![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Ted on September 1, 2002, at 15:03:58
In reply to Re: Going hypo? » Ted, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on August 31, 2002, at 23:05:52
Hey Tabbi,
> You shameless married man, you...
Guilty as charged. Hey, with your description, what do you expect? Disinterest?
>Tis only about 400 miles from you. How fast do you drive?
Planes fly at 600 mph. Say, 2 or 3 hours door-to-door? Let me know the way. :-)
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 1, 2002, at 19:39:56
In reply to Re: Going hypo?, posted by Ted on September 1, 2002, at 15:03:58
>
> Guilty as charged. Hey, with your description, what do you expect? Disinterest?Did not think of it as enticing. Which part did you like??? Hmm, maybe I should use it as my online personal ad. "Unstable, temporarily hypersexual bipolar female seeks male... blah blah blah, ... reply quickly before mood changes."
>
> >Tis only about 400 miles from you. How fast do you drive?
>
> Planes fly at 600 mph. Say, 2 or 3 hours door-to-door? Let me know the way. :-)
Well well, many smiles to you, naughty Ted, :-) but... we're only kidding, right? When I was an AOL newbie and didn't know better I actually posted a profile with my sex and location. I got IM'd by men who would chat for about 2 sentences then ask if they could come over. Call me innocent but I couldn't believe such things actually happen. I could believe men would want that sort of anonymous quickie, but not women.I always need some kind of nonsexual entanglement first, to build up energy. For example, remember when I was posting recently about the little flirtation/kiss with my young coworker at a party, and feeling mortified having to face him at work later? Well there were like a hundred cute guys at that party that I could have chosen instead, guys who didn't know me and I would have never seen again. But it was the emotional tie that grabbed me. I get strong feelings for coworkers over time-- irritation, jealousy, competitiveness, curiousity, craving their approval, the whole mix, and the chance to sexualize all that is just irresistible (hey that's why I quit drinking at office parties).
I don't actually have much of a sex drive, in terms of just looking at a guy and wanting to jump his bones. Well, almost never.
Then again, I'm getting pretty emotionally involved with Babble, so keep flirting, our day may come yet...
Tabby
Posted by nikioct73 on September 1, 2002, at 20:03:16
In reply to Re: Going hypo?, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 1, 2002, at 19:39:56
You have no idea ..(or do ya..?)..how the comic relief in your Manic threads relaxes me...first real smile I've had in week..(bunnies...)makes me wonder about my own not so euthroid thoughts about being someone other than myself...I think we've all wanted to be that kick ass aerobics instructor/rock star...
thanks again..
Niki
Posted by Ted on September 1, 2002, at 21:38:40
In reply to Re: Going hypo?, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 1, 2002, at 19:39:56
Hi Tabby,
> > Guilty as charged. Hey, with your description, what do you expect? Disinterest?
>
> Did not think of it as enticing. Which part did you like???*>blush<* OK, here goes:
>- Hypersocial, cruising hallways all day looking for someone to chat with.
>- Said things that were just a little bit inappropriate at work. Thinking it's OK to be a little wilder, a little flirtatious....So you wanna talk dirty to me, huh? That sounds kinda fun. :-)
>- Craving sex, sex, sex.
Works for me.
>- Craving romance, romance, romance.
Fun too until it gets too complicated (unfortunately it only takes about 1 or 2 days with a woman before romance gets "too complicated").
- Craving fun, fun, fun.
Sounds like, well, fun
- Had this intense idea about total acceptance of my body and aging self. It was elusive yet seemed all encompassing. Intense feelings of grief.
I like total acceptance -- it means no hangups and we can have lots of fun (see above: talking dirty & sex, etc.).
I don't know how to handle that part about grief.
- Calling friend at midnight to discuss idea about total acceptance of aging self. He didn't get it.
Nah. It's midnight. Let me sleep. I have bipolar too. :-)
- Wearing dresses and lipstick
- Considering nail polish. Attraction to nail polish is one of my major hypo indicators, seriously.Add lingerie from Victoria's Secret and you sound yummier than any dessert. No lie. :-)
Nothing is sexier than a woman who likes being sexy. However, don't forget Lauren Bacall: "A man is more interested in a woman who is interested in him than he is in a woman, any woman, with great legs." Since you sound hungry for attention, you sound like you will be interested in me, so this issue is also solved. :-)
>Hmm, maybe I should use it as my online personal ad. "Unstable, temporarily hypersexual bipolar female seeks male... blah blah blah, ... reply quickly before mood changes."
ROFLMAO! Could you imagine two bipolars in this way? If they meet at the right time, the earth will shake. If both at the wrong time, war will break out.
> > >Tis only about 400 miles from you. How fast do you drive?
> >
> > Planes fly at 600 mph. Say, 2 or 3 hours door-to-door? Let me know the way. :-)
>
>
> Well well, many smiles to you, naughty Ted, :-) but... we're only kidding, right?
I dunno.... Maybe I have to take a business trip soon. :-)>When I was an AOL newbie
Oxymoron. One needn't be redundant.
>I actually posted a profile with my sex and location. I got IM'd by men who would chat for about 2 sentences then ask if they could come over. Call me innocent but I couldn't believe such things actually happen. I could believe men would want that sort of anonymous quickie, but not women.
This is California. Lots of women like anonymous quickies. You just have to accept yourself and your desires. Nothing wrong with that -- it's sexy in fact.
> I always need some kind of nonsexual entanglement first, to build up energy.
So what is this? Church service?
> I don't actually have much of a sex drive, in terms of just looking at a guy and wanting to jump his bones. Well, almost never.
WHAT? You wait until NOW to say this? Geez. Now that just ruins everything. ;-)
>so keep flirting, our day may come yet...
How's this? :-)
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 2, 2002, at 2:12:01
In reply to Re: Going hypo? » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Ted on September 1, 2002, at 21:38:40
Whoa, it was getting really warm in here, until...
>
> Fun too until it gets too complicated (unfortunately it only takes about 1 or 2 days with a woman before romance gets "too complicated").Sigh. Isn't that the sad part? After 1 or 2 days of, um, dalliance, I'd be completely hooked and you'd be out of there. I really believe sex makes women fall in love, and for men, it just, well, doesn't. It's just kind of like a good meal for them, it fills them up and they move on to the next activity.
>
> Nothing is sexier than a woman who likes being sexy. However, don't forget Lauren Bacall: "A man is more interested in a woman who is interested in him than he is in a woman, any woman, with great legs." Since you sound hungry for attention, you sound like you will be interested in me, so this issue is also solved. :-)Yeah, there's something to be said for putting out vibes. I've got myself convinced, though, that most guys pursue the gorgeous babes who show little interest, and ignore the less gorgeous women who actually want them. (Not that I'm not gorgeous, of course.)
>
>
> >When I was an AOL newbie
>
> Oxymoron. One needn't be redundant.Hey be nice. I'm still on AOL. If you ask nicely I might tell you my screen name.
>
> This is California. Lots of women like anonymous quickies. You just have to accept yourself and your desires. Nothing wrong with that -- it's sexy in fact.My married guy friend told me this same thing. I guess I need to hear it from a woman to believe it. I just think even if women do indulge in anonymous quickies, it's with the fantasy that it's actually the start of some great passion. Then when the guy doesn't call, they feel like s***.
>
> > I always need some kind of nonsexual entanglement first, to build up energy.
>
> So what is this? Church service?Point taken. You probably don't want to hear this, but... this make me think. It's the painful entanglements that I try to sexualize, not like here where I"m actually having fun and feeling pretty much free to be myself. Isn't that sad? I need to get re-wired so I can actually get some real gratification, you know, being singularly cherished and accepted and loved and all that, plus sex.
>
> > I don't actually have much of a sex drive, in terms of just looking at a guy and wanting to jump his bones. Well, almost never.
>
> WHAT? You wait until NOW to say this? Geez. Now that just ruins everything. ;-)Sorry dear. The meds and all. Actually I"ve always been this way. Hypomania aside, I only feel a real physical desire about 2 days in my monthly cycle. Are you starting to get why I"m single?
>
> >so keep flirting, our day may come yet...
>
> How's this? :-)Pretty darn good, Ted, you big hunk of married 40 yr old mood-cyclin' silicon valley fruit-lovin' techie geek, er, I mean high-powered software executive.
Posted by Roo on September 2, 2002, at 10:03:45
In reply to Re: Going hypo?, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 2, 2002, at 2:12:01
Okay, y'all need to stop now, you're getting me all
vicariously riled up!
Posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 11:44:20
In reply to Re: Going hypo?, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 2, 2002, at 2:12:01
Hi Tabby,
> Whoa, it was getting really warm in here, until...
It's still kinda warm....
> > Fun too until it gets too complicated (unfortunately it only takes about 1 or 2 days with a woman before romance gets "too complicated").
> After 1 or 2 days of, um, dalliance, I'd be completely hooked and you'd be out of there.
Not necessarily. As long as you are neither aloof nor smothering nor possessive, it'll be fine.
>I really believe sex makes women fall in love, and for men, it just, well, doesn't. It's just kind of like a good meal for them, it fills them up and they move on to the next activity.
Sometimes, for some men. I don't think I was like that before I got married. As Ann Landers used to say, "Women give sex in exchange for love; men give love in exchange for sex." I think it's too general, but true in many cases.
>I've got myself convinced, though, that most guys pursue the gorgeous babes who show little interest, and ignore the less gorgeous women who actually want them.
My wife isn't the prettiest of my former girlfriends, not by a long shot. But she is smart and she likes me. That's what counts.
It goes both ways. That's why there are so many really nice single guys. I have two single female coworkers who have only had "bad boy" boyfriends and my secretary's husband is a "bad boy". None were interested in nice guys. Then they all complain about how mean and insensitive their "bad boys" are, how much trouble they are always in, how little money they make, how little they can be trusted, how their parents hate them, etc. My secretary is convinced now that she should have married a boring engineer. :-)
>(Not that I'm not gorgeous, of course.)
You're as gorgeous as you feel. Plus, some sexy lingerie, nail polish, lipstick, and a slinky dress go a long way. :-)
> > >When I was an AOL newbie
> > Oxymoron. One needn't be redundant.
> Hey be nice. I'm still on AOL.Sorry. You need not stay with AOL. If you use dialup, switch to Juno and save a bundle; otherwise switch to DSL or digital cable (what I use), and you don't need anything.
>If you ask nicely I might tell you my screen name.
I don't use AOL, so it wouldn't be of use. Perhaps an email address.... :-) Or a street address... :-) Or a phone number.... :-) Whoa, I better slow down here.
Or, just look in the recent archives and get my email address.
>>anonymous quickies.> My married guy friend told me this same thing. I guess I need to hear it from a woman to believe it.
So you don't believe anything a man says? So if your boyfriend whispers naughty, sexy compliments in your ear, you would look at him and say, "LIAR!"
Geez. Gimme a break. :-)
>Then when the guy doesn't call...
Phones work both ways, dear. Women can call men anytime, and women can ask men out on dates and ACTUALLY PAY FOR *THEM*! Amazing but true! And men actually *like* that! And they don't all see it as an invitation for sex!! Even more amazing!
That's why *a lot* of shy but nice, single men die batchelors. It's *really* tough to ask women out, especially the first time. And to keep trying in the face of rejection... Uggh. Not fun, not fun at all. Now you understand Jay.
Sorry. When my wife and I got married and combined our savings, etc., she said something like, "WOW! Why do I have *so much* more money than you?" My reply, "When was the last time you paid for a date? When was the last time you offered to drive, thus paying for gasoline, parking, etc.? I had to replace my bomb (junk auto) because you wouldn't ride in it on dates, but you still drive your bomb." You get the idea.
> You probably don't want to hear this, but... this make me think. It's the painful entanglements that I try to sexualize, not like here where I"m actually having fun and feeling pretty much free to be myself.
Why wouldn't I like this? You are feeling yourself, having fun, not getting entangled, etc. It's true for me too. And we can't be too sexual 400 miles apart.
>Isn't that sad?
No...
>I need to get re-wired so I can actually get some real gratification, you know, being singularly cherished and accepted and loved and all that, plus sex.
There are lots of single nice guys. Find one and have fun.
> Sorry dear. The meds and all. Actually I"ve always been this way. Hypomania aside, I only feel a real physical desire about 2 days in my monthly cycle. Are you starting to get why I"m single?
Well, my wife is wild for only about 4-5 days out of 28. That's natural. It's those who can't get enough for 29 out of those 28 days that are a little suspicious. :-)
You don't need "real physical desire". You only need to accept that your mate is "hungrier" and to relax. Also, _tell_ him what you like and want -- he'll find it sexy and you'll have a better time.
>...you big hunk of married 40 yr old mood-cyclin' silicon valley fruit-lovin' techie geek, er,
Careful there, slow down. :-)
>I mean high-powered software executive.
Nah. Ain't me. I hate management. BTDT.
Keep it coming, Tabby. It makes Niki & Roo get all excited. :-)
Ted
Posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 11:47:33
In reply to Re: Going hypo? Ted and Tabith, posted by Roo on September 2, 2002, at 10:03:45
Hi Roo,
> Okay, y'all need to stop now, you're getting me all
> vicariously riled up!No way! You'll have to join us!
I always wanted a threesome. :-)
Ted
Posted by nikioct73 on September 2, 2002, at 12:14:32
In reply to Re: Going hypo? » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 11:44:20
if I have to live through ya'll..might as well be interesting..keep it coming..:-)
Posted by Roo on September 2, 2002, at 12:30:34
In reply to Re: Going hypo? Ted and Tabith » Roo, posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 11:47:33
>
> No way! You'll have to join us!
> > I always wanted a threesome. :-)
(Smile)...and I picture Tabby to be such a cutie in
my mind's eye ;-)I always thought a threesome would be fun too--but ONLY
with strangers...would _never_ want to share my significant
other...i'm too jealous...I also think it's like most fantasies...it's probably more fun
of a fantasy than a reality. The mind can sometimes be hell...but then
the mind can be so much fun too! I really do believe the biggest sex
organ is between your ears.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
Posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 13:10:54
In reply to Re: Going hypo? Ted , posted by Roo on September 2, 2002, at 12:30:34
Hi Roo,
> (Smile)...and I picture Tabby to be such a cutie in
> my mind's eye ;-)You're not alone, especially with all that talk about dressing up! :-)
> I always thought a threesome would be fun too--but ONLY
> with strangers...Well... We're strangers, sorta. :-)
> would _never_ want to share my significant
> other...i'm too jealous...What is it with women and jealousy? Why can't women separate sex (and its pleasure) with love? They aren't the same.
> I also think it's like most fantasies...it's probably more fun
> of a fantasy than a reality.Yeah... probably. But hey, I'm willing to give it a try. :-)
After all, Gabbi's ex dumped her so he could boink a redhead. Do you really think it mattered that she was a redhead after the first couple of boinks? For that matter, Gabbi could have died her hair red and dressed up like a hooker and let him use her until he got it out of his system (would probably take only an hour or so).
>The mind can sometimes be hell...
That's what brought us together, dear! ;-)
> but then
> the mind can be so much fun too! I really do believe the biggest sex
> organ is between your ears.That's been known for years! It can also be the smallest sex organ, meaning a bad attitude can ruin any fun.
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 2, 2002, at 17:23:08
In reply to Re: Going hypo? Ted » Roo, posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 13:10:54
No fair, I turn my back for a couple of hours and Ted's attentions have already turned to another woman!
> Hi Roo,
>
> > (Smile)...and I picture Tabby to be such a cutie in
> > my mind's eye ;-)
>
> You're not alone, especially with all that talk about dressing up! :-)
Aw shucks, thanks guys. I've always thought Roo sounds like a cutie too.>
> Not necessarily. As long as you are neither aloof nor smothering nor possessive, it'll be fine.
>Well, sadly, I tend to flip between aloof and clingy. Still working on finding that middle ground. It's the whole, if I show interest and it's not reciprocated, I'm humiliated thing. Hence the aloofness. I really need to lose that. Learn to radiate desire without expectation
>
> > I always thought a threesome would be fun too--but ONLY
> > with strangers...
>
> Well... We're strangers, sorta. :-)Never had much interest in a threesome. Too much worry about ending up left out. But... concurrent affairs with a member of each gender, now that would be very nice.
>
> > would _never_ want to share my significant
> > other...i'm too jealous...
>
> What is it with women and jealousy? Why can't women separate sex (and its pleasure) with love? They aren't the same.Ted, Ted, Ted. Tell us how they're different. I really want to know how you guys do it (keep them separate I mean).
I think it's that male/female wiring difference again. I gripe to my therapist about this, since after all it's much easier to find a fling than a partner, but I just can't seem to have a fling--I always get attached, even if the guy is totally inappropriate as a real boyfriend. My therapist says, why would you want to separate your sexuality from your emotions? It's not healthy anyway. I love her for that, makes me feel proud of my female wiring. Then again, sure would be fun to switch it off now and then.
> >>anonymous quickies.
>
> > My married guy friend told me this same thing. I guess I need to hear it from a woman to believe it.
>
> So you don't believe anything a man says? So if your boyfriend whispers naughty, sexy compliments in your ear, you would look at him and say, "LIAR!"
>
> Geez. Gimme a break. :-)No, no, no, that's not what I meant. I mean a guy might see it as a quickie, but unbeknownst to him it could mean a lot more to a woman. For instance, back when I was much more of a naughty girl, I once went off with a guy after a party for sex on the beach. To him it was a quickie, but little did he know I'd had a huge crush on him, obsessing day and night, for an entire year beforehand. So his quickie was my culmination of great cosmic passion.
And I love compliments. Especially the whispered kind.
> >(Not that I'm not gorgeous, of course.)
>
> You're as gorgeous as you feel. Plus, some sexy lingerie, nail polish, lipstick, and a slinky dress go a long way. :-)
>I know, dudes dig lingerie. Am I alone in having a hard time feeling sexy wearing it? It's likely to make me compare myself to the catalog model, a decidedly un-sexy feeling. I'm much more comfortable with cute dresses and shoes, then you get points for style and not just perfectly proportioned flesh.
> >Then when the guy doesn't call...
>
> Phones work both ways, dear. Women can call men anytime, and women can ask men out on dates and ACTUALLY PAY FOR *THEM*! Amazing but true! And men actually *like* that! And they don't all see it as an invitation for sex!! Even more amazing!
>
> That's why *a lot* of shy but nice, single men die batchelors. It's *really* tough to ask women out, especially the first time. And to keep trying in the face of rejection... Uggh. Not fun, not fun at all. Now you understand Jay.Well, I appreciate how difficult it must be. I used to ask men out, but sadly, it didn't really work out too well. It just didn't feel romantic. I finally learned, if a guy doesn't ask me out after I've shown plenty of interest, then either he's not that interested, or he's too passive for me. At this point in my life I want to be courted.
>
> Perhaps an email address.... :-) Or a street address... :-) Or a phone number.... :-) Whoa, I better slow down here.
>Thanks Ted. So nice to be asked. :-) And you might just be able to find my email in the archives too.
>
> > but then
> > the mind can be so much fun too! I really do believe the biggest sex
> > organ is between your ears.
>
> That's been known for years! It can also be the smallest sex organ, meaning a bad attitude can ruin any fun.
>You're so right guys. So much of it is attitude. I think mine has been improved by all this flirting. Think I'll go out and radiate my loveliness to all those lovely flesh and blood humans out there. :-)
Posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 21:17:04
In reply to Re: Going hypo? Ted Roo, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 2, 2002, at 17:23:08
Hey Tabby,
> No fair, I turn my back for a couple of hours and Ted's attentions have already turned to another woman!
Well... YOU weren't here and Roo was. She sounded interested (and interesting) as well.
> Aw shucks, thanks guys. I've always thought Roo sounds like a cutie too.
My pleasure. *REALLY*. ;-)
> Well, sadly, I tend to flip between aloof and clingy.
Then we'll have to keep this purely physical, understand?
> Learn to radiate desire without expectation
Tabby, you sound yummier every day! :-)
> Never had much interest in a threesome. Too much worry about ending up left out.
Don't worry, *I* would never let that happen. :-)
>But... concurrent affairs with a member of each gender, now that would be very nice.
Ooohh! That sounds F-U-N! Can I watch? :-)
> > What is it with women and jealousy? Why can't women separate sex (and its pleasure) with love? They aren't the same.
>
> Ted, Ted, Ted. Tell us how they're different.Sex is done purely for pleasure, and not just for one's own. It is the giving and receiving of the most ultimately pleasurable experiences nature has created. It is done only for pleasure. For proof: would you have sex, with anyone, if you didn't get *any* pleasure whatsoever from it? I didn't think so.
Love is the caring for another person and accepting them as they are, not as you might like for them to be. It is also being accepted for all one's faults, kinky peculiarities, etc.
>I really want to know how you guys do it (keep them separate I mean).
We have sex because we enjoy it and we have someone we love. Simple as that. My wife doesn't understand how I wouldn't be jealous if she had sex with another man. My position is this: Do she love me? Am I the one with whom she wants to spend her life? If so, then it doesn't matter if she gets pleasure elsewhere occasionally. When I am no longer the one she loves, then there is a problem.
> I think it's that male/female wiring difference again. I gripe to my therapist about this, since after all it's much easier to find a fling than a partner...Really? When I was single, I didn't have one-night-stands. Either the women were total losers with whom I didn't want to waste my time or they were (at least potential) winners who I wanted to get to know better.
(Call me weird, but for me, women must have two characteristics: 1. they must be intelligent (I hate morons) and 2. they must be attractive; not fashionable or anything, just not coyote-ugly. If they fail test #1, then I don't bother with test #2.)
>My therapist says, why would you want to separate your sexuality from your emotions?
Because it make life easier. MUCH easier.
>It's not healthy anyway. I love her for that, makes me feel proud of my female wiring. Then again, sure would be fun to switch it off now and then.
Boy I'll say. :-)
> No, no, no, that's not what I meant. I mean a guy might see it as a quickie, but unbeknownst to him it could mean a lot more to a woman.
Beforehand, unless there has been some communication, one never knows if it is "just" a quickie. Afterwards, though, you have a chance:
Here's a test. For each YES, give yourself 1 point:
1. Did he go out of his way to make sure she was completely satisfied?
2. Did he hold her and kiss her afterwards?
3. Did he stay with her for a while, perhaps hours, afterwards?0-1 point: It was a quickie. Wham, bam, and thank you ma'am.
2-3 points: He is interested and caring. Not a quickie. He wants to see you again.>For instance, back when I was much more of a naughty girl
You mean you're not naughty now? Dang it! You keep coming up with these things at the worst times!
>I once went off with a guy after a party for sex on the beach. To him it was a quickie
Think back and do my test.
>but little did he know I'd had a huge crush on him, obsessing day and night, for an entire year beforehand.
No communication beforehand? Well, what did you expect of him? Any sex without communication is by definition a quickie.
>So his quickie was my culmination of great cosmic passion.
I'm sorry to say this, but I think the error was in your expectations. Now, had you communicated your expectations, you might have got more out of it.
If you could have separated sex from love (or infatuation), you could have enjoyed the quickie for what it was, and then pursued him further.
> And I love compliments. Especially the whispered kind.
Good! I might have to whisper some sometime. :-)
> > You're as gorgeous as you feel. Plus, some sexy lingerie, nail polish, lipstick, and a slinky dress go a long way. :-)
> I know, dudes dig lingerie.
Something funny I think I read here (maybe from Bobby?): "If love is blind, then why is sexy lingerie such big business?"
>Am I alone in having a hard time feeling sexy wearing it?
No. It takes getting used to, according to my wife. It is something you have to enjoy doing for your lover. First, it must be at least somewhat comfortable so you wont reject it. Second, you have to keep in your mind, "I have a little secret no one around me knows about until later, and then only my lover will know." And you have to feel OK dressing a little like a hooker. Remember, hookers stole it from good girls, not the other way around. But you needn't advertise like a hooker. Sometimes getting dressed up make my wife hornier than her being dressed up makes me.
>It's likely to make me compare myself to the catalog model, a decidedly un-sexy feeling.
That's a mistake. My wife is a size 18-20 and she is still sexier than probably 80% of women I know and see. It is all in your attitude. Sure she isn't as attractive as the VS girls, but so what. She is *sexy* and she is *mine*. :-)
> I'm much more comfortable with cute dresses and shoes, then you get points for style and not just perfectly proportioned flesh.
Good start. Now I could give you some tips on how to proceed, but in this public forum, I don't want to get Niki, Roo, or Dinah all upset or Bobby, Jay, Phil, or Greg (or Dr. Bob) all excited. :-)
> Well, I appreciate how difficult it must be. I used to ask men out, but sadly, it didn't really work out too well. It just didn't feel romantic.
Huh? Maybe it's just me, but that Lauren Bacall thing about a woman being interested in me.... Before I was married, on the few times when *I* was asked out, I found it a wonderful ego boost to know that an intelligent, attractive woman who could have anyone she wanted willingly chose me to spend her time with.
>I finally learned, if a guy doesn't ask me out after I've shown plenty of interest, then either he's not that interested, or he's too passive for me.
Well, that's certainly true, and it works both ways. But once he has shown some interest, have you tried it? Well?
>At this point in my life I want to be courted.
I'm trying my hardest. :-)
>And you might just be able to find my email in the archives too.
I'll start looking right away :-)
>So much of it is attitude. I think mine has been improved by all this flirting.
Good for you! I have enjoyed it tremendously.
>Think I'll go out and radiate my loveliness to all those lovely flesh and blood humans out there. :-)
Great! Just don't flash them too much -- you might get yourself in trouble. :-)
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 0:22:08
In reply to Tabby is on the prowl! » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Ted on September 2, 2002, at 21:17:04
>
> > Well, sadly, I tend to flip between aloof and clingy.
>
> Then we'll have to keep this purely physical, understand?Ouch! Tabitha suddenly feels a lot less flirty :(
>
> >But... concurrent affairs with a member of each gender, now that would be very nice.
>
> Ooohh! That sounds F-U-N! Can I watch? :-)
I think then it would be considered a threesome, wouldn't it?
>
> Sex is done purely for pleasure, and not just for one's own. It is the giving and receiving of the most ultimately pleasurable experiences nature has created. It is done only for pleasure. For proof: would you have sex, with anyone, if you didn't get *any* pleasure whatsoever from it?
I have to say, Ted, no offense intended, honest, but only a man could say this. If a woman is not assertive, and dates men who don't particularly cherish her, I guarantee there will be plenty of very non-pleasureable sex in her life. When I think pure physical pleasure, I think battery-operated devices.
>
> We have sex because we enjoy it and we have someone we love. Simple as that. My wife doesn't understand how I wouldn't be jealous if she had sex with another man. My position is this: Do she love me? Am I the one with whom she wants to spend her life? If so, then it doesn't matter if she gets pleasure elsewhere occasionally. When I am no longer the one she loves, then there is a problem.Hmm, I'm gonna have to be a little skeptical of this. If your wife really did have an affair, all of her own, not something for your entertainment, you'd really be OK with it?
>
>
> > I think it's that male/female wiring difference again. I gripe to my therapist about this, since after all it's much easier to find a fling than a partner...
>
> Really? When I was single, I didn't have one-night-stands. Either the women were total losers with whom I didn't want to waste my time or they were (at least potential) winners who I wanted to get to know better.
Well, trust me, it's easier to find "just sex" than a real partner. Ever listen to Liz Phair? There's a good song about this topic.>
> (Call me weird, but for me, women must have two characteristics: 1. they must be intelligent (I hate morons) and 2. they must be attractive; not fashionable or anything, just not coyote-ugly. If they fail test #1, then I don't bother with test #2.)Why do you think this is weird? Lots of guys like smart women. Lots of people have strange taste in looks too. The young lovelies get the most quantity of attention though.
>
> >My therapist says, why would you want to separate your sexuality from your emotions?
>
> Because it make life easier. MUCH easier.
Yeah, I tell her that. Somehow she thinks personality integration is a better goal for me than getting more sex.
> >So his quickie was my culmination of great cosmic passion.
>
> I'm sorry to say this, but I think the error was in your expectations. Now, had you communicated your expectations, you might have got more out of it.
>Oh I know it was completely foolish-- that was back when I was young and ignorant and believed that sex would make a man get attached to me. If I had communicated my expectations I"m sure he would have run the other way! But my point was, the man might come away from it convinced that there are plenty of women out there who want uncomplicated sex. I didn't, it just looked that way to him.
Another example, I knew an unfortunate young woman who dated several men at one company and got a reputation as the office slut. Then men assumed she was just sex-hungry, but I saw her as seeking validation. That place was terribly anti-woman, and the only possible validation a woman could get was sexual. She was a normal nice young woman when she started there, then gradually transformed. Poor thing got rejected by one guy after another, of course, because nobody wants to be the boyfriend of the office slut, though everybody wanted to go out with her once or twice.
>
> Beforehand, unless there has been some communication, one never knows if it is "just" a quickie. Afterwards, though, you have a chance:
>
> Here's a test. For each YES, give yourself 1 point:
>
> 1. Did he go out of his way to make sure she was completely satisfied?
> 2. Did he hold her and kiss her afterwards?
> 3. Did he stay with her for a while, perhaps hours, afterwards?
>
> 0-1 point: It was a quickie. Wham, bam, and thank you ma'am.
> 2-3 points: He is interested and caring. Not a quickie. He wants to see you again.OK Ted, I think you've just made my point. If the sign of a quickie is the man making little effort to satisfy the woman, then why on earth would lots of women want this???
> No. It takes getting used to, according to my wife. It is something you have to enjoy doing for your lover. First, it must be at least somewhat comfortable so you wont reject it. Second, you have to keep in your mind, "I have a little secret no one around me knows about until later, and then only my lover will know."
Don't give me ideas about little daytime secrets. See previous posts about inappropriate lust for young coworker. Maybe I should start wearing big granny panties, a la Bridget Jones.
>But you needn't advertise like a hooker.You mean I shouldn't ask guys if they want to see my thong? Dang, no wonder I don't have a boyfriend.
> That's a mistake. My wife is a size 18-20 and she is still sexier than probably 80% of women I know and see. It is all in your attitude. Sure she isn't as attractive as the VS girls, but so what. She is *sexy* and she is *mine*. :-)
Nice for her. But, um, Ted, how does she feel about all this extra-marital flirting?
>
> > I'm much more comfortable with cute dresses and shoes, then you get points for style and not just perfectly proportioned flesh.
>
> Good start. Now I could give you some tips on how to proceed, but in this public forum, I don't want to get Niki, Roo, or Dinah all upset or Bobby, Jay, Phil, or Greg (or Dr. Bob) all excited. :-)Phil! OMG! I forgot about Phil! Now I've probably ruined my chances with him :(
>
> >I finally learned, if a guy doesn't ask me out after I've shown plenty of interest, then either he's not that interested, or he's too passive for me.
>
> Well, that's certainly true, and it works both ways. But once he has shown some interest, have you tried it? Well?Yes I have. Once a guy asked me out a couple times, sort of a "let's go out sometime" thing, and I said yes. Then he never followed up. I was totally smitten, so I decided what the heck, I'd push it. I said, "do you still want to have lunch? Well how about this Friday?" We had lunch and he never asked me out again. That's been pretty much the result every time I"ve asked a man out. I've just come to believe, like that stupid book _The Rules_ says, if he doesn't ask you out, he's not that interested. Period.
>
> >Think I'll go out and radiate my loveliness to all those lovely flesh and blood humans out there. :-)
>
> Great! Just don't flash them too much -- you might get yourself in trouble. :-)
Um, I just meant like actually relax and make eye contact instead of my usual shy scurrying about. Baby steps, Ted, baby steps. :)
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 6:22:11
In reply to Re: Shhh!, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 0:22:08
So, since you have so many thoughts on the difference between sex and love, I must ask...
When I was young and foolish (OK up til about 37) I honestly believed that giving men sex would make them get attached to me and fall in love. I believed this since sex made me get attached and fall in love, and I hadn't cottoned to the whole different wiring of the sexes. This naturally made for lots of heartbreak, and lots of unsatisfying sex. I finally accepted that sex does not make men fall in love. But I still don't know, what *does* make men fall in love?
Your thoughts?
Posted by Dinah on September 3, 2002, at 8:22:12
In reply to Re: Shhh!, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 0:22:08
> >
>
> When I think pure physical pleasure, I think battery-operated devices.
>ROFLMAO
You're right Tabitha. :)
If what you want is physical pleasure, men are fine, but appliances are a 100% sure bet.
And quickies with your favorite appliance have few emotional boobytraps connected with them. And they are certainly safe sex (as long as you keep them out of contact with water).
Posted by Ted on September 3, 2002, at 17:38:07
In reply to Re: and the $600 question... Ted..., posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 6:22:11
Hi Tabby,
First, I want to say that we are conversing on this venue not because we are "normal", but because we have social and/or psychological problems at some level, so anything said does not necessarily represent mainstream belief.
That said....
> But I still don't know, what *does* make men fall in love?
> Your thoughts?
At first thought, my answer would be, "Hell, I don't know."
After some thought, though, I would add the following:
1. It certainly isn't the sex, not that it's not wanted or anything. :-)
2. For me, I think it is having someone who is truly interested in *me*, in my interests, in making me happy, etc. Someone who selflessly gives herself and her attention to me. Someone who makes me comfortable to share my innermost thoughts, feelings, secrets, and fantasies without fear of rejection. Sex is secondary. It ties the bond. Friends first, lovers second, sexual partners third.
All men are different. I know some who would never admit they were ever "in love". For them, "love" is having a steady sex partner, period.
The vulnerabilities I listed are exactly why we feel such emotional pain following a breakup with someone whom we really, truly love, and why it is so terribly difficult to recover and do it all over again with someone new. Gabby is a perfect example. I am too -- it's been 17 years and I still feel the pain. I don't know what makes the pain go away. My wife knows of my loss but she doesn't understand it because she has never felt it.
How's that? Did I pass the test? How do I collect my $600?
Ted
Posted by Ted on September 3, 2002, at 18:14:35
In reply to Re: Shhh!, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 3, 2002, at 0:22:08
Hi Tabby,
> Ouch! Tabitha suddenly feels a lot less flirty :(
OK, then we will have to keep this on a purely emotional and flirtatious level. I'm not trying to scare you away!
> > >But... concurrent affairs with a member of each gender, now that would be very nice.
> >
> > Ooohh! That sounds F-U-N! Can I watch? :-)> I think then it would be considered a threesome, wouldn't it?
Only if I participate. Watching isn't participation.
> If a woman is not assertive, and dates men who don't particularly cherish her, I guarantee there will be plenty of very non-pleasureable sex in her life.
Why would she date men who do not cherish her? Low self esteem? Desperation?
>When I think pure physical pleasure, I think battery-operated devices.
OK, well Dinah thinks that way too. But when my wife has a choice between me and her battery operated devices, why does she _always_ choose me? She has said often that the battery operated devices are "only OK in a pinch and not all that great." I think they are a valuable accessory but not a necessary tool.
> Hmm, I'm gonna have to be a little skeptical of this. If your wife really did have an affair, all of her own, not something for your entertainment, you'd really be OK with it?
OK, I'm weird. If she has a one- or two-visit affair, that's fine. When she would rather be with him (or her) than me, then there's a problem.
> Well, trust me, it's easier to find "just sex" than a real partner.
I suppose. $150 at a massage parlor or $20 on the street. YUCK!!
>Ever listen to Liz Phair? There's a good song about this topic.
No -- I don't know Liz Phair. I live a sheltered life in classical music.
> Why do you think this is weird? Lots of guys like smart women.
More guys like models with giant breasts and little enough brain not to question why they hang around with such men. Trust me.
>Lots of people have strange taste in looks too.
Ain't that the truth!! :-)
Hanging out in the airport or the mall is a *riot*.>The young lovelies get the most quantity of attention though.
True, and for good reason. And it's both men AND women. But there are still plenty approaching middle age who are absolute knock-outs.
> OK Ted, I think you've just made my point. If the sign of a quickie is the man making little effort to satisfy the woman, then why on earth would lots of women want this???
Because *so many* men want uncomplicated sex and too many women are willing to provide it. I'm sorry... I was raised differently. I only visited a bar once in my life. My lifetime consumption of beer is under 2 liters. Women shouldn't say "yes" on the first, second, or even third date. Friends first, lovers second, sex partners third.
> Don't give me ideas about little daytime secrets. See previous posts about inappropriate lust for young coworker. Maybe I should start wearing big granny panties, a la Bridget Jones.
No, you should wear sheer, lacy bikinis or thongs and you *should* fantasize about your coworker. Fantasy is great, healthy, and fun. The only problem is when you let your fantasy control your actions.
> >But you needn't advertise like a hooker.
> You mean I shouldn't ask guys if they want to see my thong? Dang, no wonder I don't have a boyfriend.
No, you shouldn't show them your thong before either of you says a word to the other. :-) If you show him your thong first, then I guarantee he won't be interested in being your boyfriend.
> Nice for her. But, um, Ted, how does she feel about all this extra-marital flirting?
I keep my willy in my pants and my hands to myself. We have never met nor even seen a photo of the other. She has little to complain about. She's a woman, though, so she'll probably still be pissed.
> Phil! OMG! I forgot about Phil! Now I've probably ruined my chances with him :(
Either that or your chances have dramatically improved! :-) Just show him your thong and see what happens. :-)
> Yes I have. Once a guy asked me out a couple times, sort of a "let's go out sometime" thing, and I said yes. Then he never followed up. I was totally smitten, so I decided what the heck, I'd push it. I said, "do you still want to have lunch? Well how about this Friday?" We had lunch and he never asked me out again.
My guess is he wasn't interested and he wouldn't have asked you out again anyway unless he was relatively sure you were going to show him your thong.
> Um, I just meant like actually relax and make eye contact instead of my usual shy scurrying about. Baby steps, Ted, baby steps. :)
Ok, ok. Just be careful and most of all, HAVE FUN! Flirting is fun, especially in public with strangers. Just be careful with them.
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 4, 2002, at 1:11:11
In reply to Re: and the $600 question... Ted... » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Ted on September 3, 2002, at 17:38:07
> Hi Tabby,
>
> First, I want to say that we are conversing on this venue not because we are "normal", but because we have social and/or psychological problems at some level, so anything said does not necessarily represent mainstream belief.OK, I promise to discount your answer as just one crazy guy's opinion :-)
>
> 1. It certainly isn't the sex, not that it's not wanted or anything. :-)
>
> 2. For me, I think it is having someone who is truly interested in *me*, in my interests, in making me happy, etc. Someone who selflessly gives herself and her attention to me. Someone who makes me comfortable to share my innermost thoughts, feelings, secrets, and fantasies without fear of rejection. Sex is secondary. It ties the bond. Friends first, lovers second, sexual partners third.
OK, so it's who you feel safe in opening up to. Excuse my probing, but surely it couldn't just be anyone? Doesn't your loved one need some unique qualities?
>
> All men are different. I know some who would never admit they were ever "in love". For them, "love" is having a steady sex partner, period.Well, nuts to them. They're missing out.
>
> The vulnerabilities I listed are exactly why we feel such emotional pain following a breakup with someone whom we really, truly love, and why it is so terribly difficult to recover and do it all over again with someone new.Alright, this is just one crazy girl's opinion, but when I'm wanting to die over a breakup, I think it's because I'm reliving my childhood abandonment stuff. Once again I failed to be special enough to make daddy stay. Boy is that an awful feeling. The actual loss of the relationship is pretty minor in comparison.
>I am too -- it's been 17 years and I still feel the pain. I don't know what makes the pain go away.I think it's that grief process thing. I know it's hard to get it started.
>My wife knows of my loss but she doesn't understand it because she has never felt it.
Your wife must be lucky to have snagged her dream man first thing!
>
> How's that? Did I pass the test?
No test, sincere question. Thanks for your thoughts.>How do I collect my $600?
ulp, um, er, the check's in the mail.
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 4, 2002, at 1:18:47
In reply to Re: Shhh! » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Dinah on September 3, 2002, at 8:22:12
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> You're right Tabitha. :)
Thanks for some female support here. Although watch out, or you'll become the next threesome inductee.
>
> And quickies with your favorite appliance have few emotional boobytraps connected with them. And they are certainly safe sexSo true. You're giving me a whole new respect for my little toys. There they are, endlessly giving, asking nothing except the occasional change of batteries, never criticizing my thighs.
>(as long as you keep them out of contact with water).
I said batteries, not A/C powered. Puh-leeze.
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 4, 2002, at 2:09:31
In reply to Re: Shhh!, posted by Ted on September 3, 2002, at 18:14:35
>
> OK, then we will have to keep this on a purely emotional and flirtatious level. I'm not trying to scare you away!Perhaps our 2 days are up. Starting to get complicated. ;-)
> > I think then it would be considered a threesome, wouldn't it?
>
> Only if I participate. Watching isn't participation.So are you OK if there's a dog in the room? Just... watching?
>
> No -- I don't know Liz Phair. I live a sheltered life in classical music.
Well the song I was thinking of is all about ending up with a one-nighter when you really want a boyfriend. The lyrics don't read too well on their own, but if you're curious, here's a link. Pick #35.http://www.visi.com/~lazlo/liz/lyrics.html
>
> > Why do you think this is weird? Lots of guys like smart women.
>
> More guys like models with giant breasts and little enough brain not to question why they hang around with such men. Trust me.I know, I know... but do you actually feel "weird" for liking smart women? How about feeling a little pride that you're not completely shallow?
>
> >Lots of people have strange taste in looks too.
>
> Ain't that the truth!! :-)
> Hanging out in the airport or the mall is a *riot*.I knew a guy in college who actually thought the sexiest woman was Larraine Neumann. Remember her from the original SNL? Tall, anorexic-thin, big nose, nasal voice, frizzy hair. You just never know.
>
> Because *so many* men want uncomplicated sex and too many women are willing to provide it.Right, but being willing to provide it is not the same as wanting it. I think we're in agreement on this, though it seems like we're going back and forth.
>I'm sorry... I was raised differently. I only visited a bar once in my life. My lifetime consumption of beer is under 2 liters.Oh, so that's why you're such a naughty boy online. Compensation for a lifetime of proper behavior. :-)
> She's a woman, though, so she'll probably still be pissed.Yeah, I would be. Really I just wondered if you had some kind of open marriage, because of your comments about not minding if she had an affair. (I'm still reserving my right be be skeptical about whether you'd REALLY not mind.)
>
> > Phil! OMG! I forgot about Phil! Now I've probably ruined my chances with him :(
>
> Either that or your chances have dramatically improved! :-) Just show him your thong and see what happens. :-)I know there was a post about Phil and thongs. Well, here's on of those strange babble moments, I'm about to put "Phil thong" into the search engine...
(several minutes later)
...No luck. Not even with just "thong". Ever notice that search thing doesn't seem to find stuff? Really, I swear there was a post about Phil walking around town in a thong, cowboy hat, and flip-flops. I could not be making this up.
>
> Ok, ok. Just be careful and most of all, HAVE FUN! Flirting is fun, especially in public with strangers. Just be careful with them.Thanks for the concern. Just did a whole therapy session on overcoming shyness. Maybe I"ll make some progress in the "real" world.
So, Ted, just one more question...
Do you still respect me?
Tabby.
Posted by Ted on September 4, 2002, at 10:58:41
In reply to Re: Shhh!, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 4, 2002, at 2:09:31
Hi Tabitha,
> Perhaps our 2 days are up. Starting to get complicated. ;-)
Yeah, ok, if you say so. Sniff.
> So are you OK if there's a dog in the room? Just... watching?
As long as he/she doesn't say anything. I don't want the dog giving me advice on lovemaking. :-)
(a former secretary has funny stories to tell about her dog, her bedroom, and her various boyfriends).>.... but do you actually feel "weird" for liking smart women?
Remember the "bad boy" syndrome so many women have? I have always felt weird for liking women more for their minds than their looks. I had a girlfriend once who was on the low end of average looks who was smart, nice, and fun. My mother was on my ass every day because "she wasn't pretty enough and nobody cares about how smart a woman is" .... (Well, I ignored my mother and that girlfriend eventually dumped me). WAY TOO MANY times people are pre-judged based upon looks, social class, job function, etc. I broke the protocol, so I was the odd one out.
>How about feeling a little pride that you're not completely shallow?
I grew up dysfunctionally. I don't know what pride is or how it feels. All I know is how others appear to accept me and my actions.
> So, Ted, just one more question...
>
> Do you still respect me?Of course I do. I never disrespected you.
Ted
Posted by Ted on September 4, 2002, at 11:10:42
In reply to Re: and the $600 question... Ted..., posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 4, 2002, at 1:11:11
Hi Tabby,
> OK, so it's who you feel safe in opening up to. Excuse my probing, but surely it couldn't just be anyone? Doesn't your loved one need some unique qualities?
She somehow (and I can't describe just how) has to have the personality that is comforting and trusting enough to allow me to open up. I can't sense threat of any kind. I dunno. Geez -- your worse than my therapist. Wanna job? You're *good*.
>Once again I failed to be special enough to make daddy stay. Boy is that an awful feeling.
We all had different childhood difficulties. Your parents apparently split up and you blamed yourself. In my case, my parents are still married after 55 years. However, I received ZERO emotional support or companionship when growing up. My parents don't know me nor do I know them. For me, it is fear of simple abandonment, fear of simple loneliness.
>The actual loss of the relationship is pretty minor in comparison.
Actually, that part is sometimes desirable. :-)
> Your wife must be lucky to have snagged her dream man first thing!
To be perfectly honest, I think she went for "good enough" or "less bad than the others" rather than "dream man" or "soul mate". She grew up in a vastly more dysfunctional family than me.
> No test, sincere question. Thanks for your thoughts.
You're welcome.
> >How do I collect my $600?
>
> ulp, um, er, the check's in the mail.Yeah, yeah.... :-)
Ted
Posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 5, 2002, at 4:40:16
In reply to Re: and the $600 question... Ted... » ~~tabitha~~, posted by Ted on September 4, 2002, at 11:10:42
>
> She somehow (and I can't describe just how) has to have the personality that is comforting and trusting enough to allow me to open up. I can't sense threat of any kind. I dunno. Geez -- your worse than my therapist. Wanna job? You're *good*.
Oops, didn't mean to slip into therapist mode. TOtal flirtation killer :(What you say jives with something I read somewhere about men vs women, and who falls in love more. It said that men fall in love hard when they find a woman they can open up to, like you describe. So maybe you're more ordinary guy than you think.
I tend to go more for men I can look up to, but it's usually a false kind of looking up to that I create myself. Then I get disillusioned and lose all desire. As far as being accepting toward a man, I don't think I"ve ever honestly felt that way. I'm too defensive with them. I assume if I give them acceptance they'll take advantage of me.WHen I try to think who I've felt safe with, the only person is my therapist. I'm not in love with her at all though. I know lots of people get transference, but I haven't. Had one male friend that I felt pretty safe with, and that was the one that was hardest to get over after it ended. I don't feel safe with people usually. I feel very restricted, unless drunk or manic.
>
> We all had different childhood difficulties. Your parents apparently split up and you blamed yourself. In my case, my parents are still married after 55 years. However, I received ZERO emotional support or companionship when growing up.I'm sorry to hear that. Were you an only child? My childhood was similarly lonely. THere was a weird closeness with my mom though, but not in a healthy way. I have read that neglect is more damaging than abuse, but I resist accepting that.
>
> To be perfectly honest, I think she went for "good enough" or "less bad than the others" rather than "dream man" or "soul mate". She grew up in a vastly more dysfunctional family than me.Must hurt to think that you were not her first choice. Uh-oh, therapist mode again.
-----------------------
Well Ted I don't know if all this flirtation has been just a moodswing for me or not, but it sure cheered me up this weekend. I went clothes shopping and am doing "the girl thing" again. I've been in total non-sexual mode for a couple years, so maybe it's just time to get back into it.T
Posted by Ted on September 5, 2002, at 10:58:45
In reply to Re: and the $600 question... Ted... » Ted, posted by ~~tabitha~~ on September 5, 2002, at 4:40:16
> Oops, didn't mean to slip into therapist mode. TOtal flirtation killer :(
Yikes! sorry.>So maybe you're more ordinary guy than you think.
In some way, yes, but on average? I don't think so.
> I tend to go more for men I can look up to
For the father figure you lost?
> Had one male friend that I felt pretty safe with, and that was the one that was hardest to get over after it ended.
See what I mean?
> Were you an only child?
No, but I might as well have been. I was the youngest of four: brother 11-1/2 years older and two sisters 10 and 5-1/2 years older. By the time I came around (I tell my parents I must have been the "mistake" by the way I was raised), my parents had seen and done it all and had lost interest in parenting. They were too busy pampering my brother and oldest sister. FWIW, the younger of my sisters is, like me, bipolar and socially messed up, though she is in *major* denial. She is currently on her 4th husband.
>I have read that neglect is more damaging than abuse, but I resist accepting that.
Ditto. It's bad, but I don't believe it's worse.
Then again, abuse, with loving support afterwards, has a chance to be cured. Neglect provides no models for love, companionship, etc. and causes lifelong harm.
>THere was a weird closeness with my mom though
My biggest problem was my mother. I couldn't wait until I finished university (I lived at home) and could drive 1000 miles away. I think my parents feel the same way: They only visit California every 5-6 years and have seen their grandson in his own home only twice. They will drive long distances to visit my siblings and to visit Mexico, though, so I can see where I fit in their priorities. BTW: My son is the youngest of their 7 grandchildren (+ 3 step-grandchildren) (the oldest is 20 years older) so it is another one of those BTDT things for them.
> Must hurt to think that you were not her first choice.
Nope. Because I was *the* choice. She had many offers, but as she describes it, they were all *much* worse than me. (I point out to her that she doesn't say I was "much better" than the others. But my wife had a particularly poor and distant relationship with her father and brother).
> -----------------------
> Well Ted I don't know if all this flirtation has been just a moodswing for me or not, but it sure cheered me up this weekend. I went clothes shopping and am doing "the girl thing" again. I've been in total non-sexual mode for a couple years, so maybe it's just time to get back into it.Woo-hoo! Go for it! I hope you do well!
Ted
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