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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:02
ive posted something similar to this in the past and its coming up again.
ive been working with an analyst for 17 mnths 3x per week. i like her, she seems to listen and try to help me as best she can.
i was a pot addict for years. i got clean for 18 months. i went to her because i wanted to make better decisions around self care (go to the gym, eat better, lose weight, stay off pot).
I became so frustrated with the process of analysis, i always complained to her that it wasnt working, she would say it was i just didnt want to believe it. i eventually picked up pot again. and now i use it daily and cannot stop. i still go there 3x per week saying help help im drowning and she talks to me about whats going on and what feelings i am medicating (mostly anxiety due to career change, family drama/trauma, and feeling like i am a failure).
i keep telling her that it seems analysis is too passive and i need someone else and i want to go to the CBT therapist who can focus on the pot use and help me get over it. she tells me she thinks i should stay. i start to lose trust in her because she is telling me to stay, im saying its not working, harming myself, cant stop and go to her for help and it doesnt help, the behavior continues.
so i want to stop the pot and focus on improving my life and accepting my life. however, it seems that with her, its not working.
i told her, it could be, given that im male, she is female and 50 and my mom is 50 that i could be having trouble with her because i project my mom into her. she asked why i thought that and i said i did it to many older women. so as i became aware of this, all i wanted to do was smoke more pot...instead of trying to understand it instead of continuing to work with her.
so maybe i need a make therapist? maybe i need only CBT? maybe i need to stay with her and keep trying?
Posted by antigua3 on July 1, 2009, at 19:07:01
In reply to analyst seems to not be working, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:02
Well, given how CBT has helped me with eliminating some self-destructive behaviors, I certainly couldn't advocate against it.
But there's another option that jumps out at me. You could quit pot and work with your analyst on why you feel like you have to smoke pot when you're dealing with someone who reminds you so much of your mother. Work on all the feelings that come forth that make you want to smoke. I think this would be a valuable exercise because it seems that you may think you're sabotaging your treatment by smoking pot.
But, you'll hear from many people that you can't deal with the underlying issues if you are dealing with substance issues. Some Ts think the substance has to go first, so maybe if you think you can't find a way to quit with your current analyst, then maybe you should try other modes. But it also has a sense, to me only, because I'm a master at this, of running because maybe things are tough. But then again, if you really feel you've given this your best shot, maybe you should go. Can you pinpoint when/why you started smoking pot again? Sometimes finding the trigger can help get things moving again.
I wasn't much help, was I? What does your analyst think about CBT?
antigua
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2009, at 19:09:33
In reply to analyst seems to not be working, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:02
Have you had a consultation?
My first thought would be that if you aren't finding this form of therapy helpful for you then it seems only prudent to look for another form of therapy and another therapist.
But if you have any doubt, a consultant can provide a more objective ear than your analyst might be able to do in this situation, since she may be too close to the situation to judge her effectiveness.
Posted by garnet71 on July 1, 2009, at 20:11:46
In reply to analyst seems to not be working, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:02
Can you take a vacation from her and try someone else, perhaps a male?
I"m only new to analysis, but I had the opposite reaction as you-too intense, as opposed to too passive as in your case. There has to be a middle ground?
I think matching and skill/experience (with people w/similair issues as you) makes a difference. Maybe she's not a good match for you?
If you think you're underlying cravings are from repressed childhood emotions, analysis might be best. It seems you are feeling they are from self esteem issues--but what are the circumstances and emotions behind the low self-esteem--did she help you find and search through those emotions yet, reveal the core of your feelings of inadequacies/self-defeating behavior/wish to self harm?
The thing with analysts, though, is that you *never* know whether they are being straight up or saying things to provoke a reaction. Maybe she is saying she wants you to continue with her, to assess your inner argument patterns; to get at your underlying drives...
For example - maybe in terms of 'success' and 'failure' in giving in to your cravings, parellel to the success and failure of the therapy itself?
Posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 20:26:00
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working » deerock, posted by garnet71 on July 1, 2009, at 20:11:46
For example - maybe in terms of 'success' and 'failure' in giving in to your cravings, parellel to the success and failure of the therapy itself?
Can you explain what you mean by that?
thanks for replying to me. i definitely agree with you about fit. we are quite different. im an immigrant and she is, well, she wont tell me anything...so i dont know. all i know is what i can guess and i have never honed in on trying to get her to tell me more about herself. im sure that has lots to do with wanting to leave as well. some resentment over her gaurding personal information about herself. its weird. analysis is all a game. once i asked if she had kids and she said if you really want to know we can negotiate that. negotiate? maybe being an immigrant that word has different meaning for me.
anyhow, thanks and have a nice day.
Posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 20:27:39
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working, posted by antigua3 on July 1, 2009, at 19:07:01
youre a master at this? how come? lots of experience? i feel like im becoming one. never wanted to be that. maybe it will be nice. who knows.
i think youre right, i am bolting. but i also think that it may get me something better. i guess thats a reason to stay. shouldnt buy into that voice.
Posted by garnet71 on July 1, 2009, at 20:44:03
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working » garnet71, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 20:26:00
For example - maybe in terms of 'success' and 'failure' in giving in to your cravings, parellel to the success and failure of the therapy itself?
Can you explain what you mean by that?
------------------------
Hmm. I don't know how to explain it more concretely as I mostly sense it in the abstract.
Example: what thought patterns are emerging in your "disagreeing with yourself".
In terms of the THERAPY failure or success:
- I'm such a failure so no one can possibly help me, or I should just quit this therapy/give up
- I won't allow someone to help me; I don't deserve it
- She can't help me because she is not a good therapist
--------------------------------Similar/parallel to your thoughts/emotions, how you manifest SELF-HARMING behavior failure or success (such as not giving in to drug use):
- I'm such a failure..so I might as well abuse myself/use drugs; give up
- I won't allow someone to help me (so I can't stop using drugs); I'm not good enough to be helped
- She can't help me (if I had a better therapist I could stop using drugs).Maybe she's prompting you to uncover, or discover, via insight your underlying personality emotional drives and impulses, by assessing how you argue with yourself - in terms of linking the therapy decision/arguement with how you argue with yourself about using drugs/harming yourself?
Sorry if this wasn't helpful, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 20:56:53
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working » deerock, posted by garnet71 on July 1, 2009, at 20:44:03
i understand where you going with this and i think where youre coming from.
maybe if i stick it out with her some more information will arise and hopefully that will propel me to make a different choice.
i will see how my wanting to leave her parallels with my wanting to harm myself and maybe see that this is happening in a way i did not understand and now i can change the behavior.
ill stick with her it that is whats happening.
but im telling her that whats happening is new information is not causing new behaviors. ive learned a lot from working with her in the last several months. i still seem to make the same poor choices...hence the idea that the behavior itself needs to be changed.
but heck, i also dont know. im thinking out loud here just like you.
have a nice day/night.
Posted by obsidian on July 1, 2009, at 21:03:36
In reply to analyst seems to not be working, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:02
I might not have anything helpful to say at this point, but I am curious about some things.
I also have a tendency to start smoking pot and then to smoke it a lot, daily
I found that when I was smoking a lot if it I was quite conscious of the fact that I was kind of out of it, not literally high in the sessions, but disconnected, in my own little world. If you're going with the theory that she in some way elicits feelings your mother did, then I'd wonder is there anything significant about feeling disconnected and/or needing to disconnect from your mother. I'm just throwing it out there, could mean nothing.
Apart from analyzing, and speaking very practically, it's hard to work on much when you get in that very comfortable space of smoking a lot. I know it can offer a lot of relief from anxiety.
I felt frustrated with my T when I was smoking a lot, felt like something was wrong, but not committed to do anything about it on my own. In true T fashion he communicated that the smoking or not smoking remained my decision.
I'm curious about ways CBT might be helpful with this issue. I hope you keep posting.
-sid
Posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 21:39:49
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working » deerock, posted by obsidian on July 1, 2009, at 21:03:36
thanks sid. how did you get your smoking under control? or have you yet?
and yes, i am aware of how harmful it is and how ineffective therapy can be when i am in that little space. T calls it the velvet prison. its a good metaphor.
i dont know about the mother thing. but yes, i do need to disconnect with her, often.
i am in a state where i am very apathetic and any emotion elicited, ie: are you smoking pot and are you disconnecting from me like i was your mother, i would say this is annoying, this feeling, i need to get high. it lowers your ability to tolerate any discomfort. especially when youre doing it daily.
Posted by obsidian on July 1, 2009, at 23:43:22
In reply to Re: analyst seems to not be working » obsidian, posted by deerock on July 1, 2009, at 21:39:49
> thanks sid. how did you get your smoking under control? or have you yet?
distraction, lack of availability, time, some combination of those things
I smoked for three days a couple of weeks ago then stopped again. Sometimes it has only been my lack of willingness to "use" friends as a connection that has kept me from getting it. Nice to know I've got some standards ;-). I just straight out took my friends little stash this last time.
but, back to the stopping thing:
I started running, it fills my time at the end of day when I'd otherwise smoke.
I had quite a bit of anxiety and agitation when I stopped, so the running helped with that.
Also, not that consequences necessarily stopped me, but I was losing time at work, going in late, missing days.
My T did this cool and detached thing, got me concerned that he would end therapy with me, I don't know if he was going to or not, but I felt responsible to work toward something in therapy, not sure what, but I felt the need to at least be "present".
> and yes, i am aware of how harmful it is and how ineffective therapy can be when i am in that little space. T calls it the velvet prison. its a good metaphor.yeah, I like that place too much
> i dont know about the mother thing. but yes, i do need to disconnect with her, often.
>
> i am in a state where i am very apathetic and any emotion elicited, ie: are you smoking pot and are you disconnecting from me like i was your mother, i would say this is annoying, this feeling, i need to get high. it lowers your ability to tolerate any discomfort. especially when youre doing it daily.tolerating discomfort...yeah, that's a key idea
I'm not always willing.
This is the end of the thread.
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