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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Medusa on August 28, 2002, at 4:37:26
I realised last night - in bed at play with DH, which I presume is a terrible time to think about these things - that it's normal and okay for me to feel lonely.
I don't really have any friends. We're at odds with all of his family and with a good bit of mine.
I have an insurance company telling me I'm a lousy liar for being in pain.
I don't have a job and I really want one but I'm afraid of every part of the process.
And so it's probably a good sign that I feel lonely. I'm lonely.
I don't know why I have such issues with this. Well. My parents told me it was bad to "need friends". And that my mother should be my best friend, and if I couldn't be friends with her, I must not need friends.
Screw all that. It would be nice to be ... less isolated. DH is a really good start. I think I got him, by being such a b!+ch. He says maybe we're together because we're both loners who don't want to be alone all the time.
And it's okay to feel so bloody lonely all the time. I question what that feeling really is - sometimes the feeling would be satisfied by being able to buy posh fabrics and have them made into custom clothes and wear them to explore museums alone, or wear them to a great job even if people didn't like me there - but sometimes I really am lonely.
M
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on August 28, 2002, at 5:58:59
In reply to it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by Medusa on August 28, 2002, at 4:37:26
Told you didn't need friends? What a strange message. My mother just set a strange example, she had no friends her whole adult life that I know of. Once a college friend visited her when I was small, that's the only friend activity I ever saw her do. She didn't enjoy her relatives either, just dutifully carried out obligatory vists.
All my life I craved friends and watched helplessly as other kids made friends and sad little me didn't know how. There was this playground ritual in 1st grade, you had to find a partner and hold hands to go inside after recess, and the friendless kids ended up at the end of the line sort of pretending to pair up. There I was among the friendless kids each day. Jeez.
All my true "best friends" in life have also been freaky loners. It's intense when freaky loners pair up.
I like the clothing fantasy. Nice to be wrapped up in beautiful cloth, looking at art, content.
Posted by fiona on August 28, 2002, at 8:47:48
In reply to it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by Medusa on August 28, 2002, at 4:37:26
Your mum sounds a bit like mine. She thinks that I shouldn't be so involved with my friends (apart from the ones SHE approves of). She thinks that I shouldn't need friends if I have her! This is my mum's problem, though, not mine.
I can understand how loney you feel, it IS lonely when you are experiencing what you are. At the moment I am off work sick, have been for nearly a year now, and I feel lonely a lot of the time too. I see my friends and family when they have time, and sometimes I feel that I have to hang around and wait for them to notice me. They all have their own lives, jobs, families to take care of and sometimes I feel jealous of that.
I have been single for a year or so and I do miss having someone to come home to (or to come home to me). At least you have that in your life :)Warm thoughts to you
Posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:52:05
In reply to Re: it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by fiona on August 28, 2002, at 8:47:48
When I read some of the experiences of others
I feel like I'm reading my own story. Only
my mother did have friends and encouranged me
to have them as well. Only I was bad at it.
Now my dad gives some exclamation every time
I say I'm going out with friends. He can't
believe I have a friend. I could do without
his disbelief! Not good for my confidence.We're having new neighbors moving in next door.
In the 15+ years we've been here we've had 3
sets of neighbors. I've become friendly with
none of them. I do not know how to do it!
I don't want this time to be like the other times
but I honestly do not know what to do.My hubby makes friends in a heartbeat. He's
outgoing and confident. I'm neither and I
always think people will say, "what makes that
woman think I want to bother with *her*"!It is ok to feel lonely, but loneliness is not
a good state to be in when it never ends. I think
when we feel that way we should allow the feeling
and then do something about it before we're feeling
it 10 years from now.And forget what those moms say that don't want
you to have friends! Mine used to want me to think
of her as almost sacred---honestly! I loved her,
but knew she was human. I think they have their
own needs regarding their relationships with their
kids. I don't know what my dad's problem is :)!
But he's 81 and I don't think I'll ever know!
Posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 16:54:08
In reply to it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by Medusa on August 28, 2002, at 4:37:26
> I don't know why I have such issues with this. Well. My parents told me it was bad to "need friends". And that my mother should be my best friend, and if I couldn't be friends with her, I must not need friends.
What a most extraordinarily unhealthy thing to be told!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No darn wonder you have issues! I am really sorry that your parents told you that. Sounds like manipulation of the largest sort.
Do you think that you still believe what they told you?
hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 17:03:38
In reply to It's hard to make friends, posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:52:05
A thought about the new neighbours. Whenever there was a new neighbour in our neighbourhood, my Mom would bake some cookies, or make a cake or make a casserole & take it over. When it was time to return the dish or bowl, etc. the neighbour would end up doing a return visit.
I think a secret about making friends, or having a conversation with people one doesn't know, is to 'make it about THEM'.
In other words, instead of thinking that they wouldn't want to bother with YOU, concentrate on how nice THEY seem, or how interesting or whatever & that YOU'd like to get to know THEM better. In the case of the new neighbours, think of THEM - I suspect they'd be delighted to have their new neighbour knock at the door with a cake-plate in hand, saying something like, "Moving is so hectic, I thought I'd like to welcome you as my new neighbour by bringing you over a dessert. My name is......." etc.
If you decide to do it, let us know! If anyone would react negatively to something like that, then they aren't the type of person you'd want as a "friend" anyway.
hugs, Kath
Posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 19:05:25
In reply to it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by Medusa on August 28, 2002, at 4:37:26
Medusa, I never read your post before, but reading it, it made me think of conversations I've had with others, both young & old.
Do you know most people are lonely? Maybe to different degrees, but most feel very alone & unable to truly share their deep feelings with others. Many older people have just accepted it & go about their lives with no thought of it anymore. It's hurts too much to think of. The deeper the thinker, the more acute this loneliness they feel. Shallow people can connect easily as there isn't much there to connect. All common interests are just that - common. Their friends have similar brainless interests & needs.
But if you're a deep thinker, there's much you hold inside that few others look at in the same way. This illustration that I'm going to use may sound cheesey, but it's the best way for me to explain it.
It's like we're all gems, with different facets. Some have intricate cuts with many facets; others are like cubes - only 6 sides to them (they're the shallow thinkers & feelers). There's no one in the world who connects to many of my facets. But, I do have friends & family who share some of the facets with me. So with whoever I'm talking to or visiting at that time, I connect with those facets. We find something in common & enjoy ourselves together.
Perhaps we're all gems like that, connecting with different gems till we make a masterpiece. Think of yourself as one unique gem, some of your facets can connect with another lonely gem's facets. It's how I bear feeling lonely & find a way to make it positive.
Rather than the stupid advice about friends your parents gave you, think of yourself as being needed by your friends rather than you just needing friends. We all need one another. We're all connected together. And that's the way it should be. Not absolutely dependent on others, but needing them nonetheless due to our human social nature.
Posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 20:58:33
In reply to Re: It's hard to make friends, posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 17:03:38
I totally agree with the idea of thinking of
others. Unfortunately those of us, like me,
with poor self-esteem are always so afraid we'll
goof it up that we never reach out. I even
worry I'll drop the cake I take over or something!
Or I think they'll figure I'm desperate for friends.I had thought of something like your cake idea.
I had figured I'd ask the new people over for
coffee or something. I have found that one
thing that helps is to remember that when folks
move in they are waiting for the neighbors to
reach out--not vice-versa.Probably the biggest hurdle for folks who
fear meeting others is to stay focused on
the other people to totally stop thinking
of our own potential blunders.Thanks for your suggestions and when the
new folks move in I will make the efforts
and fill you in.gloryb
Posted by Medusa on August 30, 2002, at 3:04:21
In reply to Re: it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely, posted by Kath on August 29, 2002, at 16:54:08
> Do you think that you still believe what they told you?
Kath,
I don't believe the part about being friends with my mother, I don't think. She thinks there's some mystical connection between us since I'm the firstborn, and she complains to people how much I've hurt & rejected her. Like my undying, blind devotion is her g-d-given right. A while ago, a couple of my little sibs were talking about our mother's "friends", and said all they talk about is losing weight and a couple of other topics I can't remember. My sister (she was 10 at the time) said that none of the women can lose weight, because if they did they wouldn't have anything more to talk about, and then they wouldn't be friends!
About the not needing friends, I don't know. I'm really unsure about what friendship means. I tend to cut negative, or over-needy, or unreliable people out really fast, so I don't have many people to just meet for coffee or sandal shopping or whatever ... and I agree with my parents that I don't need *that* kind of friends. Their view seemed to be more that it was materialist, worldly, unspiritual, family-disloyal etc to have friends and enjoy their company. They picked to pieces every person I got along with, and yet tore into me for not making easy conversation with people and for being a bit shy. Sorry to ramble, I'm confused about this! guess I got a lot of mixed messages.
Thanks for asking. The short answer is -I'm not sure what parts of my parents' messages I still believe.
M
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on August 30, 2002, at 4:04:49
In reply to Lonliness and Friends » Medusa, posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 19:05:25
I like that image, lonely gems.
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2002, at 14:27:16
In reply to Lonliness and Friends » Medusa, posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 19:05:25
I love the analogy of the gems & facets!!!
Thanks for that. I'm sure I'll be able to use it in the future.
hugs, Kath
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2002, at 14:33:41
In reply to Re: It's hard to make friends » Kath, posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 20:58:33
Hi gloryb - If having them over for coffee feels better, by all means - do that. They could take home the leftover cake :-)
When I was a teen I was painfully shy & with low self-esteem. One of my best friends seemed so self-assured & I felt out on the edge. Eventually, I learned that I could be an actress & act more self-confident, even if I didn't feel it. Over the years I've done that. I'm still shy inside in many circumstances, but when I mention it often people will be so surprised...I guess I'm not a bad actress!
hugs, Kath
PS - looking forward to hearing how it goes.
PS2 - I have found being "open & honest" helps me alot...especially if I'm going to be doing something that's stressful.For example - if I was having new neighbours over for tea & I felt nervous,I'd say, "Welcome - you know, it's taken a bit of nerve for me to invite you over, because I'm shy about meeting new people, but I really would like to welcome you as my neighbour, so I did it anyway." then switch the topic to them, "Are you moving from very far away?" etc.
good luck, Kath
> I totally agree with the idea of thinking of
> others. Unfortunately those of us, like me,
> with poor self-esteem are always so afraid we'll
> goof it up that we never reach out. I even
> worry I'll drop the cake I take over or something!
> Or I think they'll figure I'm desperate for friends.
>
> I had thought of something like your cake idea.
> I had figured I'd ask the new people over for
> coffee or something. I have found that one
> thing that helps is to remember that when folks
> move in they are waiting for the neighbors to
> reach out--not vice-versa.
>
> Probably the biggest hurdle for folks who
> fear meeting others is to stay focused on
> the other people to totally stop thinking
> of our own potential blunders.
>
> Thanks for your suggestions and when the
> new folks move in I will make the efforts
> and fill you in.
>
> gloryb
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2002, at 14:46:16
In reply to Re: it's okay - allowed - to feel lonely » Kath, posted by Medusa on August 30, 2002, at 3:04:21
>Like my undying, blind devotion is her g-d-given right.
Parents can sometimes be pretty unfair in what they expect from their kids, I think. How we feel about our parents develops from the type of people they are & how they treat us.
> A while ago, a couple of my little sibs were talking about our mother's "friends", and said all they talk about is losing weight and a couple of other topics I can't remember. My sister (she was 10 at the time) said that none of the women can lose weight, because if they did they wouldn't have anything more to talk about, and then they wouldn't be friends!
What wisdom come out of children sometimes!
> About the not needing friends, I don't know. I'm really unsure about what friendship means. I tend to cut negative, or over-needy, or unreliable people out really fast, so I don't have many people to just meet for coffee or sandal shopping or whatever ... and I agree with my parents that I don't need *that* kind of friends.I agree - and I applaud you for cutting those type of people. Sounds like you're taking good care of yourself in that way.
> Their view seemed to be more that it was materialist, worldly, unspiritual, family-disloyal etc to have friends and enjoy their company.To me, that is really unhealthy. Why on earth wouldn't parents want their kids to develop friendships? Why on earth would it be disloyal to family, to enjoy friends' company. Sounds like your parents were pretty insecure.
> They picked to pieces every person I got along with, and yet tore into me for not making easy conversation with people and for being a bit shy.
M, I'm really sorry you had family that criticized you & criticized your choice of friends, etc. Once again, I can't help but think they must have been really insecure to feel threatened by your having friends. It's no wonder you feel confused about this. Don't worry about rambling....I don't think you were rambling!
These are the type of issues about which I've received quite a lot of help from counsellors.
Hope you can sort it out & feel more comfortable about it.hugs, Kath
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