![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:22:48
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara, posted by BarbaraCat on December 11, 2003, at 14:09:25
> Hi All,
> A catchup of sorts. Still coasting here on the rim of chaos but getting used to it. Forget who said it, but it goes something like 'the wisdom of peace is simply learning to tolerate uncertainty' and ain't it the truth. If only we could be certain that another intense stress is really some kind of breakthrough or even a breakdown and not just the same old recycled shit in a new package. But we must trust that there will be an answer, right? Ah, grasshoppah, such wise words of calm and loving spirit. Now this is how I REALLY feel:
>
> With all the crummy suffering cropping up everywhere in my life, just learned 2 days ago that our beloved oldest (not that old, just 13) cat has chronic renal failure and it's just a matter of time. I don't know how long, of course, and it may be years, but it will mean giving him very frequent IV's and watching him slowly decline as his little kidneys inevitably fail. There has to be a point where a decision must be made to pull the plug, but oh, I'll miss my little fuzzy buddy. I was just thinking the other day as we were head butting and purring together 'this little guy loves and trusts me more than any being on this planet' and then the thought 'oh no, now I've done it. As soon as I let myself love too much or get too happy the fan turns on and the brown stuff flies'. So, yeah, I know that's what life is all about and 'tis better to have loved and lost and all that stinkin' pukey crap but I'm just tired of the pain. Physical, emotional. I'm sure I'm even bumming you all out but if you can't come here to kvetch then where the hell can you? But here's a little gem. We were at some friends (now ex-friends) the other night and I was into some major pain. It was to the day the one year anniversary of my Mom's death, I've been going through the flooding PTSD processing and although haven't gone into the disturbing details with anyone, I'm not at my best or perkiest these days. I made the sorry ass mistake of over-indulging (yes Katia, I've fallen a few times. Sometimes feeling awful is just too much and there's a little bottle of elixer guaranteed to help just around the corner. I KNOW you can relate!) and starting letting on how miserable I was feeling and talking about death and loss and STUFF YOU THINK YOU CAN TALK TO FRIENDS ABOUT, DAMMIT!! Long story short, I was accused of bringing evil, demonic, dark and negative energy into their house and had done so on many occasions in the past. Now, I can get as dark and despondent as the best of them and my mixed states depressions can be mighty scary, but sheesh, this was nothing! This was simple pain and needing compassion asking some deep questions, and yes, babbling on stupidly in my inebriated state, but hey, folks, this was plain mean and I don't get this life. You don't do this to someone who'se hurting and mourning. Yes, I believe they have issues with death and questions of afterlife and yada yada but I'm seriously questioning wanting to ever give my heart, trust, need to anything ever again.
>
> Are we learning anything here from all this pain? Are we wearning ourselves down cause we don't know how to stop immersing ourselves in the pain? I thought these were my friends and only now I learn they've got this Gandalf/Balrog fantasy complex and guess who got to be the Balrog. Oh, if only I knew how to do that little trick like combust into flames at that moment! Or snuck some split pea soup into my mouth and spewed it all over the room! Ah! Now THAT would have been worth it!
>
> I'll be OK, I am OK. I'm just really pissed that someone who is a very good person, that would be myself, who really wants more than anything to just do my best and get a tad bit of enjoyment and happiness on the way keeps getting kicked in the gut. So you can see why I'm not on here more. Maybe I should be so I don't dump all this on you at once. Maybe that's the whole problem. Maybe I should get out more so I don't get life dumped on me all at once every time I step out the door. So, that's me, how about you? Oh, I upped Lam to 200mg during this time, am tolerating the insane itchies, would rather swallow a bucket of tobacco chaw juice than an ounce of booze, am in therapy, and am about to call my pdoc to take away this dread but he can't of course. It's good practice to learn to tolerate the discomfort. Hah, my negative 'evil and demonic' mind sneers, 'preparing for what? The neurotoxic warfare about to arrive?' But that's horsecrap. All of us here at least know that's already happened. LovE, Barbara
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:25:18
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:22:48
[Posted by katia on December 11, 2003, at 15:53:19]
> Hi Barb!
> I was happy to see the post from you.
> WHEW!! my dear. just some quick responses to some of what you wrote -
> Soooo sorry to hear about your little teeger. But when he goes, he only goes away in kitty form. It's still hard to think about it.
>
> >>Long story short, I was accused of bringing evil, demonic, dark and negative energy into their house and had done so on many occasions in the past.
> **Man alive. what a bunch of freaks. talk about evading the shadow. serious shadow issues going on with them. It's not even about you - it's about them and their fears. Otherwise why couldn't a friend be there when you are mourning and in grief? That hurts Barbara. So badly. When friends suddenly turn on you when you thought you could be vulnerable and open with them. But the fact that you have it in you to be exposed and open/vulnerable is a gift. It's their problem to not be able to see that or receive it but mix their own shit in there and ignorantly project onto you.
>
> > Are we learning anything here from all this pain? Are we wearning ourselves down cause we don't know how to stop immersing ourselves in the pain? I'm just really pissed that someone who is a very good person, that would be myself, who really wants more than anything to just do my best and get a tad bit of enjoyment and happiness on the way keeps getting kicked in the gut.
>
> ** I soooo know what you mean here. It seems when something goes "wrong" then everything goes to pot as well. I can relate. Last summer was the WORST time of my life and I just kept getting hit in every direction. If it built anything at all, it certainly built strength, empathy, and depth in me. And I went to the most insane depths of my being, trying to hang on in anyway I could (this was also before I was on medication!!! or getting any treatment). I lost a baby, a boyfriend, and then a best friend all in three months - no job, no home, etc....and I just kept getting hit from all sides even outside of the three big losses. I was being tested - tested to just the edge of what I could no longer handle - just to the brink teetering on it - and then energy shifted. I went throught it all - at one point it was so ridiculous how much agony I was in that just kept up unrelenting for months; it hit me "what if this is just the way life is". What needs to change? my perspective? my resistence to what is, is causing suffering? all these things that ran through my head before I realized I was in a very major clinical depression and not medicated ontop of everything else.
> The sense and the "lessons" will come to you, but later after all this insane hurt and agony has passed. And some things are just the way they are. Those people are idiots and you don't need to be around them anymore! :-)
>
> I too am at 200mg of Lam. and as I was saying in another post somewhere, I'm not totally there. still sleep a lot, can handle minimal social interactions, am sensitive, and have those occasional dark hours which hit me out of nowhere. BUT, I can feel I have a bit of a safety net and that feels so good. I've just started an Atkin's diet today for two weeks (the induction period) and then an easier time of it after that. So I won't be drinking at least for the next two weeks. It's a long damn process to quitting. Harder than I ever imagined, once i seriously tried to committ myself to it; it wasn't as easy as I thought. I know you can relate.
>
> Keep posting Barb. If it helps you.
> Hugs-
> katia
Posted by nmk on December 12, 2003, at 14:26:46
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:22:48
> > Hi All,
> > A catchup of sorts. Still coasting here on the rim of chaos but getting used to it. Forget who said it, but it goes something like 'the wisdom of peace is simply learning to tolerate uncertainty' and ain't it the truth. If only we could be certain that another intense stress is really some kind of breakthrough or even a breakdown and not just the same old recycled shit in a new package. But we must trust that there will be an answer, right? Ah, grasshoppah, such wise words of calm and loving spirit. Now this is how I REALLY feel:
> >
> > With all the crummy suffering cropping up everywhere in my life, just learned 2 days ago that our beloved oldest (not that old, just 13) cat has chronic renal failure and it's just a matter of time. I don't know how long, of course, and it may be years, but it will mean giving him very frequent IV's and watching him slowly decline as his little kidneys inevitably fail. There has to be a point where a decision must be made to pull the plug, but oh, I'll miss my little fuzzy buddy. I was just thinking the other day as we were head butting and purring together 'this little guy loves and trusts me more than any being on this planet' and then the thought 'oh no, now I've done it. As soon as I let myself love too much or get too happy the fan turns on and the brown stuff flies'. So, yeah, I know that's what life is all about and 'tis better to have loved and lost and all that stinkin' pukey crap but I'm just tired of the pain. Physical, emotional. I'm sure I'm even bumming you all out but if you can't come here to kvetch then where the hell can you? But here's a little gem. We were at some friends (now ex-friends) the other night and I was into some major pain. It was to the day the one year anniversary of my Mom's death, I've been going through the flooding PTSD processing and although haven't gone into the disturbing details with anyone, I'm not at my best or perkiest these days. I made the sorry ass mistake of over-indulging (yes Katia, I've fallen a few times. Sometimes feeling awful is just too much and there's a little bottle of elixer guaranteed to help just around the corner. I KNOW you can relate!) and starting letting on how miserable I was feeling and talking about death and loss and STUFF YOU THINK YOU CAN TALK TO FRIENDS ABOUT, DAMMIT!! Long story short, I was accused of bringing evil, demonic, dark and negative energy into their house and had done so on many occasions in the past. Now, I can get as dark and despondent as the best of them and my mixed states depressions can be mighty scary, but sheesh, this was nothing! This was simple pain and needing compassion asking some deep questions, and yes, babbling on stupidly in my inebriated state, but hey, folks, this was plain mean and I don't get this life. You don't do this to someone who'se hurting and mourning. Yes, I believe they have issues with death and questions of afterlife and yada yada but I'm seriously questioning wanting to ever give my heart, trust, need to anything ever again.
> >
> > Are we learning anything here from all this pain? Are we wearning ourselves down cause we don't know how to stop immersing ourselves in the pain? I thought these were my friends and only now I learn they've got this Gandalf/Balrog fantasy complex and guess who got to be the Balrog. Oh, if only I knew how to do that little trick like combust into flames at that moment! Or snuck some split pea soup into my mouth and spewed it all over the room! Ah! Now THAT would have been worth it!
> >
> > I'll be OK, I am OK. I'm just really pissed that someone who is a very good person, that would be myself, who really wants more than anything to just do my best and get a tad bit of enjoyment and happiness on the way keeps getting kicked in the gut. So you can see why I'm not on here more. Maybe I should be so I don't dump all this on you at once. Maybe that's the whole problem. Maybe I should get out more so I don't get life dumped on me all at once every time I step out the door. So, that's me, how about you? Oh, I upped Lam to 200mg during this time, am tolerating the insane itchies, would rather swallow a bucket of tobacco chaw juice than an ounce of booze, am in therapy, and am about to call my pdoc to take away this dread but he can't of course. It's good practice to learn to tolerate the discomfort. Hah, my negative 'evil and demonic' mind sneers, 'preparing for what? The neurotoxic warfare about to arrive?' But that's horsecrap. All of us here at least know that's already happened. LovE, Barbara
>Hi Girlfriend,
I can't figure out this redirect stuff ...I wanted to check the "previous poster" box to direct the post to you but both posts in this thread have Dr. Bob's name.
Anyway, I am sending you many "i'm sorry's": one for your ailing beloved kitty cat, one for the loss of your "friends", and one for not writing in awhile.
Your friends sound like big-time losers! To accuse you of bringing demonic, negative energy into their presence when you needed support and an ear is unbelievable. Is there anyone in the group that offers an ounce of empathy that you can talk to solo? That is what is so lovely about this place...you know that we understand the pain and are with you all the way. You know, I have a group of 7 college friends that I get together with about once a month but I have never once let on what I am going through. I just don't think they would get it and therefore, I save it for the hubby, pdoc, and my babble gals.
I am coasting along with you, for the moment. Three weeks ago, after climbing up to 300mg of Lamictal, the agitation, anxiety,insomnia, and depression became very severe. I went to my pdoc and he knocked me down to 100mg of Lam. I felt better but not 100% so I decreased the lam slowly to 0, which is where I am at now. I am flying on 50 mg zoloft, 10 mg of ambien at night and .5 mg of klonopin as needed during the day. I also have some zyprexa on board to take as needed at night. I feel much more calm, can think clearly, and feel alive again....for the moment that is. The week before my period is when my true colors will show so I will see what happens.
Now I am questioning the BP II diagnosis because I am wondering if all of the cycling, mixed states, etc. was a result of the BP itself or because of the boatload of meds I was on. Now that I have simplified my meds, I have not cycled in 3 weeks, nor do I have the anxiety, depression, etc. Any insight????????
It was good to hear from you....miss you.
Nicole
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 12, 2003, at 17:44:21
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara « BarbaraCat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2003, at 18:22:48
so sorry for your kitty...your friends?? (am i using that word correctly), lack basic empathy at best, and are insensitive clods at worst. your call to make. bet you've been there for them though? no matter, when it comes to people, i love my dog...
Lamictal?? 200mg?? are you epileptic? this ia a yucky drug...too many side-effects, unless you really need it to control seizures. if not, maybe you should consider lowering the dose or dropping it in favor of something else...
Posted by BarbaraCat on December 20, 2003, at 20:14:18
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara, posted by krazybirdlady on December 12, 2003, at 17:44:21
Hi again my dear friends. Whew! Where would I be without youse guys? I semi-collapsed there for awhile and am starting to reconsider my serious consideration to stay in bed for the rest of my life. About my 'friends', I'm still reeling from that one. Not because of any lingering hurt that they caused me but because unfortunately too many people out there are like that. As I continue to think about that evening, I'm more and more amazed. Can't handle their shadow, as Katia so correctly said, and they can't handle anyone else's. And yes, I have been there plenty for both of them. In fact, I know so much about their lives and they know so little about mine because they never bothered to ask anything about me.
You know, with the isolation and self-doubt that come with mood disorders it's hard to venture out of the house when we feel bad or feel enough energy or mental quickness to communicate or feel safe and trusting with others so that having true friends becomes very difficult. I've put up with alot of very bad treatment from too many people, such as from the former 'friends' (I almost spelled that 'fiends') just because I wanted their friendship. I had funny feelings from the start about the fiends but ignored my gut feelings because I so badly wanted their friendship. You know, hang out, watch a DVD, talk about life, the universe, everything. Just feel the warmth of companionship with people you trust and who'll love and accept you no matter where you're at and vice versa. It gets lonely without it. Even though I've got a great hubby, kitties, some great friends and love my own company, still, I'm so much wanting a sense of community.
Don't you think that all of us are longing for more love in our lives? It feels so good to give it, even more than receive it. And not being able to extend simple plain old friendship between human beings is so sad but these are the times we seem to be living in. I think this situation is a large part of all of our depressions. We're longing so much for love. No wonder I have 9 cats. They give it and receive it - no problem.
My kitty is hanging on. It's so sad to see this little critter going through this suffering but he doesn't seem to want to move on just yet. I'll know when he does.
As far as the lamictal, krazybird, I'm wondering about it myself. I went to up 200mg and I think I felt better on 125. This happened before and it makes me question why it would be that less makes me feel better and would less yet make me feel even better, and if so, why am I taking it? I'd be interested in your thoughts about why you feel so strongly against it.
Nicole, I'd say you're right on about too many meds screwing up your head - not to mention your body. They're lifesavers, but only in the amounts that are required to do the trick and I doubt very much that bucket-loads are necessary. No one knows really how they work or what's going on with this mood stuff and it seems like one thing or another goes out of balance when you start dickering around. I know that even with the hell of the past few weeks I just hung on and prayed - and I mean alot! I'm not quite sure who I pray to anymore because the white-bearded dude in the sky just doesn't do it for me anymore and my spiritual attitudes keep morphing. But someone is surely listening and I'm beginning to feel stronger, more alive, older and wiser. And all without any new or more meds (although I sure was tempted to plead with my pdoc to fix me). And without TOO much alcohol, dear Katia. A time and place for everything. So, I'll keep in touch more and please, you do too. I'm soooooooo glad you all are in my life and my true (blue) friends. Love, Barbara
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 26, 2003, at 14:44:09
In reply to Another Hi from Barbara, posted by BarbaraCat on December 20, 2003, at 20:14:18
hi Barbara....as per your question about the lam...it is only my opinion, of course, but it is a drug that was originally manufactured for epilepsy. was later tried for a variety of things..mood disorders being one of them. i have found that a good percentage of people either can't take it at all, or take it as a last resort and still feel crappy (but maybe not as bad as without it). at dosages upwards of 150mg, it's side-effects are full blown. guess it's a personal choice, but i have noticed that the side-effects are worse than the disorder. a pharmeceutical grab for cash...new use, more money...but don't get me started..lol...
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 26, 2003, at 14:52:22
In reply to Re: Another Hi from Barbara, posted by krazybirdlady on December 26, 2003, at 14:44:09
i think we have the same ex-friends.... boy, do they sound familiar. and i forgot to ask..how is your kitty doing???
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
In reply to Re: Hi from Barbara...Barbara, posted by nmk on December 12, 2003, at 14:26:46
Hi Nicole, Katia, Katy and Friends,
Sorry I haven't written in so long. Many things have happened, one of which was all our computers crashed - all three of them! So I haven't been able to get on to respond. It's pretty indicative of how life has been. All crashing down. This has been one of the hardest times of my life and I was trying to do it while reducing my meds. Why we do this?... I felt I had some deep impacted stuff to deal with and didn't want to dull it with meds, but I forgot that you don't start digging out of a hole without a shovel while the hole keeps getting filled with more shit. And dulling how I feel has never been a problem - just the opposite. Also, the other silly reason is I'm tired of the pudgy chub. We let me tell you, the Stress Diet sure does work. Buying fixing and chewing food is a challenge when you're crazy.Yesterday my husband and I decided that we would work things out and not get divorced after all like we've been struggling with the past month. That with the two of our cats' (at last report it was only the one, now it's two) serious health issues and a load of other things breaking down - cars, computers, dishwashers, cats, marriage, sanity - it's almost ludicrous but very scary and depleting. I know it's silly, but I seriously wonder if my insanity is creating these chaotic happenings. I have been to the most sublime to the most hellish worlds during this and learned alot from both, but I long for 'normal life'.
Sooooo, I cried 'Uncle, dammit' and went back on Nortriptyline and feel much better even after 3 days. I've reduced lithium and Lamictal way down because of my previous stoic determination to dig into the dregs of my madness (and because I question if I'm really bipolar-II and not some form of schizo-affective), so at least those meds are out of my system. I'll see how it goes on Nortrip (it worked well before where none of the SSRI's did) and a smidge of Lam and lots of ativan. I'll also see my pdoc but I don't have much hope he'll come up with anything better. I'll also be doing weekly therapy and this time I will insist they spend the required time and care on me and not be so intent on get her in and out and make her semi-functional.
I'm so sick of these meds and I'm so sick of feeling this bad. It's truly amazing the mayhem a person can create when there's rage (justified), despair and vivid halluncinations of destruction. All of which are justified but I can't tell how much or at what level in that extreme state. Hoo boy, it has been bad, bad, bad, bad. Mad! - mad I tell you! Maaaad! I think the Nortrip will help me to see more clearly and get back on track, set a structure and a plan for my tangled life. I'm also feeling so pissed that all the very intense deep work I've been doing on my 'inner fu**cked up child' and processing were not a bit helpful in the face of such extremity and how a few days on a stinkin' pill pulled me out of the flames. How trite can that be!? Life is still very complex and in mayhem with all the external breakdowns, but at least now I don't feel like 'just one more thing and I will not be able to stand it'. I now feel like yes, I can stand it. Shit. Life should be about much more than just being able to 'stand it' from crises to crises.
Hope you all are doing fine. Please reply. I miss you all very much but was in no place to type a thing and even more, did not want to infect. Love, Barbara
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 1, 2004, at 16:56:55
In reply to Rrring - it's Barbara to say Hi » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
wow barbra,,
you have delt with alot this last little bit in time..
take care of your self..
and i am very happy you can deal with the hardships as well as understanding that you deserve the best...
keep posting
j
Posted by nmk on February 2, 2004, at 9:52:40
In reply to Rrring - it's Barbara to say Hi » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
Hi Barbara,
So good to hear from you. It sounds as though we are in the same boat right now.....trying to reduce the meds yet still stay afloat. The past three months have been pretty good for me since I have been off the Lamictal and getting by on 50 mg of zoloft and 2 mg klonopin and 2.5 mg of zyprexa for sleep. This cocktail had been working wonders until a few days ago when the anxiety hit really hard and the sleep problems came back. I just returned from my pdoc and he wants to try a new med called Symbax which is basically prozac and zyprexa combined. A part of me feels like crying because I am sick and tired of all these med trials yet another part of me holds a small glimmer of hope. He told me to try it for a week so what the hell. My fear (and I told him this ) is that prozac is very activating and is known to cause insomnia. He reassured me that combined with the zyprexa, I should be ok. Have you heard of this med? My google search comes up with practically nothing other than a few rantings on about how Eli Lily is losing money on prozac due to the generics out there so they had to invent something unique.
Sorry to hear about the kitty's and about the problems you have been having in your marriage. I had no idea that you were talking divorce. It sounds like now that you are back on the Nortrip., you will be better able to put things into perspective and work on the issues at hand. Why did you decide to go off it in the first place? I thought that med was your saving grace?
You had mentioned that you are questioning your BPII diagnosis and I am right there with you. Since paring down the meds, eliminating one of the AD's and the Lam., I have not cycled in 3 months. I deal with some pretty intense anxiety and sleep problems but I have not experienced the debilitating depressions that have persisted the past year and a half. I asked my doc if the meds were inducing all of the cycling and he could not answer. It is all so frustrating but at least I am dealing with all of this with a clear mind....not fogged up with too many meds.
I am obsessing about that Symbax prescription and whether or not to try it. (Sorry for my ramblings, I have been up since 5 am and am tired). My pdoc is very hasty when new meds come out and is the first to prescribe anything novel. Half the time, I have to drive from pharmacy to pharmacy since they aren't even stocked with it yet. Please help me. Should I give it a try? A year ago, I would have tried anything at anytime but now I am a bit more cautious because of all the failed attempts.
I guess I should try and get back to work and muddle through this day. Please write back and give me your very much appreciated insights.
Sincerely,
Nicole
Posted by katia on February 4, 2004, at 13:55:33
In reply to Rrring - it's Barbara to say Hi » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
Hey Barbara! (and Nicole)
BY chance, I decided to come onto Substance Abuse board (you realize that's where you posted don't you?)because I just started Antabuse yesterday, and I saw your posting.
Wow! Sounds rough. I kinda knew you were going through something very difficult. Glad to hear you're doing better.
So here's the update on me:
I don't know if you've been going to the other board or not. I've been chatting with Karen about my current state. and i come bringing good news. I'm actually in a quite stable place. In January, I got the Lamictal rash so had to go off of it - very f-ing scary I tell you! I also didn't do well on Lithium - was a shuffling drooling zombie. So I went off both.I'm only on tiny bits of Seroquel for sleep (which I need - b/c gladly enough I feel the edge of hypomania w/o it) and 12gs of Carlson's fishoil and I feel fine. For the past three weeks, I've been very up and awake. I'm also in the process of buying a house (a grounded non-manic move - I think :-).
However, in the past two days I'm starting to come down a bit - not depressed (and hopefully won't be). But overall, I feel so much better not on meds. It's insane how I was so medicated and cycling worse for the past year and half on meds. Grant it, I need the seroquel and the fish oil could be doing something. My system's very sensitive and I don't think I need a lot of meds. I've got Trileptal as a backup here if I need it.
I also just started Antabuse. I'm very excited about it. I'm so relieved to be getting alcohol and the choice of out of my life! I'm so sick of it.
So that's me. A definite shift in energy (whether it's that 84 yr old cycle that ended for me on Dec. 30 - remember that psychic - or if minimal meds is better)
Isn't it ironic? years and years of therapy dealing with the ramblings of an unmedicated mind and then presto! take a med that works and ALL those issues go out the door so easily!!!
Does make the case for meds.
VERY good to hear from you Barb!
Katia
Posted by nmk on February 12, 2004, at 13:34:47
In reply to Rrring - it's Barbara to say Hi » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
Where are you girlfriend? Did your computers crash again?
Nicole:))
Posted by katia on March 7, 2004, at 3:32:57
In reply to Rrring - it's Barbara to say Hi » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on January 29, 2004, at 19:34:56
HI Barb,
Are u there anymore?
katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 9, 2004, at 15:23:06
In reply to ruthere » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on March 7, 2004, at 3:32:57
Hi Katia,
I posted yesterday, but don't know anymore where the heck these posts end up. So I wanted to get back to you anyway. Yes, I'm still here, emerging from a very dark and crazy tunnel and now med free. Life crashed very hard for me. So did our computers, dishwasher, car broke down. At least our 2 sick cats are still with us. Gotta give thanks for what we can, eh?Please tell me about your Lam rash. I'm down and out pretty seriously at the moment from getting Stevens Johnson rash from taking DMPS to chelate mercury. My last 50mg pill of Lamictal was the end of January so I don't think there's a huge correlation, but one has to wonder. Was in the hospital and saw 2 derm consultants, on the horn with the naturopath and the various staff. The consensus is it's a reaction to the chelating agent which may possibly be a sulfa drug allergy (although I've never been allergic to sulfas before). DMPS is a not FDA approved for chelating mercury so, of course, there's no accurate or consistent info anywhere. But I've got it and it's real lucky the progression halted when it did. Besides the rash and itching, it affected my mucous membranes so I'm blistered and bleeding from mouth to vagina and anus as well as having a semi-ulcerative rash on my body (thank god not the face). There's nothing to do except basic system support like plenty of water, watch for infections, good nutrition, enhance immunity, meditate, pray. There's really no 'cure' for it and cortisones cause more problems than not.
What happened with you and the rash? How much Lam were you taking? Please give me the details. There's so little info out there.
It's funny when so many intense things hit over such a short period of time. Something inside just surrenders and says 'aw shit, have your way with me and stop farting around'. I guess it's a step along the transformational path with all the lessons we're here to learn. The main one I've gotten for sure is how important it is to take only one moment at a time, really be in it in all its textures, and trust that the next moment will fall as it will. Each moment is manageable in discrete doses. It's the projection into the 'what if' scary shit that gets me into trouble. Worry is so addicting and so damaging. So this is a grand training in trust.
How is the Antabuse going? I considered it a few years ago after getting my first and only DUII but figured it wouldn't be physically good for me. My drinking has tapered down to practically nothing these days. I've gotten over the craving at last for the most part, or at least am able to choose not to give in to it. Being this sick also makes me want to puke when I think of the slimy swampwater gargoyle blood, or whatever we called it. Please let me know how you are. As I said, I replied to I think it was Fluffy trying to get back to you all. I won't be a regular because I'm really sick and it'll be a while before I'm back to swing again. But love ya, and hope you're doing well. Barbara
> HI Barb,
> Are u there anymore?
> katia
Posted by katia on April 9, 2004, at 15:56:37
In reply to Barbara here » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on April 9, 2004, at 15:23:06
HI Barbara,
Good to hear from you. I did receive both posts you sent. What is DMPS? And you're not on any meds and are feeling fine? EXCELLENT! Unfortunately, sometimes meds can make it worse and sometimes better.Wow. You are having a rough time dear! That is scary scary stuff - the SJS. Luckily you halted it before it got really bad. My rash turned out to be not the SJS, but a junk rash that went away in a few days. It happened when I upped my dose of Lithium; which may have done something to the Lam. Lithium DO NOT work for me. made me a shuffling drooling idiot. I'm currently on 50mg of Lam. (just restarted it) and 300mg of Trileptal and about 25mg of Seroquel for sleep and 12gs of fish oil (Carlson's). And I feel pretty good.
I also just bought a house - thanks to the energy of going off of meds for six weeks in January (except Seroquel and fish oil) and having a bit of a hypomanic episode and have moved; redecorated and now am looking for housemates to manage the mortgage. It's all very self-empowering and wonderful; and I"m still not quite sure how I managed lenders to give me money! I'm getting ready to restart grad school. hopefully my moods will stay steady. At least for the moment, it feels good to be out of real wack-o land. God I had a rough time.Sounds like you have too. I feel for you and hope better days are ahead and you'll see the sun again.
Good news on your drinking. Me? I've been imbibing, especially w/ the move and all very stressful. I went on Antabuse for three days and went off of it due to the house buying. It felt like too much at one time. I'm hoping to eliminate it slowly.
I hope you're rash goes away soon, love.
keep in touch.
Susan
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 11, 2004, at 0:14:01
In reply to Re: Barbara here » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on April 9, 2004, at 15:56:37
Hi Katia (are you really Susan? It'll be a while til I'm used to that!)
>>What is DMPS?
***It's a chelating agent to mobilize mercury out of tissues where it's then bound and excreted (hopefully). I was dx'd with high mercury levels by naturopath and I wanted to get the damn stuff out of my system. Many of my symptoms are sooooo mercury. I was heavily exposed to the raw stuff as a kid so it's not just the standard bad stuff from dental fillings. Still have a few amalgams but they're in bridges and not exposed so I don't think I'll get them out. Didn't you have that done and it didn't do a dang thing for your mood disorder? DMPS is not yet approved by the FDA for heavy metal chelation in the US so there's not a lot of literature on it. At this point it's mainly used in 'alternative' clinics that do weird alternative stuff. It's supposed to be a 'safe' drug (found out since that it's not), usually given IV, and has had some success in pulling out the mercury. But no one knows enough about it when things go wrong. The hospital was stumped cause it wasn't in any of their databases. It's related to the sulfa drug categories and allergies to sulfa meds can cause this stuff but I've never been allergic to sulfas before and this isn't a true sulfamide. I have to wonder if Lamictal primed me for it cause I was getting the terrible itchies with Lam. Chelation, whether for cancer or heavy metals or whatever is a huge burden on the system and I don't think my adrenals were strong enough to take the hit, especially after this past winter in Hell.
**Anyhow, today I actually went out and re-potted one rose. But that was it for me. I'm totally wiped. I give thanks that the powers that look over me protected me from anything worse, like doing IV instead of oral. Some of the picures of severe SJS cases are horrifying. And there's not a damn thing you can do except provide life and symptom support.
>>And you're not on any meds and are feeling fine? EXCELLENT! Unfortunately, sometimes meds can make it worse and sometimes better.
***I can't say that I'm feeling great even when I'm not feeling sick but I'm learning to tolerate discomfort better. I also know that given the stresses I had in childhood and all throughout life, there's alot that I have to heal on very deep levels. Not that I'm against meds at all and will continue to take them on an as-needed basis, but the fact is, that the intense emotions would ALWAYS break through and then it would be another med search. Nothing worked long term and the extra med burden wasn't doing my liver any good. But yeah, I'm maintaining and it seems to be getting better as time goes by and I clear out my system more. The lows still hit pretty hard but I can ride them out and am learning to trust that things do change, just like the weather.
>
> Lithium DO NOT work for me. made me a shuffling drooling idiot.***I never slowed down mentally on lithium but it sure loused up my thyroid worse than it already was. I'm still waiting to get the pudge off that's supposed to just roll right off when you stop, but no such luck.
>>I'm currently on 50mg of Lam. (just restarted it) and 300mg of Trileptal and about 25mg of Seroquel for sleep and 12gs of fish oil (Carlson's). And I feel pretty good.
**Bueno! You sound great. I've started back on fish oil again aftera a hiatus and I think it makes a difference. It was starting to give me zits so I cut back. Is Seroquel new for you? I hear it's a great sleeper and helps prevent those gawd-awful mixed states we both know too well.
> I also just bought a house - ... It's all very self-empowering and wonderful; and I"m still not quite sure how I managed lenders to give me money!
***I'm sure your delightful you-ness had something to do with it! Having your own home really works magic for feelings of belonging and 'coming home' in so many ways. Renting always felt so on the edge, always being at the mercy of the landlord's whims - very unsettling. The tax writeoffs will really make a diff and let you take advantage of itemizing all sorts of stuff.
>>>I'm getting ready to restart grad school. hopefully my moods will stay steady.
***That's great. Just remember and repeat after me 'I will get regular sleep. No more all-nighters, ever. It's taken this long and there's no need to rush and push myself til I drop.' As I recall, you're in Psych? Can you tell me any more details?
>>At least for the moment, it feels good to be out of real wack-o land. God I had a rough time.
***I know you have, my dear. Things were pretty hellish for you and I'm so glad it's lifted. When we're in the grip of it, no reminders that it eventually lifts ever get through, do they?
>
>> Good news on your drinking. Me? I've been imbibing, especially w/ the move and all very stressful. I went on Antabuse for three days and went off of it due to the house buying. It felt like too much at one time. I'm hoping to eliminate it slowly.***Yeah, right now with feeling rotten physically I have no desire for wine so it's pretty easy to lay off. The hard part is staying with my resolve when my energy starts coming back and I want to feel 'super good' again. The siren song of the swampwater is always so tempting once you've snorkled in those waters.
I really feel better off it and it's the only way I can expect to make not being on meds work. I noticed a few times when I just had to have a few snootfulls how really bleak I felt the next few days. Toxic. I'd encourage you very very strongly to NOT take antabuse. If you research it you'll find quite a few references on how it can aggravate depression pretty seriously. It also interferes with an enzyme that metabolizes many meds. I believe its cytochrome P-450. When I had to go through diversion after the DUII, the first program I was in routinely put people on antabuse. I flat out refused and almost got thrown out of diversion and into jail for 'not going along with the program'. Luckily I got into another sane program that totally agreed it could really cause health issues, but figured drinking was the worst of the two choices. But there are other choices. If you want to do something like that, there are a few new ones out, one being alcaprozam or some such. It's also rumored to have some antidepressant activity. Also, good old Kudzu as a supplement has had some success in curbing cravings. At any rate, more and more I come to realize that doing all these things means the liver pays the price and down the line is when the piper starts wanting payment. Age does not cause Mr. Piper to grow forgetful, believe me. So I hope you're doing milk thistle.
> keep in touch.
> Susan***Really? You're Susan?
Posted by katia on April 11, 2004, at 4:22:00
In reply to Re: Barbara here » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on April 11, 2004, at 0:14:01
> Hi Katia (are you really Susan? It'll be a while til I'm used to that!)
OH! SHeeeat! I cannot believe after all this time, I let it slip. At least it was w/ you!!!
I'm just trying to remain anonymous!!!! Yikes! I was always sooooo careful! yes, Barb, my dear I'm really Susan!!! But let's keep it to Katia during anymore correspondence please! When I saw you wrote my name I almost had a heart attack! I couldn't figure out how you knew until I scrolled down to the bottom. Sorry to fool you all, but it's just a matter of wanting to be anonymous!>>Didn't you have that done and it didn't do a dang thing for your mood disorder?
**Funny you ask this question because I DID have my mercury removed in '99, but it was because I was unaware I was BP or even suffered from depression. I could't pinpoint where the trouble was and why I was so messed up so I figured it was mercury! (or whatever the holistic rage was w/ me. I was always going somewhere "naturally" before finally realizing I was indeed suffering from a mood disorder that *could* be remedied by meds.
>>Anyhow, today I actually went out and re-potted one rose. But that was it for me. I'm totally wiped. I give thanks that the powers that look over me protected me from anything worse, like doing IV instead of oral. Some of the picures of severe SJS cases are horrifying. And there's not a damn thing you can do except provide life and symptom support.
**God honey. I'm soo sooo sorry you've had to go thru' this on top of everything else you've endured. That will be one precious rose! I'm actually amazed that there are cases of SJS like you who aren't that bad. I thought it was either death or hideous disfiguration. Not at all to belittle what you're going thru'. How long will it be until you're better? I hope soon.
>>I also know that given the stresses I had in childhood and all throughout life, there's alot that I have to heal on very deep levels. Not that I'm against meds at all and will continue to take them on an as-needed basis, but the fact is, that the intense emotions would ALWAYS break through and then it would be another med search. Nothing worked long term and the extra med burden wasn't doing my liver any good.
**Great for you. I was hoping that meds can help us access those wounded places that we need to access, but cannot w/out support b/c we are already too deep in emotion. It is tricky this whole med thing and getting it right. AT first I thought "yes! I've finally admitted something is not right w/ me - mood wise and I'll get help w/ meds! and poof! it'll all be better. One thing I'm realizing is I am who I am and meds can help, but I will ALWAYS have to deal w/ who I am.
And another topic/slant altogether. I was thinking: depressed/mercurial people = sensitivity/perception. Maybe it's just that most of us are really tuned in to a bigger spiritual picture, but do not know how to hold it in this crazy world so we become depressed. I know I've thought of that before, but it's holding new light for some reason. It's too coorelated. Sensitive aware creative people are often moody and depressed people. The moodiness could be a result of our awareness w/in a world that is NOT that aware and we are eaten alive and do not know how to deal w/ the insight and knowledge.....just the thought of the evening...
>>down mentally on lithium but it sure loused up my thyroid worse than it already was. I'm still waiting to get the pudge off that's supposed to just roll right off when you stop, but no such luck.
***It's funny b/c after my brief stint w/ Li. I've been losing hair and not losing weight even tho' I've been running around crazy (and this is the time I lose weight) and eating nothing. I think it made me hypothyroid...(I know I know we've had this conversation and I just need to go and get tested)...
>>Is Seroquel new for you? I hear it's a great sleeper and helps prevent those gawd-awful mixed states we both know too well.
**Nope, it's not new at all. I've been taking Seroquel since July for sleep as needed. But I am taking it every night now. Almost 25mg. At first it seemed to make more depressed. But now I can't tell; it's been too long and now I love it for sleep. It knocks me out and let's me sleep thru' the night. I love it. For mixed states, it could possibly be helping in that dept. it all depends on the other meds and my moods and the time of year and time of month and what's going on w/ my life at that time and etc. etc......oh dear I'm exhausted!
I did just up my Lamictal yesterday to 50mg and went into an awful wierd agitated state for the past two days...but as I said earilier in another post to do w/ Lamictal "It's so hard to tell w/ mercurial moods! It's not like it's flat line and then boom! a med works. There are so many factors to put into place!!!!" and this goes for when we titrate up on a med too. Maybe it's because I'm ovulating or the move has died down.... etc. et...
who the heck ever knows what's what!!! unless you're off meds!>>>I'm sure your delightful you-ness had something to do with it! Having your own home really works magic for feelings of belonging and 'coming home' in so many ways.
** Thank you for the compliment Barb! BTW, it's sooo good to correspond w/ you again!! I missed you!!! And would have loved your posts regardless if you were "spreading your darkeness" or not!
>>As I recall, you're in Psych? Can you tell me any more details?
**Yes, transpersonal psych w/ life coaching certificate.
You keep in touch Miss Barbara Cat!
Thinking of you and wishing you well!
Katia (wink wink)
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 13, 2004, at 1:06:28
In reply to Re: Barbara here » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on April 11, 2004, at 4:22:00
Hi Katia. You'll always be Katia to me. I've always loved that name.
>> I'm actually amazed that there are cases of SJS like you who aren't that bad. I thought it was either death or hideous disfiguration. Not at all to belittle what you're going thru'. How long will it be until you're better? I hope soon.
**Well, it's such a weird thing and the med establishment is pretty befuddled by it. There's the common drug allergy reaction called 'erythema hyperforme I' where the rash, which could be really bad, just confines itself to the skin. It could be caused by many things, usually sulfa drug allergy, but also from phenobarbitals, opiods, cocaine, dilantin, are other common ones - whatever a person might be sensitive to. There are levels of it but as soon as it starts involving mucous membranes is when it crosses the line into SJS. There are levels here too and infection is always the issue with breaks in skin/membranes. The really nasty flayed ulcerated kind where infection and inflammation have totally taken over is called TENS (I don't remember the actual name). I have the lower level of SJS. I thank God it didn't affect the skin of my face but the rest of my body looks like a cross between shingles and poison oak, but not too extreme. It hit my lips and gums and throat and esophagus which is bad enough but when it started migrating into my 'privates' it really got scary. The progression has stopped now and I'm on the upswing. About the only thing that provides real relief is good old Benedryl pills. I also did a high dose (1M) of homeopathic Sulfur and I think it's the right remedy for this. It's really made me very wary of Lamictal because no one really understands this ertytheme/SJS thing very well. So many unknowns with these meds. Boosting the immune system seems the best prevention/cure. I think it will be another 2 weeks before I'm feeling back on my feed again.
You mention the sensitivity of BP's, or whatever it is we are/have. It seems like when I'm in an extreme place, whether emotional or a health crisis like this, I'm very open, my antenna is huge. I received some amazing insights during this whole crazy time since November. I have to liken it to very intense psychotherapy from my very own disembodied therapy team. A whole lot more effective than my HMO guys. If I can ever just get it together I need to write it all down and try to capture it.
>>One thing I'm realizing is I am who I am and meds can help, but I will ALWAYS have to deal w/ who I am.
***Who you are is a whole lot more real and multi-facted and sensitive than most people, Katia. Feeling such extremes of life is a rare gift. So many people try anything to just feel something or else spend their lives emotionally suppressed. I think when you hit the extremes in a mood disorder, there's no choice. It's like being an uninsulated live wire. I think we get in trouble when we feel weird and ashamed of it, frightened and don't trust ourselves or the outcome, or give into self-hatred, which is such a common thing with depression.
An off the wall question - do you ever wonder if you're ADD? I know it's a pretty common comorbitity w/Bipolar. I'm beginning to suspect that's a big problem with me and always has been. Of course, there's the other bizarre stuff too, but I can be so damn disorganized and scattered and that really makes my life chaotic and stressful. All the piles of clutter and unfinished projects which I know came about in my hypomanic states, but even when I'm 'normal' I either find it very hard to focus and just do one thing at a time or I'm hyperfocussed to the exclusion of everything else. I used to get by with this because I could multi-task pretty well especially when hypo and when I was younger and had more energetic reserves, but now my brain just feels fried. My drug of choice in my youth was amphetamines, but no way, uh-uh, can I do that shit anymore. Tried Ritalin and it made me feel just terrible. Maybe it wasn't the right med, but I don't think my wiring can handle stims any more. I guess, once again, fish oil is the best natural remedy for this.
Oh, I just long for a clean, clear Zen home and garden. I just don't wanna plough through this old debris of my life anymore, pushing piles of shit from one end of the house to the other. I want order and clarity but just can't get there. I practice mindfullness meditation when I can and it helps but not enough. Oh shit, call it whatever DSM-IV names in the book - BP, BPD, depression, OCD, whatever. It's a brain that is wired funny.
>
> >And another topic/slant altogether. I was thinking: depressed/mercurial people = sensitivity/perception. Maybe it's just that most of us are really tuned in to a bigger spiritual picture, but do not know how to hold it in this crazy world so we become depressed. I know I've thought of that before, but it's holding new light for some reason. It's too coorelated. Sensitive aware creative people are often moody and depressed people. The moodiness could be a result of our awareness w/in a world that is NOT that aware and we are eaten alive and do not know how to deal w/ the insight and knowledge.....just the thought of the evening...***Oh, yes, yes, yes and Amen to that. In other cultures this would be nurtured and cultivated as the gift it truly is. We would be trained as shamans. We are already shamans in training but doing it without much support and by the seat of our pants.
There's a wonderful book I just finished; "The Natural Medicine Guide to Bipolar Disorder" by Stephanie Marohn. I highly recommend it. She talks about bipolar as being just what you described and much more, basically an electrical disturbance that has to be healed, integrated and honored from the deepest spiritual levels to the biophysical ones. It covers many modalities of healing and philosophical musings about this disorder. It's a bright and shining gift, but without guidance it can become so overwhelming and exhausting.
>
>
> ***It's funny b/c after my brief stint w/ Li. I've been losing hair and not losing weight even tho' I've been running around crazy (and this is the time I lose weight) and eating nothing. I think it made me hypothyroid...(I know I know we've had this conversation and I just need to go and get tested)...***Lithium made my hair feel weird. In fact, it got very curly for a while and then went straight. It didn't hold color well either, kinda like it was coated with a greasy metallic film. I've heard it can make some people lose it but not permanently.
>
>
>>I've been taking Seroquel since July for sleep as needed. But I am taking it every night now. Almost 25mg. At first it seemed to make more depressed. But now I can't tell; it's been too long and now I love it for sleep. It knocks me out and let's me sleep thru' the night. I love it.**That's one med change I may be open to and will bring up with my pdoc. I've been taking Ambien cause without it I just don't sleep. But I've heard that Seroquel works much better and has the added antipsychotic benefit. I just don't want anything that's going to pack on more pudge, which I've heard tell it can do, or cause weird tics.
>
>> I did just up my Lamictal yesterday to 50mg and went into an awful wierd agitated state for the past two days...**You seem to be doing real well. I can sense a more joyful lightness and hopefullness in you. Just wondering why you're feeling the need to up the Lam if you're doing OK? You know, if it ain't broke...
> Katia (wink wink)
**I'll never tell...
Posted by katia on April 13, 2004, at 17:56:44
In reply to Re: Barbara here » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on April 13, 2004, at 1:06:28
> Hi Katia. You'll always be Katia to me. I've always loved that name.
Hi Barbara,
I love that name too. and was exposed a lot to it when i lived in Russia.> There's a wonderful book I just finished; "The Natural Medicine Guide to Bipolar Disorder" by Stephanie Marohn. I highly recommend it. She talks about bipolar as being just what you described and much more, basically an electrical disturbance that has to be healed, integrated and honored from the deepest spiritual levels to the biophysical ones. It covers many modalities of healing and philosophical musings about this disorder. It's a bright and shining gift, but without guidance it can become so overwhelming and exhausting.
> >
**I'll check it out. Sounds great. I'm swinging back to being open to other things besides meds, even tho' meds are important too.
> **That's one med change I may be open to and will bring up with my pdoc. I've been taking Ambien cause without it I just don't sleep. But I've heard that Seroquel works much better and has the added antipsychotic benefit. I just don't want anything that's going to pack on more pudge, which I've heard tell it can do, or cause weird tics.**I don't I have any wierd tics, but I've been having real trouble w/ getting weight off - just these ten pounds. I do sleep really well w/ it. It's great.
> >> I did just up my Lamictal yesterday to 50mg and went into an awful wierd agitated state for the past two days...
>
> **You seem to be doing real well. I can sense a more joyful lightness and hopefullness in you. Just wondering why you're feeling the need to up the Lam if you're doing OK? You know, if it ain't broke...
>
**Well, I felt the depression creeping in, you know in the shadows on the side lines, ready to pounce. I"m trying to be pro-active and catch it before it catches me. W/ all these major life changes, I'm very suceptible to it now. But what it did was made me OHHHHHH SO AGITATED AND CRAZY. I had to back off down to 37.5mg instead of 50mg. I also increased the trileptal to 450mg. I think 300mg was just too low - I'm cycling a bit still. The therapeutic dose for Tril. is 600mg. I feel a bit more calm, not so agitated, hang wringing, intolerant, tearful, and anxious.
I'm almost there re: the right med cocktail.
Good to hear from you. Keep in touch.
Katia
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