my thought/behavior/etc isnt healthy.. fine. Great. That's what I want from therapy. I've never argued that everything I do is perfectly healthy! If I thought that, I wouldnt be in therapy. I can be unstable, isolate myself, overly sensitive, and a whole host of other things sometimes. But I absolutely disagree that I'm any of those things so regularly and intensely that it qualifies for a serious diagnosis like a personality disorder. I used to be, yes, but I've grown. And thus far, she hasnt been able to explain to me WHY it is that I'm so much worse off than I think I am. It seems like she is making everything pathological... even things that are very much how ANY normal person might react or feel. Why is it that my aversion to being labeled is somehow pathological and needs to be "worked on"? Cant it just be an acceptable response? I dont even so much care what she thinks in her head, but I'm paying her, and it's my therapy... and I need this particular thing to be respected. I dont know why she insists on all the label dropping. I really dont.
I know what she'll say next week. She'll say that she didnt say or even suggest that I have aspergers, she only asked how it would feel if she suggested I did. To me, the difference is minor. She'll act like I've lost my mind for being hurt. She'll argue that this is all transference. Sure, maybe some of it is, but she wont allow the idea that even a small piece of it is anything real or justified.
Thank you for the compliments twinleaf. Being able to perceive and understand other's feelings, and the ability to behave appropriately no matter how badly I feel, is one thing I really value in myself. It's one of the few things I feel fairly sure I'm good at. I work in a job where my entire job is to speak to people about very personal topics and guage their needs, their stability, whether or not theyre being honest with me... if I truly has a dx like aspergers, could I really succeed at this job? Maybe, but I dont think so.
My T has said before that we can get through anything. I want to believe that, but this feels like a brick wall, and I dont think it's healthy for me. I just dont know. I used to know very strongly that I was a "special client" to her. She told me we had a special connection, and we did. Now, since I started with her again in Jan, not only do I not feel special to her, I dont feel much of any caring or connection at all. What happened? It feels like the boundaries have been drawn up so tight that I cant even reach her anymore. Every time I start to trust her, and open up, within a few weeks whatever I got really honest about comes back to bite me or gets twisted into something I didnt mean at all. At that point, convincing her otherwise is next to impossible.
I havent heard back from my old T yet, but I'm hoping shell call soon and be willing to see me to discuss this and decide if/how I should continue. My current T has helped me in so many ways over many years. I cant imagine just throwing her away for nothing. But this is really affecting me, and not in a good way.
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 17, 2009, at 20:14:25
In reply to Re: please? hello?, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 12:37:58
Also, I wanted to thank all of you for responding to me so kindly in this post so far. I know some of you are struggling a lot right now too, and it means a lot of me. I hope no one feels like my hurt at feeling ignored meant that they personally should be responding... I certainly dont expect every single person to respond to my (or anyones!) posts. Thank you everyone!
Posted by yellowbird01 on June 18, 2009, at 10:14:58
In reply to Re: please? hello? - all, posted by yellowbird01 on June 17, 2009, at 20:14:25
I contacted my old T, who I quit with around Dec, to see if she'd let me come see her once to talk about the concerns I have with current T. She called me back this morning and said she'd thought a lot about it but felt like it would be a conflict and isnt something she can do right now. It's not what I wanted to hear, but I understand.
I called another therapist in the area who is the director of the hosptial day program I was in awhile back. He doesnt seen many (if any) regular outpatient clients but he's very, very good. He'll be honest with me, and if I'm wrong I think he'll say so, but he'll be very sensitive about it either way. He agreed to see me once to talk about this. I made an appt with him for the earliest he had which is next Friday. I think that's good news.
This is the end of the thread.
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