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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Simcha on September 17, 2003, at 19:40:57
This is a direct quote from "Addicted to online porn" found here:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/443437.asp?cp1=1
"Dr. Robert Hsiung agrees that there are healthy ways to use cybersex. "I don’t think that any involvement is bad," said Hsiung, an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Chicago. "If a couple surfs together and it turns them on and helps their sex life, I don’t see any problem with that."
Dr. Bob, your second statement is OK. The first one is way out of line with research and personal experience in the field of Sex Addiction.
Perhaps you have a lack of education about Sex Addiction and how Sex Addicts use porn to check out of life with disasterous consequences. I suggest you pick up a few books by Patrick Carnes Ph.D. He just released a new one on Internet Porn. You might find that enlightening. (see below)
Also, I know that you have access to many 12-step meetings in your area. I began my own recovery in Chicago. Try Sexaholics Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, and Sexual Compulsives Anonymous. It's doctors like you that provide no help to people like me. In fact if I would have listened to doctors like you I would be dead by now. I'm certain of that.
Sex Addiction is no lauging matter. It's not anything to be taken lightly. It destroys lives and kills people through diseases like HIV/AIDS. It kills people who make bad decisions and take up with nasty people for a sexual hit only to be killed during the act. This has happened to people I know with whom I've been in recovery.
Personally I find your statements way out of line and detrimental to your own clients. I suggest you get an education on Sex Addiction.
By the way, this is why I'm specializing as a Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in treating Sex Addiction. There aren't enough people out there to help those who suffer. Please get an education before you cause more harm.
Books by Patrick Carnes:
"In the Shadows of the Net: Breaking Free of Compulsive Online Sexual Behavior"
"Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction"
"Facing the Shadow: Starting Sexual and Relationship Recovery"
"Clinical Management of Sex Addiction"
"Contrary to Love: Helping the Sexual Addict"
"Don't Call It Love: Recovery from Sexual Addiction"
"Sexual Anorexia: Overcoming Sexual Self-Hatred""Start with those titles. I can give you more references if you want. Please get this education.
Blessings,
Simcha
Posted by Tony P on September 17, 2003, at 21:14:21
In reply to Dr. Bob's Position on Internet Porn is Disturbing., posted by Simcha on September 17, 2003, at 19:40:57
While I have no problem with Dr. Bob's opinion as quoted, I certainly want to second Simcha's excellent post on the seriousness of sex addiction.
Both the treatment centre I attended last year and recent Narcotics Anonymous literature emphasize the unitary nature of Addiction Disorder as a single disease manifested in different ways. My primary addiction is to Rx and OTC drugs, but I have come to see other compulsions in my life (e.g. workaholic, eating disorders, net-surfing, and, yes, sex) as just another manifestation of my disease.
As I am currently without a partner, my sexual activity is confined to me and the internet, so no other people (or small animals!) are directly hurt. Without going into gory detail, suffice it to say that I see this as a destructive and addictive activity for me as (1) it is compulsive, i.e. I can resolve not to and then break that resolution an hour later; (2) it uses up hours of time when I should be doing more productive things - or sleeping; (3) some things I do are potentially physically harmful to me.
I am able to deal with all these compulsions in the context of NA's 12-step program "We ... were powerless over our addiction...." (not just over drugs). Many of my fellow addicts have similar cross-addictions to behaviours. The worst thing is that when I clean up from drugs, those other compulsions are all too ready to step in to fill the gap! I have considered also joining another 12-step program more specifically dealing with sex issues; I had not realized there were so many - thank you Simcha!
Tony P
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 17, 2003, at 21:58:44
In reply to Dr. Bob's Position on Internet Porn is Disturbing., posted by Simcha on September 17, 2003, at 19:40:57
> "Dr. Robert Hsiung agrees that there are healthy ways to use cybersex. "I don’t think that any involvement is bad," said Hsiung...
What I said was that I didn't think *all* involvement was bad, or that involvement was *necessarily* bad. That there *are* healthy ways, not that *every* way is healthy.
Bob
Posted by Simcha on September 17, 2003, at 23:17:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on cybersex, posted by Dr. Bob on September 17, 2003, at 21:58:44
Dr. Bob,
Thanks for the reply. They really did you a disservice to quote you like that. It gives the wrong impression. Thanks again.
Blessings,
Simcha> > "Dr. Robert Hsiung agrees that there are healthy ways to use cybersex. "I don’t think that any involvement is bad," said Hsiung...
>
> What I said was that I didn't think *all* involvement was bad, or that involvement was *necessarily* bad. That there *are* healthy ways, not that *every* way is healthy.
>
> Bob
Posted by shar on September 18, 2003, at 12:46:19
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on cybersex, posted by Simcha on September 17, 2003, at 23:17:57
The post that originally 'quoted' Dr. Bob was one of a series posted by one person who said and did things (aimed at Bob) that were definitely not supportive. I think the posts are gone now, but it was apparent the person had a goal to diss Bob and stir things up on the boards.
Misquotes are a great way to do that when one can't come right out and do a regular flame.
Shar
Posted by stjames on September 18, 2003, at 12:51:17
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on Internet Porn is Disturbing., posted by Tony P on September 17, 2003, at 21:14:21
While I have no problem with Dr. Bob's opinion as quoted, I certainly want to second Simcha's excellent post on the seriousness of sex addiction.
However it seem to me Simcha is generalizing
in assuming all internet porn indicates a sex addiction.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 14:16:43
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on Internet Porn is Disturbing., posted by stjames on September 18, 2003, at 12:51:17
> However it seem to me Simcha is generalizing
> in assuming all internet porn indicates a sex addiction.
---------------Anybody seen this movie? Sex addicts are such because they have a lot of sex, pornography being incidental, imho.
I felt so sorry for Carpie when he got fired for color-blindness. :(
Posted by Simcha on September 19, 2003, at 1:46:10
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on Internet Porn is Disturbing., posted by stjames on September 18, 2003, at 12:51:17
If you look at the original post I posted you will see that I actually agreed with Dr. Bob on his second statement that in the context of a relationship a little Internet Porn may not be a bad thing at all for the relationship. For me the real issue is how I have used porn. That was not healthy for me. It was isolating for me. It was not in a context of a relationship and it wasted tons of time. I've never used porn in a relationship because of my history. Others don't have the same relationship to porn I've had. So, I think that once Dr. Bob clarified it for me, his statement, I find his position much better. I think that msn quoted him out of context and the quote was misleading in the way they used it.
Blessings,
Simcha
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 11:33:16
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob's Position on cybersex, posted by Dr. Bob on September 17, 2003, at 21:58:44
Actually, I liked Dr. Bob's quote in that article. He was the only doctor that didn't demonize the whole idea of internet porn or blow it way out of proportion. He seemed to provide a balance that was sadly lacking in the rest of the article.
I never like the idea of the government intruding into my private life and telling me what sexual activities are and aren't "acceptable". As long as consenting adults are involved, it's no one else's concern. And those alarmist studies on porn, internet or otherwise, are used by governmental agencies to provide legitimacy to laws that are based on personal morality being foisted onto the public, not on genuine public policy issues.
While it's true that some people use porn in an unhealthy way, it's also true that some people use food in an unhealthy way. I wouldn't want bread and butter outlawed just because I make myself fat and jeopardize my health on it (which I do daily).
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 11:42:24
In reply to Auto Focus, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 18, 2003, at 14:16:43
I found that film soooo depressing. I was madly in love with Bob Crane as a preteen/teen. I got the chance to go see his play and get his autograph. I had heard on the game show "Tattletales" (am I dating myself here?) that he was a breast man. So I searched high and low for a dress with a plunging neckline. Hard to come by in sizes made for girls who had not yet reached puberty (including myself). :) I've got a photo of the two of us blown up poster size. Me in my not very plunging neckline (not that it mattered at my age) and him with his famous grin.
Pornography obviously played some part in his escalating activities, although the easy access to casual sex that came with his celebrity obviously had a much bigger part. I wish he had had the insight to see that he had a problem and to seek help for it. :(
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 19, 2003, at 13:33:43
In reply to Re: Auto Focus » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 11:42:24
>I've got a photo of the two of us blown up poster size. Me in my not very plunging neckline (not that it mattered at my age) and him with his famous grin.
------------Crazy. Was he a nice guy in person? The film made him seem like an otherwise very affable, good guy. I wonder what inclines one to develop such an all-consuming habit. Beyond the sex, he didn't drink or do drugs, so he didn't appear to have an addicitive personality in general.
Having no opinion of Bob Crane when I rented the movie, it didn't really bother me. It's sad that he was killed, but if the movie is accurate, he was pretty sociopathic in his relationships, so I'm sure he upset enough people.
Willem Defoe did a great job. hard to imagine he played Jesus. It was neat how the camera became increasingly unsteady throughout the film. It just kind of creeps up on you.
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 13:56:08
In reply to Re: Auto Focus » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on September 19, 2003, at 13:33:43
He was as charming in person as you would have expected. He was kind and patient with an infatuated adolescent. He started to give me a chaste kiss on the cheek, but I swung around and got him full on the mouth. :)
My understanding is that he was pretty open about what he did. And overall I try to keep a picture of him as a decent enough guy who just had a problem.
Posted by shar on September 19, 2003, at 22:21:28
In reply to Food for Thought, Grammar and Jayson Blair » Reaper, posted by Susan J on September 19, 2003, at 21:32:35
Susan,
You are so right about things being misquoted. When I did my dissertation, I had to find the *original* articles (because of the type of analysis and some went back to the 1940's) and I couldn't just refer to literature reviews and what they said (which would have been acceptable to my committee wrt the older articles). This was a psych study, btw.It floored me how absolutely convoluted study results became over time, as they were quoted, then slightly misquoted, then, eventually barely resembled the original findings. It shocked me, and cranked up my "don't believe everything you hear/read" meter significantly.
Shar
Posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:37:13
In reply to Re: Food for Thought, Grammar and Jayson Blair » Susan J, posted by shar on September 19, 2003, at 22:21:28
My post that you are replying to isn't here anymore...does that mean I'm blocked? Cuz if I am, I don't know about it...
Advice?
Thanks,
Susan
Posted by madwand on September 22, 2003, at 15:07:15
In reply to What happened? » shar, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:37:13
Susan,
This got kicked around over the weekend in Admin. The policy is to delete subsequent messages from known blocked posters and any messages responding to that person on that thread.
However, Dr. Bob confirmed that if you really wish to respond to such a note, the "protected" way to do it is to start a separate thread in which to do it. Those will be left alone (of course, civility rules still apply).
Am sure Dinah will correct me if I have gotten it wrong :)
Posted by shar on September 25, 2003, at 23:17:37
In reply to What happened? » shar, posted by Susan J on September 22, 2003, at 10:37:13
Advice I have not.
You and madwand probably know more about it than I do!
Shar
> My post that you are replying to isn't here anymore...does that mean I'm blocked? Cuz if I am, I don't know about it...
>
> Advice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Susan
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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