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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg A. on March 13, 2001, at 10:17:46
Karen - just curious about your low dose Remeron trial. Are things still working for you? Let me know.
Greg A.
Posted by karenR on March 14, 2001, at 12:47:00
In reply to karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by Greg A. on March 13, 2001, at 10:17:46
> Karen - just curious about your low dose Remeron trial. Are things still working for you? Let me know.
>
> Greg A.Hi Greg,
Thanks for the concern. I am feeling pretty well. I have good days
and bad days. I am hesitant to go up since i seem to be ok most of the time.
I *swear* my couch has chemicals in it that cause my anxiety! I was just on
vacation the last few days and felt really good the whole trip. Within
5 minutes of being home (on the couch) i feel my chest start to tighten up.
I think it's an unfortunate bad association with being home and not
having my thoughts occupied like they are when I'm out. I am doing CBT
and hope to get rid of the bad association. I started therapy because of insomnia
and CBT seemed to help my bad assoc. with getting into bed and having obessive
thoughts about my day/life/etc.I wanted to ask you about your anxiety. How do you think it's a biochemical issue
that causes the problem if you didn't have a problem until recently? This is something
that bothers me terribly. I still worry that going on SSRIs *caused* my anxiety problems.
Life was going along just fine (ok, I had stress and anxiety, but no debilitating!)
until a few years ago. I went on zoloft for 2 years. Decided it was time to come off
and a few months later, the tightness in my chest develops and NEVER goes away! :(
I just don't understand how that can start out of nowhere. Someone had posted recently
about only having physical stress and no "mental", that's how I feel now. Sigh....It's been a real comfort to know someone out there is experiencing what I am. It's funny
that your story is so similar to mine. even to the point of not wanting ot be on meds. Maybe
I'll change my tune after some time, but I still want to try to overcome this and get off
meds right now.Good to hear from you,
Karen
Posted by Greg A. on March 14, 2001, at 18:20:48
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing? » Greg A., posted by karenR on March 14, 2001, at 12:47:00
Hey Karen – glad you posted back. I can guarantee there’s more than one person out here who is experiencing what you are or something similar. (or something much worse) You raise a lot of questions that I think about with respect to my own life and situation. How did this start? What makes it worse? Or better? Is there a cycle? Am I my own worst enemy? Lots of questions and few answers. Maybe that’s why it’s so nice to ‘compare notes’ every once in awhile with someone who doesn’t always need the whole explanation to understand. I know in talking to friends about depression, the ones who really care about me will say “It must be terrible.” A couple of friends who have had problems or still do will sort of complete my thoughts for me. It’s the ‘I’ve been where you are’ answer and it is kind of special.
Anyway – good to hear you were on a holiday - but get rid of the couch! (I’ll have to get rid of my office, because often the anxious feelings will start as soon as I open the door)
I’m not quite sure what I’ve explained to you about my depression / anxiety. I know in one of my posts I mentioned that the real onset of my anxiety, in the sense of it being a real problem, occurred when I was hyperthyroid. This happened many years ago and was mis-diagnosed for a considerable length of time. I was always as you put it ‘high strung’ but nothing like that. When I was treated I became hypothyroid very quickly, something which was also not diagnosed at first. I have not felt good or normal for any extended period since. Treating the anxiety by itself did little for me. I survived. When I started treatment for depression it meant that I had to admit to the disease. The treatments have all worked to some degree. But never for a long time or as well as I would like. But you know, when I compare the quality of my life now, with ten years ago, it is much better. I have a greater understanding of myself, and the medications do help. I think I mentioned before that last winter I decided – Enough Drugs!! I went to a naturopath for five months and $2500 later I was almost ready for hospitalization! I’ll take the drugs, thank you.
I know exactly what you mean about physical stress without any mental cause. At times you could put me in the most relaxing setting imaginable. Lots of money, no obligations, freedom to do whatever I wanted and I would be totally debilitated physically and mentally by anxiety. Just tell me what the cause is and I’ll change it!
By the way, for the past month or so I have had this annoying numbness and tingling in my arms and hands . . .Talk to you later.
Greg
Posted by karenR on March 15, 2001, at 9:53:04
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by Greg A. on March 14, 2001, at 18:20:48
Hi Greg,
Wow, you didn't mention a lot of your history before to me. How long were you on meds
before you decided to go to the naturopath? I'm definitely not considering that,
I'm just wondering what it took to make you go that route. The thing about
my recent breathing issues is that I was *in* therapy for depression when it started. Grrrrr!
I, like you, have a perfectly stable life, nothing to really cause me worry, but it's still there.
I had an appt with my therapist last night. He keeps referring to our process as "peeling the onion"
and getting down to the real cause of the problem. I started to get really scared and upset
thinking, what happens when we get to the bottom of this, and I find I don't like the person that
I really am supposed to be. Since I've been on the remeron (still hanging in at the 7.5mgs) I have
been less patient. I used to pride myself on my patience. My doc thinks I've been suppressing my
impatience to be the person I thought people would like better. I'm worried there are a whole
lot more suppressed things that are going to make me not be the person I'm supposed to be. I'm
always tring to please people but it's because I want to be liked.You mention the thyroid issue. I was actually tested. They thought I was hyper based on my
symptoms, but, strangely, they found I was hypo when tested. When they retested, I was normal.
I think modulating the thyroid can be tricky. Unfortunately, that wasn't the cause of my problems.As for your numbness in you arms, has it been continuously there? How long have you been on remerson?
Have you felt that way before? The first time I had the numbness, I was really worried. It
definitely had me obsessed. I actually had somewhat of a breakdown at work when it was present
for a week straight. Again, a tiny 0.25mg dose of xanax fixed it.
But, a few months later, the breathing troubles began, and nothing fixed it. The remerson has been good,
but my doc wants me to go up to 15 mgs. I still have a fear that I will keep going up and up and up and
my body will continue to keep up with the meds. I have to get over that feeling, but I"m not ready for
that now. At the end of the day, before I take my remeron, I can almost feel it
wearing off, and my arms start to get numb. That's my my doc wants me to go up.Thanks for listening,
Karen
Posted by Todd on March 15, 2001, at 10:34:31
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by karenR on March 15, 2001, at 9:53:04
Hi, Karen. Just here to tell you that onion peeling is the most rewarding thing you can do for yourself and it's OK to be afraid. I've been through a few layers and I can tell you that every time another gets peeled away I feel even more myself and more confident in myself. Like you, all I ever wanted was to be liked and admired and validated. Think of each layer of the onion as a layer of fear and a shield that keeps you from knowing who you really are - the person who is very likable and warm and confident. Peeling back another layer activates all the fear in that layer, causing you to think that you're going to find something horrible under there. It can be terrifying and painful. Stay with it - trust the process. Ride that fear and pain all the way past that layer. I am quite certain one day you will be delighted at what you find. Peace and love.
Todd
Posted by Greg A. on March 15, 2001, at 13:13:26
In reply to karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by Greg A. on March 13, 2001, at 10:17:46
Karen,
Don’t get too hung up on the details. Accept that the process you have begun will make you a better and most importantly, a happier person. I agree with Todd one hundred percent. The more layers you go through, the more likely you are to understand yourself; like yourself; and ultimately, be at peace with who you are.
I am a people pleaser as well, to a degree. I don’t like arguments either involving me, or between others. I try to make peace. There’s a lot of anger built up in me as a result and a loss of an intrinsic sense of who I am. The trick is to be able to express the anger in an acceptable way. If it builds, over years, it will spill out in some way – maybe physical ailments, or perhaps as anxiety. . . Discovering who I am is nothing magical. It means being happy with me – shortcomings and all. I can not be all things. I cannot excel at everything. If I am happy only when other people recognize me for my efforts, I will be unhappy a great deal of the time and I will continually look to others as my source of happiness. I have no control over what others think or do. I have to like ‘me’ to be happy.Your questions – and there are quite a number – suggest to me that you are looking for the magic bullet – the cure. What you are going through is a process which takes time. It also involves many different phases and experiences. Some are pleasant and many are not. But they pass. They all do. I can accept, now, a day of anxiety. I don’t search too hard for the cause because tomorrow it will be gone. I lower my goals for that day. I avoid anxiety producing situations. I ‘go for it’ when the time is right.
Go for the increased dose of Remeron. I think a therapeutic dose for depression is 30mgs and as I said I am taking 60. The meds will not cause you irreversible damage or induce conditions on their own -– at least in my opinion. As I said – the quality of my life is better now than ten years ago. I am sad that I can’t feel ‘normal’ all the time, but encouraged that I have taken some control by acknowledging the problem and trying various methods to treat it. Keep an open mind. Look for help wherever and whenever you can. It turns up in the most unlikely places. I can put up with some numbness. I can put up with some anxious days. I can’t put up with the idea that it is too painful to live another day.
Posted by karenR on March 15, 2001, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by Greg A. on March 15, 2001, at 13:13:26
> > Your questions - and there are quite a number - suggest to me that you are looking for the magic bullet - the cure. What you are going through is a process which takes time. It also involves many different phases and experiences. Some are pleasant and many are not. But they pass. They all do. I can accept, now, a day of anxiety. I don?t search too hard for the cause because tomorrow it will be gone. I lower my goals for that day. I avoid anxiety producing situations. I ?go for it? when the time is right.
Hi Greg,
I think you misinterpreted the reasons for my questions. I was actually just concerned about your experience and wanted to learn more to see if I could help. I see you are experienced enough to know where to go for the help you need. I am glad you can handle things day by day. I am learning that for myself. It's a slow and sometimes extremely unpleasant.
I have accepted that I need to be medicated for now and probably at least a year or two, but I intend to try to "reprogram" my brain. I did it for sleep, I can do it for breathing (I hope!). That darned onion sure has a lot of layers! :)-K
Posted by Greg A. on March 15, 2001, at 17:46:00
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by karenR on March 15, 2001, at 16:56:32
Karen
I think in my response I came across as being put off by your questions. I’m sorry – that’s not what I intended at all. It’s comforting or flattering to have you take an interest in what has happened to me . . . but I didn’t want to go on endlessly about things that would not likely be of help to you. But you are right. We should try to help each other. We do seem to have things in common. I hope you will let me know if I go on too much about me.
Inspired by your talk of holidays and by the fact that I have felt pretty good this week, I’m going to take some days off. If I don’t post back – that’s why.
I didn’t want to leave things on a sour note.Apologies
Greg
Posted by willow on March 15, 2001, at 21:06:50
In reply to Re: karenR - still well and breathing?, posted by karenR on March 15, 2001, at 16:56:32
*but I intend to try to "reprogram" my brain. I did it for sleep, I can do it for breathing
Karen
I hope you don't mind me adding something. I've been to a physiotherapist to get my tensed body loosened up.For the tightness in the chest: Get one of those swimming noodles and cut off about six inches, this is what you'll use. (a rolled up towel will work to start) Place it lenghtwise between your shoulder blades and lie on the floor with your arms stretched out above your head. (Your hands should be on the floor. If you need a better description I can try.) Try and hold it for 30 seconds and repeat three time. Do it a few times a day until the stiffness or breathing gets easier, you can even keep doing it afterwards.
Hope it helps!
Reaching Willow
Posted by karenR on March 16, 2001, at 9:14:07
In reply to Re: karenR - still breathing?, posted by willow on March 15, 2001, at 21:06:50
Willow,
Wow, thanks for the info. I have never heard of such a thing. Can you tell me what it's supposed to
really help? Last night was a bad night and as a result I'm feeling badly today, and don't take my remeron
until night, so, I sort of suffer until then. I'd appreciate more info on this. My doc has only previously
taught me breathing exercises (which he admits won't help with trouble breathing! < g > Next he wants to
teach me progressive relaxation). Anyway, has this worked for you?Thanks! Karen
> Karen
> I hope you don't mind me adding something. I've been to a physiotherapist to get my tensed body loosened up.
>
> For the tightness in the chest: Get one of those swimming noodles and cut off about six inches, this is what you'll use. (a rolled up towel will work to start) Place it lenghtwise between your shoulder blades and lie on the floor with your arms stretched out above your head. (Your hands should be on the floor. If you need a better description I can try.) Try and hold it for 30 seconds and repeat three time. Do it a few times a day until the stiffness or breathing gets easier, you can even keep doing it afterwards.
>
> Hope it helps!
>
> Reaching Willow
Posted by karenR on March 16, 2001, at 10:47:11
In reply to Apology required, posted by Greg A. on March 15, 2001, at 17:46:00
Greg,
I think we suffer from way too much of the same problem... :) I was worried that I was going on too much about myself and decided to take an interest in your problems so I wasn't so "self-absorbed" (my therapist calls is "self-aware" - HA!).
Not feeling too well today. Hope tomorrow is better. Starting to come around to increasing my dose. I still worry because when I started the remeron, I really felt 100% better. Why is it now that I've been on for a few weeks that I'm feeling bad again? Makes me really believe my anxiety is increasing. Then I *really* worry - what will happen if I need to go off? I'll be a wreck! So much to ponder.....Enjoy your time off,
Karen
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