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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by platinumbride on September 27, 2003, at 10:42:38
I am addicted to the nice mellow feeling I get from klonopin and/or neurontin. I can't give them up. I mean I need them for anxiety, but not to get high because I am too chicken to go out and cop weed!!! I don't really like alcohol...I should check into the Betty Ford Clinic or something....anyone else abuse such pathetic drugs to get through a day?? I can't even drive as a result!
Posted by Simcha on September 27, 2003, at 12:45:14
In reply to klonopin and neurontin, posted by platinumbride on September 27, 2003, at 10:42:38
I have a couple of questions for you since I've been on Klonopin and currently I'm on Neurontin.
How much Klonopin are you using each day?
How much Neurontin are you using each day?
I think that the dosages would be important to know because Klonopin can create biological dependency at high doses. It seems that the threshold for high doses is different for everyone. I never used more than 1mg per day. When it came time to leave the Klonopin behind in favor of the Neurontin it was easy for me to get off of Klonopin. I was using Klonopin for more than a year. I think dosage and duration of use have much to do with dependency experiences.
I've never heard of being addicted to Neurontin. I'm curious about your experience since I'm now on this instead of the Klonopin.
I need the Neurontin to take care of teeth grinding and restless legs at night when I sleep. Klonopin used to do the trick. The current psychiatrist decided to switch me to Neurontin because it does not interfere with sleep architecture. I've been an insomniac most of my life. Neurontin at 600mg at night seems to take care of teeth grinding. It does not make me sleepy anymore. That side effect has worn off.
The conditions for which I've been treated with Klonopin and now with Neurontin are anxiety disorders. To me I know that there is a difference between medical dependency and addiction.
For me the difference is that I need the Neurontin and I needed the Klonopin to treat a physical condition. These drugs helped me to get to a baseline in my anxiety levels where I could sleep well like most people. I feel that if I were to increase my dose independently and seek more of either drug, this would indicate addiction for me.
I know this does not apply to everyone. I know that there are cycles for people who have Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I know that people who experience this have times where they need more of whatever drug they are using to get through the day. I'd be very careful in calling these people addicts. Then again, I believe the real test is if the drug is interfering with someone's life.
You have talked about how these drugs have made it impossible to drive. I experienced slower reflexes on Klonopin. I had a few accidents on Klonopin. Probably I should have not have been driving. On Neurontin I don't experience this to the same degree.
Then again I did rear-end someone the other day. There was no damage and she and I talked and we decided not to exchange info or call the police. (Here in California the police do not get involved unless the damage is greater than $500 and/or there are injuries.) Well, it was an honest mistake and she was fine and so was her car. It was a tap. It is a reminder to me to really watch myself on the road because I'm on medications which might interfere with my driving. My Celexa and the Neurontin have warnings about driving. Unfortunately I need the car to get to work and school. Therefore there is not much of a choice about driving.
I hope you find what you need here. I know it is hell to abuse substances. If it were me I would go to a psychiatrist to get an evaluation. There are other meds for anxiety which may not cause addiction for you like Buspar. I'm not a doctor or an expert so take this with a grain of salt.
Blessings,
Simcha
Posted by platinumbride on September 30, 2003, at 9:11:36
In reply to Re: klonopin and neurontin » platinumbride, posted by Simcha on September 27, 2003, at 12:45:14
Simcha..
My problem here is that since I have lost the career that I worked for all of my life and because I went through a depression that,even though I am mostly out of, I prefer to "get high" or really "mellow" from high, high, high doses of neurontin and klonopin, rather than face the incredible anxiety of dealing with the hoplesness my life has turned into. I am in therapy, and I DO talk about all of this, but until I either give up the dream that I pursued my entire life,(please do not say that I must follow my dream.....it is not as easy as that.....it is in the performing arts and so competetive that almost everyone I know at my age is dealing with the same issues) decide to go back into the ring, or find asomewhat satisfying career in a differnt field, I will just continue to sit around and abuse prescrition drugs.I am newly married and my husband is working on a project in a very economically depressed area. Wildly enough, an area where my father used to live...an area where I did my operatic training ...and area I had hoped to leave once we were married, because we do not live here!!!
I have made some lame attempts at getting a dumb job that I will hate just to bring some money in, because my lack of contribution is costing my husband a mint, but no dice. I sit in our hotel room, contemplate whether or not I will let the housekeeper come in,and take my drugs. At least then I do not have to face my life. Sometimes I even get ideas about what I will do with my life. "I will lose weight, retrain my voice and get back into singing professionally.....oh...but that costs money and inevitable rejection...." "I will teach something...anything but music....I will finish my Masters in Education"....Yeah right....Better to sit around and take drugs as long as I can.So Simcha, I am in a position way differnt than you are. I am effectively a junkie. I would prefer my life not to be this way, but I am stuck in a crappy pattern.
I am sorry that I have ranted and cried in my beer to you and everyone on this board, but I guess I wanted to explain that I am really abusing drugs and why.As for what you described, it seems to me that you will have to incrementally increase your neurontin dose. I know I had to. The good news is that I went up very high, but then was able to taper down again and get the same effects! I mean I had to go to 4800 mgs and now I can take 1200 and be OK with anxiety or sleep. I couldn't believe it. As for driving, pay no attention to me...I also had a nearly fatal accident and even though I drove a rental car the next day, stuff happened to me..hospitalization for depression and suicide attempt, etc...I developed a phobia, adn the neurontin didn't help it with the lack of coordination.
As for Buspar.....for me it was a crock.
I lie to my shrink. I always need the highest doseage of every drug....that is how I get him to give me high doseages of everything. And when I cannot be "stoned" I don't take the stuff, so it all works out in a month. What a joke.....
PB
Posted by tenor42 on September 30, 2003, at 11:23:56
In reply to Re: klonopin and neurontin » Simcha, posted by platinumbride on September 30, 2003, at 9:11:36
PB,
Interesting....I am in a similar situation. I too am an opera singer and am feeling that ticking of the clock. I am an Alcoholic (but not really drinking much these days because....) and have a bit of a Heroin habit. Just did detox but am using again...But not a lot. I NEED to kick totally. I am also switching from Lexapro to Paxil (anyone do this before?) and I also take Wellbutrin SR (who doesn't?) What is it about us performers and substance abuse/addiction/depression/anxiety...? Sometimes these traits can help me (on stage for example....emotional memory...so on) but in my life proper....it's not so good....comments? IDeas?
-tenor42
Posted by platinumbride on September 30, 2003, at 15:30:26
In reply to Re: klonopin and neurontin, posted by tenor42 on September 30, 2003, at 11:23:56
> PB,
>
> Interesting....I am in a similar situation. I too am an opera singer and am feeling that ticking of the clock. I am an Alcoholic (but not really drinking much these days because....) and have a bit of a Heroin habit. Just did detox but am using again...But not a lot. I NEED to kick totally. I am also switching from Lexapro to Paxil (anyone do this before?) and I also take Wellbutrin SR (who doesn't?) What is it about us performers and substance abuse/addiction/depression/anxiety...? Sometimes these traits can help me (on stage for example....emotional memory...so on) but in my life proper....it's not so good....comments? IDeas?
>
> -tenor42Tenor...
I, for one, am not YET on wellbutrin LOL... I have been...didn't do much. I am surprised you are if you have anxiety issues, but I am not your shrink :)
You know, I think that deep down, some of us are just so disenchanted with the way things are. I, personally was encouraged by everyone all of the time....oh, well, except for the people who did the hiring for the really big and important companies and big managers. We "artistic, sensitive types" see the injustices in the world and close an eye to them. We have compassion, but we (at least I) always pushed the pain I felt at seeing the suffering of others to the back of my mind and forced myself to concentrate on my goals. I don't know where you live, but I was born in NYC. The pain there is so accute....you see it everywhere. No respite. Any person who has an ounce of compassion is going to need to retreat.
I don't know how you feel about this, but performing, while I love it, was never what I thought it would be...disappointment....
or, are you not getting to perform as much or where you want to? Do you "use" when you are performing? Does smack swell your chords??? FOrgive me for sounding like a singer lolEver listen to Pink Floyd's The Wall? Aside from the mysogyny and the WWII stuff, there is a message that hits home for me about "the bleeding hearts and the artists....and when they've given you their all some stagger and fall, after all, it's not easy...banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall" I am quite sure i got the last words right. I am sure I will hear about it if I didn't!
It has become a quagmire for folks like you and me hasn't it? I bet you never thought you'd be here.....I surely didn't.....
PB
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