![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 21:46:39
I've been in recovery from addiction for almost 22 years. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder in 1999, about a year after I got back fro a tour of duty in Korea. The last thing I wanted to do was take meds. I was afraid I wouldn't be "clean" anymore.
After much prayer and meditation I decided I was still clean. I think I've been depressed my whole life. I used drugs to hide it and hide from it. Medicine, religion, and psychiatry may not not be sufficient for us to stay clean, but they are not useless either. I've had to examine why I take drugs now as well as how I take them. I take A-Ds because without them the hole can get very deep and very dark. I accept that I am an addict. I also accept that I have depression. A-Ds help keep depression under control for me. They are not "happy pills", I don't get high with them.
I've taken prescribed pain meds for sugeries and have had injections in my back to help keep a bulging disc under control. The difference is that now I take meds like they are prescribed and only for the bare minimum amount of time. I don't read "take 1 every hours" to mean "take 4 every hour until you blackout."
I think medical science and technology are gifts. They help me have a better life. I am grateful for them. I am still clean.
take care
Jim
Posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2003, at 22:16:14
In reply to Recovery and prescription meds, posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 21:46:39
I always think of it like this.. to be 'clean' is to have brain chemistry that's in the range of normal.. not sped up, not slowed down, not hallucinating, not manic, not severely depressed. For some of us, we need meds to get to normal brain chemistry, so we're much more clean and sober on meds than off them.
Posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 22:57:45
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2003, at 22:16:14
> I always think of it like this.. to be 'clean' is to have brain chemistry that's in the range of normal.. not sped up, not slowed down, not hallucinating, not manic, not severely depressed. For some of us, we need meds to get to normal brain chemistry, so we're much more clean and sober on meds than off them.
Tabitha...what a cool name:-) Nicely put. I heard a speaker at a convetion say messing with our meds was like self medicating. I never thought of it like that before.
Take care
Jim
Posted by galkeepinon on September 9, 2003, at 0:33:34
In reply to Recovery and prescription meds, posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 21:46:39
Posted by galkeepinon on September 9, 2003, at 0:35:43
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2003, at 22:16:14
Tabitha, this makes such sense. I feel this way too. I had a hard time accepting I may have some sort of chemical imbalance~I didn't believe in that. But now I do.
> I always think of it like this.. to be 'clean' is to have brain chemistry that's in the range of normal.. not sped up, not slowed down, not hallucinating, not manic, not severely depressed. For some of us, we need meds to get to normal brain chemistry, so we're much more clean and sober on meds than off them.
Posted by hog80ci on September 9, 2003, at 18:18:15
In reply to Good for You Jim! :-) (nm) » hog80ci, posted by galkeepinon on September 9, 2003, at 0:33:34
Thanks but I had a lot of help. It's easier for me to be loaded than not. If left to my own devices I would not be here today, I'm sure of that.
Take care
Jim
Posted by Arrianna on September 10, 2003, at 12:44:16
In reply to Recovery and prescription meds, posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 21:46:39
Jim,
So glad for you!! It sounds like it took you quite a long time to accept your depression and treatment for it.
I know we've posted about this before, yet, it doesn't hurt to continue. Just seems were in the same boat. It also took me some time to accept help with medication. I thought I'd become dependent on an AD, and that wouldn't be of help since I was in recovery.
I'm so glad there were others to help me to realize that the AD's were on are to help us get better, not to harm us, like our other alternatives!
Like you, the Lex. is helping me to live recovery to the fullest and to make positive changes in my life. I've been to that 'dark hole' you talk about- thought I could pull myself out on my own. Nope, had to reach for the rope given by someone else.
Happy for You,
Arriann
Posted by madwand on September 10, 2003, at 14:09:06
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » hog80ci, posted by Arrianna on September 10, 2003, at 12:44:16
I am another one of those (11 years sobriety this last August). When I first got sober I had a "sense" that I would benefit from ADs but got touted off of it onto Other Approaches by the somewhat-negative outlike that recovery had on them.
Some of those Other Approaches took me in interesting directions and I thank a Higher Power for them (as they were part of my path). However, one thing I finally realized that there was another factor keeping me away from the AD route -- ego. I definitely "took" to the spiritual aspects of the program and they really helped (still do!), but there was this notion that if I accepted further help from ADs then everyone would ascribe my spritual progress to the meds!
Ah yes -- good old pride and ego! They can really sneak up on you (at least on me). And I now realize that asking a Higher Power for help does not preclude that that help can come in the form of medication! I have lost count of the time that I have told the "eskimo" story to people (or the similar story of the old man in the flood), and here I was falling into the same trap!
Of course, I am seeing this from 20/20 hindsight. It took a non-depression diagnosis (which is still up in the air -- a migraine-like thing) to get me on Lexapro. I guess HP knew that I needed to be there and that I was not quite ready to make the leap past pride.
Posted by hog80ci on September 10, 2003, at 21:16:53
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » hog80ci, posted by Arrianna on September 10, 2003, at 12:44:16
> Jim,
>
> So glad for you!! It sounds like it took you quite a long time to accept your depression and treatment for it.
>
> I know we've posted about this before, yet, it doesn't hurt to continue. Just seems were in the same boat. It also took me some time to accept help with medication. I thought I'd become dependent on an AD, and that wouldn't be of help since I was in recovery.
>
> I'm so glad there were others to help me to realize that the AD's were on are to help us get better, not to harm us, like our other alternatives!
>
> Like you, the Lex. is helping me to live recovery to the fullest and to make positive changes in my life. I've been to that 'dark hole' you talk about- thought I could pull myself out on my own. Nope, had to reach for the rope given by someone else.
>
> Happy for You,
> ArriannThanks Arriann
You know...I just put the original post out there to share. I wasn't trying to be arrogant or anything. I'm really grateful for people like you and the others who post here. To me, it's all about acceptance and surrender; two very hard concepts for me. I'm a lot better at self centeredness and righteous indignation. For a long time I was too proud to admit I needed help. Now I'm really glad it's there.
I'm off to Oregon for a few days. Need to get away from the Phoenix heat! I'll check in when I get back.
Take care
Jim
Posted by MysticalMeds on September 13, 2003, at 9:25:28
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2003, at 22:16:14
> I always think of it like this.. to be 'clean' is to have brain chemistry that's in the range of normal.. not sped up, not slowed down, not hallucinating, not manic, not severely depressed. For some of us, we need meds to get to normal brain chemistry, so we're much more clean and sober on meds than off them.
I really like to think this way and a lot of the time I do. I often wonder if the meds are taking away some of the depth of experience life has to offer. Off meds things have a feeling of being much more real and significant, although perhaps part of the problem is that things seem TOO significant and that can take me into downward spirals of depression. so i wonder where, how, and when (if ever) i will find the comfortable medium between a real authentic and deep experience of life(that i find off meds), and having a positive, balanced, optimistic and in-control experience (that i have with meds) (i take effexor and wellbutrin). its a fascinating thing for me to think about, but i've rarely found any writing about it. i feel a lot of it has to do with the extent to which we identify with our cognitions vs. our feelings =)
Posted by Arrianna on September 13, 2003, at 16:40:05
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » Tabitha, posted by MysticalMeds on September 13, 2003, at 9:25:28
Was really glad to read your post!!
I've been wondering the exact same thing. On meds, I feel balanced, happy, and comfortable. Yet, off meds, I feel more mentally alert, etc. I also don't quite feel myself at times on Lexapro (10mg is what I'm on).
I wish I had the answer regarding this, but I'm just wondering as you are. Last night, I forgot to take my Lexapro, and this morning I awoke feeling so mentally alert and full energy unlike the usual grogginess I feel in the morning when I take my med. Yet, I experienced alot of irritability over the smallest things. I also felt my anxiety creeping up unlike when I've taken my dose. Anyway, took my dose, and my peace and serenity have come back. So, for now, I'll stick with my lexapro and put up with the occasional grogginess and "not so myself" feeling!
Would be interested in hearing more about this.
Again, thanks for bringing this up!!
Take it easy,
Arrianna
Posted by galkeepinon on September 15, 2003, at 3:56:35
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » Tabitha, posted by MysticalMeds on September 13, 2003, at 9:25:28
Hi all, I found this on the net last night. It has a lot to say.
Enjoy..............
Posted by Simcha on September 15, 2003, at 20:22:43
In reply to Recovery and prescription meds, posted by hog80ci on September 8, 2003, at 21:46:39
Jim,
It took me six years in recovery to get to a point where I was ready to take medication. I resisted because in recovery I was told to stay away from anti-depressants.
I think that there is much more understanding these days. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when my anti-med therapist told me to go to the doctor because I was not eating (I lost 15 pounds in like two weeks), I was not sleeping at night, I slept all day, I was unemployed, and I was unable to look for work. I went to my gp and he was overjoyed that I finally was willing to take medication for my Major Depressive Disorder. He had suggested medication a year before that and I told him, "H**l no."
Well that started my climb out of life-long depression. I don't ever remember not being depressed. I thought everyone did not want to wake up in the morning and that everyone would rather be dead than alive. Well, in my family that is normal.
Finally I realize that I have an imbalanced brain chemistry without medications. I still want to be off of the meds. I just know that life was unlivable three years ago. It took me a paralyzing Major Depressive Episode to finally ask for proper help. This is the way it was with the addiction too.
I will never let some 12-step Nazi sponsor brainwash me into believing fear-based propaganda that says that meds are evil. I now realize that it is fear, projection, and ignorance that drive some of my fellow 12-steppers to insist that medication is evil. I find that I need to stand up for myself in my programs now that I know better. I hang out with the winners who accept me the way I am.
It is up to me to take care of myself. It's unfortunate that I went to people who initially could not help me with my depression. It fed my addiction so much. Now I'm more sober than ever. It's a blessing.
One Day At A Time,
Simcha
Posted by hog80ci on September 16, 2003, at 19:11:12
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » hog80ci, posted by Simcha on September 15, 2003, at 20:22:43
Thanks Simcha
Since I started on meds and have become more open about it, I've found lots of people in recovery who are also taking ADs. Like you, my clean time is better on them than off. I still struggle with thinking I'll have to take a little white pill for the rest of my life, but just for today it works.
Take care
Jim
Posted by Tony P on September 17, 2003, at 20:07:36
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » hog80ci, posted by Simcha on September 15, 2003, at 20:22:43
It took me two years in recovery to get to the point of _just wondering_ whether I might be depressed AS WELL. I went in fear and trembling to my counsellor and doctor - both said "no risk for chemical dependency on these meds". And so it proved, although I still felt guilty for about a year, as Rx meds had been a big part of my addiction at one time.
Now I understand it's become a common dual diagnosis - depression AND addiction disorder - two separate but highly interactive diseases.
Ten years ago, I found plenty of "NAzis" around the relevant twelve-step program. Nowadays, I find many of my fellow-sufferers are also on A/D and are quite willing to talk about it at meetings - or especially over coffee afterwards!
At a treatment centre last year, I wanted to wean off all meds, but was told by the staff psychiatrist, "Not a chance. You've had at least one major depressive episode. If you go off A/D, you are endangering your recovery". Just one Pdoc's opinion about one person, and I would still like to learn what Tony is like now off A/D's. But I am back in early recovery (39 days!), so I am not about to rock the boat. I am uncomfortable with being on even a low dose of Valium (10mg/day) and sleeping pills (Zopiclone), but my doc & I have agreed to go v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y at reducing my meds, with my base A/D, Serzone, the last to go.
Not all A/D's are equally safe (IMHO) for those of us with addiction issues, but I'll start a new thread for that.
Tony
> Simcha wrote:
> It took me six years in recovery to get to a point where I was ready to take medication. I resisted because in recovery I was told to stay away from anti-depressants.
> [snipped]
> I will never let some 12-step Nazi sponsor brainwash me into believing fear-based propaganda that says that meds are evil. I now realize that it is fear, projection, and ignorance that drive some of my fellow 12-steppers to insist that medication is evil. I find that I need to stand up for myself in my programs now that I know better. I hang out with the winners who accept me the way I am.
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 20, 2003, at 9:36:57
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » hog80ci, posted by Simcha on September 15, 2003, at 20:22:43
> I will never let some 12-step Nazi sponsor brainwash me into believing fear-based propaganda that says that meds are evil. I now realize that it is fear, projection, and ignorance that drive some of my fellow 12-steppers to insist that medication is evil. I find that I need to stand up for myself in my programs now that I know better. I hang out with the winners who accept me the way I am.
I have never understood what is up with the anti-med faction within the 12-step programs. The decision to medicate or not is one to be made by the individual.
Depressed people are up to 12 times more likely to self-medicate with alcohol or street drugs than are non-depressed people. Schizophrenics, up to 15 times more likely. Getting clean and sober does not address the mental health issues.
When I was one year into recovery, I had an excruciatingly painful joint surgery. My physiotherapy went on for 18 months, and I didn't go anywhere without opiate painkillers. I went to Narcotics Anonymous meetings with full knowledge that I was carrying with me substances that others in the room had abused. I took them to take the edge off my pain, not to get a buzz. In fact, if I got a buzz, I knew I could reduce my dose. It was just part of a medical problem that I had to deal with. I never let anyone know I was "carrying" at meetings. I only talked about it after I no longer needed them.
When some people heard that I had used opiates, they tried to convince me that I had been using, that I had lost my clean time. Bollocks. It was a matter between me and my Higher Power, and I was very clear on the decisions I made on a daily basis. When my pain subsided, I stopped using the opiates. No withdrawal. No issues of addiction. No denial. No craving. And nobody else's business.
The same issues arose around my major depression, treated with prescription meds. And my insomnia, also treated with prescription meds (again, the same sort that others in the rooms had abused). So long as I used my meds as prescribed, it was not affecting my clean time. It's not up to anybody else to tell me if I'm clean or not. I know.
There's a residential recovery home in town, and it's supervised by an AA Nazi nick-named Gestapo Al. He places prescription meds under lock and key (for good reason, obviously), but then he resorts to deception and tricks and outright manipulation to keep the residents from getting their meds as prescribed. I had to take one schizophrenic/alcoholic resident to the emergency room for an injection of Haldol because he began to decompensate after being denied his antipsychotic meds for eight straight days. I cannot fathom the logic behind people like this "addictions counsellor" (used loosely, here).
The appropriateness of the use of psychoactive substances, whether street or prescribed, is to be determined by the individual. No one can tell you if your use is appropriate or not. That is why the steps were created, so you can figure that out for yourself.
Lar
Posted by madwand on September 20, 2003, at 11:06:53
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » Simcha, posted by Larry Hoover on September 20, 2003, at 9:36:57
Thank you! That is one of the more enlightened shares on the subject of meds and recovery that I have encountered.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 22, 2003, at 18:38:15
In reply to Re: Recovery and prescription meds » Simcha, posted by Larry Hoover on September 20, 2003, at 9:36:57
Posted by Phil on October 7, 2003, at 15:26:35
In reply to VERY INTERESTING READ ABOUT THE ABOVE:-), posted by galkeepinon on September 15, 2003, at 3:56:35
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Substance Use | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.