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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking » linkadge, posted by Jakeman on June 8, 2005, at 20:52:18
Posted by 4WD on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>
>
> LinkadgeDon't do it Linkadge! It'll make you anxious in the long run. And depressed because you can't quit!
Marsha (smoker for 25 years)
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
I like chewing nicotine gum although I can hardly recommend starting it if you're not already a smoker...Smoking cigs does seem to make me anxious as someone else posted, and I think it's because while nicotine gum does not...cigarette smoke increases the rate at which benzodiazepines such as clonazepam are eliminated by the body. And since I take clonazepam...Go work out instead! Go play with a puppy! Go take a ride on a motorcycle! Don't smoke! There's no pleasure to be had there.
Imagine being dysthymic and dying of emphysema or cancer too.
This all said as I look over at an empty Parliament box...
Posted by quantro on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking » linkadge, posted by Mr.Scott on June 9, 2005, at 3:22:13
it probably is a bad idea but aslong as you dont smoke very often i think its quite good for calming you down.i do when i feel stressed or like im going to snap at somone!
Posted by yesac on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by quantro on June 9, 2005, at 6:53:14
> it probably is a bad idea but aslong as you dont smoke very often i think its quite good for calming you down.i do when i feel stressed or like im going to snap at somone!
Really? Maybe I should take up occasional smoking too. Forget Zyprexa. I need something to calm me down on occasion.... the problem is I think it's so addictive that most people can't just do it once in a while.
Posted by yesac on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>
I agree... pleasure is awfully hard to come by. And maybe it is all hype, like someone said, but if it is... why bother living at all? What's the point if there is no pleasure to be had?
Posted by yesac on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>This might sound really lame, and I know this probably isn't what you were looking for, but here's an idea. I've decided lately that I am going to try this new thing of trying to focus on positives. Like, if I find myself thinking about everything that sucks so much... just try to come up with a few things that *don't* suck so much, tiny as they may be. The other day one was that I didn't feel as bad as I had the day before... and I won two free Snapples... small things. No it doesn't really bring pleasure, but it at least maybe can help me (you) to realize that there are some things that are okay about the day.
Posted by Maximus on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>And why not? I give myself the permission during the week-end only. Link, i used to smoke a cigar or two after taking ours strong and lovely canadians beers. Ahhh now we talk buddy. We feel so alive...
And don't forget to go outside and meet people.
Posted by djmmm on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>
>
> LinkadgeWell..if your are talking about tobacco, cigarettes decrease MAO-B; smoking really may make you feel better.
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by djmmm on June 9, 2005, at 12:43:09
I'm really just throwing out ideas. I probably won't develop the habbit any time soon.
For me SSRI's were a lot of fluf, but not really a lot of substance. For some people, its not just serotonin and norepinephrine out of whack, it may be things like dopamine, and acetycholine.
Like it is very hard to discribe. Sometimes I simply forget who I am. It is almost as if I just woke up today but I couldn't tell you a twit about who I am or what I am.
Nootropics, for instance, usually depress people. Sometimes I have found that I feel better on anything that improves my memory enough that I get a stonger sence of self, and remember who I am.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on June 10, 2005, at 18:27:59
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 9, 2005, at 15:05:34
Is that true, Link, that nootropics usually depress people? I find piracetam and its relatives a bit of a strain, perhaps. Centrophenoxine was *too* much, I dunno how people take it.(the ACh thing doesn't do much for me). Hydergine I enjoyed straight away in high doses, only problem was sleep. (Some effect on dopamine, seratonin, and a blockage of alpha2 adrenergic receptors, if I remember correctly, or something like that.) Vinpocetine and I get along OK. Deprenyl's good. What we (I) need is minaprine.
Smoking kinda sucks but as something to mark the time and share a moment with someone, I've always liked it.
Declan
Posted by FredPotter on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by Declan on June 9, 2005, at 15:20:26
I smoke a pipe. It's one of Life's greatest pleasures and not so harmful as cigarettes. Just don't inhale. The aim is to start with a mild tobacco like Gold Block and work up through the flakes till you reach the pinnacle - Condor Long Cut. Aah! I think the pleasure has little if anything to do with nicotine though
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by Declan on June 9, 2005, at 15:20:26
Yes, drugs that generally increase acetycholine function tend to decrease noradrenic function.
They call it the cholinergic-adrenergic axis. I found a good explaination on the cover of www.nootropics.com as to how oftentimes so-called "smart drugs" tend to induce depression. As well there is the term "dumb drug euphoria", whereby certain drugs like anticholinergics (cogentin etc) that produce cognative dysfunction, can actually produce a "mindless euphoria".
Linkadge
Posted by ace on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 8, 2005, at 20:21:59
> I get no pleasure out of life. I need some pleasure.
>
>
> LinkadgeTo be real honest, smoking really gives me pleasure...but maybe try to find it by becoming obsessed with a sport, health, etc etc....even if you don't enjoy the new pleasure at first before long it might suprise you how much you dig it!!!
Ace
Posted by mike13 on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 9, 2005, at 15:05:34
cool, i'm gonna start heroin soon.
Posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 9, 2005, at 17:34:00
> Yes, drugs that generally increase acetycholine function tend to decrease noradrenic function.
>
> They call it the cholinergic-adrenergic axis. I found a good explaination on the cover of www.nootropics.com as to how oftentimes so-called "smart drugs" tend to induce depression. As well there is the term "dumb drug euphoria", whereby certain drugs like anticholinergics (cogentin etc) that produce cognative dysfunction, can actually produce a "mindless euphoria".
>
> Linkadge
>Yup, exactly.
Most "smart drugs" make me even more depressed.
Anticholinergic drugs seem to be the only ADs which work for me. And I would say the cognitive deficit caused by depression is far worse than the one induced by anticholinergics. I tried both Biperiden and Procyclidine. Procyclidine has mood elevating and stimulating properties, but Procyclidine is a bit anxiogenic on the long term, for me. And believe it or not, my cognition improves on low dose procyclidine!
And about smoking. I tried to substitute smoking with nicotine inhaler/gums/patches, but nicotine alone seems to cause more stress, causes the release of cortisol. This feeling is the exact one like when I crash on Ritalin, or after doing sports..
But smokng tobaco seems the have an anti stress efect on me. smoking a few has a similar anti stress effect like DHEA, cranial electro stimulation (which also has some anti stress/cortisol effect on higher frequencies. But I dont do that anymore because I dont want to demeylenate my nerve fibres ;) ). I guess other ingredients compensate the negative effect of nicotine induced release of cortisol... or other transmitter systems
Cigarettes really do something what nicotine alone does not do for me.
my 2 centRoland
Posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by mike13 on June 10, 2005, at 1:47:16
> cool, i'm gonna start heroin soon.
Yeah, but Intracranial injection ;D
thats the best
lol just kidding ;-)
Posted by linkadge on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 4:36:20
But I dont do that anymore because I dont want to demeylenate my nerve fibres ;)
It has been donning on me in the past few years just how much dammage I could have done to my brain with the rTMS. Quite honestly I think I have ruined my brain with it.People who know Linkadge two years ago know its not the same linkadge now, and I went off meds periodically then too.
I have entered into a severe hole, where it is like not just my mood that is messed but everything, vision speech, movement, preceptions, plus I think I induced seizure like brain activity.
If I could go back and change one think it would be to have never used the device I made.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 4:35:04
Hi Roland,
>Biperiden...
Did biperiden help? Have you ever tried orphenadrine, benztropine or trihexyphenidyl (benzhexol)???
>Procyclidine has mood elevating and stimulating properties, but Procyclidine is a bit anxiogenic on the long term, for me. And believe it or not, my cognition improves on low dose procyclidine!
It sounds like you should try the other anticholinergics!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Anticholinergics » rod, posted by ed_uk on June 10, 2005, at 9:17:10
> Hi Roland,
>
> >Biperiden...
>
> Did biperiden help? Have you ever tried orphenadrine, benztropine or trihexyphenidyl (benzhexol)???Hi Ed :-)
I have taken 1 dose of 2mg Biperiden. Main effect was that it made me dizzy and caused cognitive problems. It had some positive effect on mood, but I find procyclidine much much more useful.
No, apart from the 2 mentioned, I havent tried anything. But I am intersted in trihexyphenidyl. Should be the most stimulating one. But at the appointment with my doc I didnt want to ask for 3 different prescriptions for anticholinergics... I was glad he prescribed me the 2 at all 8)
> >Procyclidine has mood elevating and stimulating properties, but Procyclidine is a bit anxiogenic on the long term, for me. And believe it or not, my cognition improves on low dose procyclidine!
>
> It sounds like you should try the other anticholinergics!Well yes, but it also sounds like there is something wrong with my cholinergic - adrenergic axis... I now give Ritalin DHEA (as working anti-crash drug) a trial, which seems to be a good decision.... So I try to do the same job from the other way round... I guess
> Kind regards,
> Ed.bye
Roli
Posted by ed_uk on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: Anticholinergics » ed_uk, posted by rod on June 10, 2005, at 10:43:16
Hi Roli!
>But I am intersted in trihexyphenidyl. Should be the most stimulating one.
Orphenadrine is often stimulating too. Benztropine sometimes causes drowsiness.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by djmmm on June 10, 2005, at 18:28:00
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by linkadge on June 9, 2005, at 15:05:34
> I'm really just throwing out ideas. I probably won't develop the habbit any time soon.
>
> For me SSRI's were a lot of fluf, but not really a lot of substance. For some people, its not just serotonin and norepinephrine out of whack, it may be things like dopamine, and acetycholine.
>
> Like it is very hard to discribe. Sometimes I simply forget who I am. It is almost as if I just woke up today but I couldn't tell you a twit about who I am or what I am.
>
> Nootropics, for instance, usually depress people. Sometimes I have found that I feel better on anything that improves my memory enough that I get a stonger sence of self, and remember who I am.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>I have added D-Phenylalanine, and DMAE to my Parnate... I was VERY surprised with the positive effects of the combo.
Posted by Declan on June 13, 2005, at 22:05:27
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by djmmm on June 10, 2005, at 11:38:32
Hi
That's intereting. Just the D form? L phenylalanine would be problematic, perhaps dangerous??? It is said that DMAE can have mood improving effects. D'ya reckon that people on MAOIs should make sure they eat good quality protein and take B vitamins?
Declan
Posted by Levi on June 14, 2005, at 20:28:30
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by djmmm on June 10, 2005, at 11:38:32
I am taking Parnate in combination with tyrosine which is one of the non-essential amino-acids. I have really noticed an improvement in my mood since I added tyrosine to the equation.
Tyrosine(which is actually the amino-acid that phenylalanine breaks down to)is known to raise dopamine, norepinepherine, and epinepherine.
Also, have you experienced any hypertensive problems with the Parnate/Phenylalanine combo because it supposodely can cause a hypertensive crisis.
-Levi
Posted by Declan on June 14, 2005, at 23:43:16
In reply to Re: I think I am going to start smoking, posted by Levi on June 14, 2005, at 20:28:30
Hi again
How much Parnate? How much tyrosine? Would DLPA be better? (PEA thingo isn't it?)
Declan
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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