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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bigjake on September 13, 2001, at 20:40:31
Posted by sl on September 14, 2001, at 9:00:22
In reply to booze and XR (nm), posted by bigjake on September 13, 2001, at 20:40:31
Posted by kid_A on September 14, 2001, at 11:40:14
In reply to booze and XR (nm), posted by bigjake on September 13, 2001, at 20:40:31
Posted by FluteTheatrix on September 14, 2001, at 14:19:14
In reply to i did booze+XR and all i got was this lousy tshirt (nm), posted by kid_A on September 14, 2001, at 11:40:14
Posted by bigjake on September 14, 2001, at 15:26:53
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA (nm), posted by FluteTheatrix on September 14, 2001, at 14:19:14
what the heck did all of that mean? I geuss ya'll are saying that I should Definitly not drink at all while on this Med?
Posted by sl on September 16, 2001, at 13:30:04
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 14, 2001, at 15:26:53
*giggle* Yup.
You get mighty drunk, mighty fast (it's like it takes a little longer to kick in, but when it does, WOW).
I suppose if you allowed for that response it wouldn't be too bad, but it's sorta like walking on a consutruction beam high up in a building...yeah, you'll PROBABLY be ok, but if you slip, it's a long way down.
(I'm famous for my weird analogies with my friends. ;) )sl
> what the heck did all of that mean? I geuss ya'll are saying that I should Definitly not drink at all while on this Med?
Posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by sl on September 16, 2001, at 13:30:04
> Thank you, SL, for that response. I am really at a crossroads here, and any advice, or direction on reading material, web sites, etc. regarding this drug would be great. I already feel fortunate to have found this board, the thing is , How do I know who is commenting on my inquiries? Are you all fellow wackos like me who are either currently on XR, or have been,? Or are you medical proffessionals who are just being nice offering free advice?
I have been so damn lazy the past several months, that after reading a few posts on this board a few days ago, I decided to take a little of my old Adderall Tabs that I saved from a few years back. ( Duh... Its speed!) well, that has seemed to get me off my butt so that my wife will quit asking me to do yard work, but surely this is not ideal, Eh? Any feedback from males or females on laziness with this drug, or booze cravings that increase while on XR would be appreciated. Thanks again to those of you who responded. You all are miles ahead of the person I pay money to.
Posted by willow on September 16, 2001, at 20:42:16
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
*You all are miles ahead of the person I pay money to.
Just curious if you are a fellow Canadian? The booze cravings and eh, made me suspect.
The laziness went away for me when the dosage was increased. What dose are you on? It may have been time too though, because I've lowered my dose because ... well that's another story. After a month on it I started craving coffee. Also I became very fixated on chewing my fingernails. But besides that I have found effexor to be great for me.
Increasing your water intake may help with the cravings.
BEST WISHES
Willow
Posted by bigjake on September 17, 2001, at 0:10:36
In reply to cravings laziness, posted by willow on September 16, 2001, at 20:42:16
Willow, Thank you for commenting.
I am not a Canadian, but still love the booze down here in Florida. The Eh? is just because I Hang out with those Minnesotten's down here.I am trying to adjust my dosage currently. I was on 150 for several months, then 30 days ago upped it to 225 on my own. Went to the looney Doc a few days ago, and she said lets go to 300, so I imeadeatly dropped down to 150 as of 3 days ago. I figure if I do exactly opposite of what she says to do , I will feel better, as I feel worse now than before I met her a year ago.
I did not drink a drop today, I do think I will try to stop that , or at least slow it down for a few weeks, and see if I feel better. The thing is , I have been hitting the sauce very hard ever since I bummped up to 225 a month ago. I dropped to 150, and the cravings are less!? Like I said, I am in opposite world, I geuss.
Willow, I appreciate your feedback. It really makes a difference on this end.
Thanks ,
Big Jake
Posted by Jane D on September 17, 2001, at 10:03:21
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
> > Thank you, SL, for that response. I am really at a crossroads here, and any advice, or direction on reading material, web sites, etc. regarding this drug would be great. I already feel fortunate to have found this board, the thing is , How do I know who is commenting on my inquiries? Are you all fellow wackos like me who are either currently on XR, or have been,? Or are you medical proffessionals who are just being nice offering free advice?
Jake - There are very few professionals here. At least there are very few who are willing to identify themselves. You must assume that every anonymous poster is an amateur (or as you put it fellow wacko) with varying degrees of knowledge. Some of that knowledge is very, very comprehensive, some of it is very bad. Unless you feel comfortable deciding which is which it is a good idea to verify anything you read with outside sources - i.e. non - amateurs who are willing to put the own names and reputations on the line. (Of course it is a good idea to verify everything professsionals say also.) "Caveat emptor" as I'm sure it says somewhere in the FAQ.
-Jane, cynical amateur
Posted by Elizabeth on September 17, 2001, at 10:20:05
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 14, 2001, at 15:26:53
> what the heck did all of that mean? I geuss ya'll are saying that I should Definitly not drink at all while on this Med?
I've taken Effexor XR (which is the only thing I can think of that you might mean by "XR" and which seems consistent with the doses you mentioned using), and I also know a little about the way these drugs work. I don't necessarily think that drinking is absolutely contraindicated. I think you could try drinking just a little bit -- say, about half of a serving (1 serving = 1 glass wine = 1 can (12 fl. oz.) beer = 1 shot (1.5 fl. oz.) hard liquor) -- and see how you feel. Some people find that they can't drink at all on Effexor (or other, similar) because it makes them sick; others may just have to reduce the amount they drink; and others have no problem at all with it.
Of course, all bets are off if the drinking is part of the problem you're being treated for. In that case I would say hold off on the alcohol altogether.
I hope this is helpful.
-elizabeth
Posted by Wendy B. on September 17, 2001, at 10:56:49
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
> > Thank you, SL, for that response. I am really at a crossroads here, and any advice, or direction on reading material, web sites, etc. regarding this drug would be great.
hi jake,to find out more information, do searches on this web site for effexor, venlafaxine (there is also a ref to an entire page devoted to venlafaxine on Psy-Babble's main pg.), alcohol AND effexor, or alcohol AND venlafaxine, and see what you get... there are many links to good web sites out there, but be careful... quoting psycho-babble's FAQ page:
"Don't necessarily believe everything you hear. Just because you see something on the Internet doesn't mean
it's true. (...)
I also don't intend to overdo the caveat emptor
business -- just because you see something on the Internet doesn't mean it's *not* true, either."in other words, there's no substitute for your own common-sense and unique judgment of yourself, your body (your system, both mental and physical)... and then you have to decide what's best for you.
>I already feel fortunate to have found this board, the thing is , How do I know who is commenting on my inquiries? Are you all fellow wackos like me who are either currently on XR, or have been,? Or are you medical proffessionals who are just being nice offering free advice?
yes, some of us are wackos, nut-cases, wack-jobs, psychos, etc.!! but that doesn't mean we don't have a lot of info, insights, brains, and compassion... probably a lot like you!
anyway --
check the FAQ for this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.htmlthat page has loads of links to posts by people who are frequent visitors to this site. many explain the difficulties and risks, but also the benefits and help, one takes in the attempt to find information on your particular 'mental health' issues. read them, it's a good page.
if you asked me personally? i have been helped incredibly by the generous people here. i think dr. bob should be given the nobel peace prize (purple heart? pulitzer? something!) for starting, running, and maintaining this site. many others here would agree.
people share personal, experiential info on meds on the 'plain vanilla' Babble (not Psycho-Social Babble, but just Psycho-Babble, there's a link to it at the top of the home pg). there you can search on effexor all you want, and see what others have said about the drug. you will be reading for weeks - it's probably one of the most discussed drugs on this site.
other folks like to share scientific material they have found on the drug, using searches on Medline or other medical sites. it's amazing that these people take the time to do this for others, they are very generous. some of the medical abstracts and papers are hard to read for lay-people. the language of dopamine-agonists, and norepinephrine antagonists will keep you hopping. for me, searching on my condition (BP I) and my meds became a research project. it's good to spend the time and find out as much as you can.
if people use abbreviations (like i did above), and you don't know what they mean, then ASK! BP I translates to BiPolar I, as described in the DSM-IV, or Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 4th ed., used by the shrinks (do a search on it in Psych-Babble Tips).
on psycho-social babble (you can see why it's called that, i'm running on and on, sorry), you can whine, complain, suport others, share victories both large and small, ask for advice, give advice, etc., etc. most of the people are really nice and friendly and helpful. i find it's easier to write to this board than to talk to family and personal friends, because my friends here know what i'm going through, because they've gone through it, too. they know how to give support because they've needed it themselves, and gotten it here...
> I have been so damn lazy the past several months, that after reading a few posts on this board a few days ago, I decided to take a little of my old Adderall Tabs that I saved from a few years back. ( Duh... Its speed!) well, that has seemed to get me off my butt so that my wife will quit asking me to do yard work, but surely this is not ideal, Eh?
right. i'd suggest talking to the doc who prescribed it for you (the effexor), and telling him/ her your symptoms. they may change the dose or suggest another drug. effexor doesn't work for everyone. as for the adderall, you're probably right, it may not be good for the long term. but again, mention you've taken it to the doctor, your response (getting off the couch) might indicate to him another drug that would work effectively. it's well-known that 'listening' to the symptoms you get on one drug will give the physician/therapist insights to diagnosis, and other possible drug treatments... (the book, Listening to Prozac, is really interesting on this topic).
>Any feedback from males or females on laziness with this drug, or booze cravings that increase while on XR would be appreciated. Thanks again to those of you who responded. You all are miles ahead of the person I pay money to.
if that's the case, maybe you need another doc? just a suggestion...when i took effexor, i was totally out-of-it, and like you: COULD NOT GET OFF THE COUCH. it was hell, and made me more depressed cuz i wasn't accomplishing anything. it was a problem, for sure. as for the alcohol cravings, i don't have a thing for alcohol, so it was never an issue, but again, you should always discuss these things with the doc. if the doc isn't responsive, get another one if you can.
sorry to blather on and on.... it's one of my problems...
best of luck,
wendy
Posted by sl on September 17, 2001, at 11:18:25
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
> > Thank you, SL, for that response. I am really at a crossroads here, and any advice, or direction on reading material, web sites, etc. regarding this drug would be great. I already feel fortunate to have found this board, the thing is , How do I know who is commenting on my inquiries? Are you all fellow wackos like me who are either currently on XR, or have been,? Or are you medical proffessionals who are just being nice offering free advice?
The answer to "How do I find out" is "You don't."
I tried asking once. Nobody would answer me.
But most of us won't comment much on a med unless we have taken it ourselves or have heard first-hand stories about it. The stuff you read here is called "anecdotal", which means it's not verified by studies. If you're looking for specific studies, ask SalArmy4Me, he's usually really good about finding relevant info. :)> I have been so damn lazy the past several months, that after reading a few posts on this board a few days ago, I decided to take a little of my old Adderall Tabs that I saved from a few years back. ( Duh... Its speed!) well, that has seemed to get me off my butt so that my wife will quit asking me to do yard work, but surely this is not ideal, Eh? Any feedback from males or females on laziness with this drug, or booze cravings that increase while on XR would be appreciated. Thanks again to those of you who responded. You all are miles ahead of the person I pay money to.
Um, yeah, adderall is a bad idea.
It'd be too easy to get hooked on it in that situation.
You said you LOWERED your dosage. Mistake.
This is one of the weird drugs where upping the dosage will make the side-effects LESS. You'll have less sedation, for sure. But now you gotta taper back up to 225 and THEN up to 300.
I found that on Effexor XR I craved complex carbs, bran cerael, whole-grain bread, etc. You might try those kinda healthy things instead of alcohol, it might actually satisfy it (if your body is just craving sugars). (Heh, I actually ate a box of raisin bran about every two days!)
By the way, I don't call it laziness. Call it sedation. You're not just laying there cuz you don't care, you're laying there cuz you're tired and sedated from the med. I slept all afternoon every day I was on Effexor, til I went off. And then it was like I was dancing in the streets cuz I was SOOOOO happy to get out and do things again, even simple things like grocery shopping!Luck...
sl
Posted by bigjake on September 17, 2001, at 15:27:55
In reply to Re: booze+XR - Jake-Man, posted by Wendy B. on September 17, 2001, at 10:56:49
Thanks to all who took the time to respond. at least I know that the "sedation", etc. is normal.
What finally occured so that those of you who took Xr were able to get off of it?
Switch meds, doctor pronounced you cured, felt better, ?
Just wondering when to say, ok, I am no longer depressed, and will now stop taking these powerful drugs, and get my old self and old life back. Thanks again for all of your support and question answering.
Jake
Posted by sl on September 17, 2001, at 17:25:03
In reply to Re: booze+XR - Jake-Man, posted by bigjake on September 17, 2001, at 15:27:55
> Thanks to all who took the time to respond. at least I know that the "sedation", etc. is normal.
>
> What finally occured so that those of you who took Xr were able to get off of it?
> Switch meds, doctor pronounced you cured, felt better, ?Feeling better is usually a sign that the meds are working, not that the problem has gone away.
I switched off Effexor cuz the sedation was too much for me. Tried Nortriptyline, ended up back on immediate release Wellbutrin like I was when I was first diagnosed with depression. :)> Just wondering when to say, ok, I am no longer depressed, and will now stop taking these powerful drugs, and get my old self and old life back. Thanks again for all of your support and question answering.
I don't know.
I expect to be on meds for the rest of my life.
If I don't need to be, that'd be wonderful, but I don't want to stop them and THEN find out that I'm going to fall apart.sl
Posted by Zo on September 18, 2001, at 0:24:40
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by sl on September 17, 2001, at 11:18:25
> Um, yeah, adderall is a bad idea.
Um, like, why?
> It'd be too easy to get hooked on it in that situation.
Are you saying that the use of stimulants is the same as addiction?
Zo
Posted by sl on September 18, 2001, at 8:49:00
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA » sl, posted by Zo on September 18, 2001, at 0:24:40
> > Um, yeah, adderall is a bad idea.
>
> Um, like, why?
>
> > It'd be too easy to get hooked on it in that situation.
>
> Are you saying that the use of stimulants is the same as addiction?No, and I think you're a teensy bit sensitive about it.
I'm saying that when it's your only reason to get out of bed in the morning, it'd be WAY too easy to get hooked on that feeling.sl
Posted by bigjake on September 18, 2001, at 11:07:12
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by sl on September 18, 2001, at 8:49:00
> > > Is the non-SR Wellbutrin a little over- whelming?
I felt that this drug made me sweat like crazy, made my heart race, and caused some sexual impairment. And that was the SR, not the "all at once" dose. I geuss the upside is that it works thru your system by evening, thus allowing a calm down, go to bed phase.
Maybe I should try it again, though. I think It is human nature to all of a sudden "realize" a whole bunch of possible new maladies caused by a new drug. I dunno.
I know that taking just 5 mg of adderall at 10 am caused me to not be able to go to sleep till 5 am the next morning.
Why does XR cause sedaton if it helps increase the amount of Dopamine in ones system?
This to me is perplexing. SL, you stated that if I upped my dose, I would feel less sedated, but you also said that this drug made you too sedated to really function.
I need a little help here on that. I probably missunderstood.
When you went off of the xr , did you take prozac etc. ,as some other posters have suggested?
Thanks for ya'lls input!
BIG JAKE
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 18, 2001, at 15:59:40
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 16, 2001, at 19:27:11
Oh god - I have just realised... On XR it takes a while to get drunk, but I dont aseem to go through the "tipsy", "a bit drunk" etc stages, and go from sober to fantastically drunk in the space of 10 minutes!!
Oh, and as for laziness.. I am the laziest pig in the world on it.. it takes so much to actually do anything... *sighs* i need some energy back.
Nikki
Posted by bigjake on September 18, 2001, at 16:04:34
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by NikkiT2 on September 18, 2001, at 15:59:40
> It is a powerful drur, Eh Nikki?
Posted by Zo on September 18, 2001, at 23:18:33
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by sl on September 18, 2001, at 8:49:00
>
> No, and I think you're a teensy bit sensitive about it.
> I'm saying that when it's your only reason to get out of bed in the morning, it'd be WAY too easy to get hooked on that feeling.
>
> sl
Sensitive my bu -- Hi theeere, Dr. Bob!
Posted by sl on September 25, 2001, at 10:13:56
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 18, 2001, at 11:07:12
> > > > Is the non-SR Wellbutrin a little over- whelming?
>
> I felt that this drug made me sweat like crazy, made my heart race, and caused some sexual impairment. And that was the SR, not the "all at once" dose. I geuss the upside is that it works thru your system by evening, thus allowing a calm down, go to bed phase.*chuckle*
I'm a freak of nature, I guess.
I'm back on "all at once", as you put it...and I have less side-effects than I ever did on SR.
No buzz, no jitters, a SLIGHT energy burst a bit after my dose, but shakes/tremor aren't noticeable, etc.
And I SLEEP SO WELL!!! Whee!!! ;)
(I take last dose no later than 7)> Maybe I should try it again, though. I think It is human nature to all of a sudden "realize" a whole bunch of possible new maladies caused by a new drug. I dunno.
*nodnod*
It IS human nature.
Consider trying Immediate Release, too. I know there're others here who responded better to that than they did to sustained release. :)> I know that taking just 5 mg of adderall at 10 am caused me to not be able to go to sleep till 5 am the next morning.
*laugh*
Stimulant.
You'd build up a tolerance over time and probably have to take more (I have no idea how fast this happens, but I'm pretty sure it does happen!)
> Why does XR cause sedaton if it helps increase the amount of Dopamine in ones system?*laugh* Don't ask me.
I'm just zipping thru this, trying to answer as many questions as I can before I run off to class.
I went back to college, that's why it took me so long to answer you. (sorry, by the way!)
Anyway, that I'd have to look up and stuff, I can never rmemeber which neurotransmitter does which.> This to me is perplexing. SL, you stated that if I upped my dose, I would feel less sedated, but you also said that this drug made you too sedated to really function.
Yes.
I never upped the dosage.
I found out TOO LATE that it would've been better at higher doses. That's why I always tell people now cuz it's something I would've liked to try.
> I need a little help here on that. I probably missunderstood.No. You didn't. :P
But I'm also weird. Heh.> When you went off of the xr , did you take prozac etc. ,as some other posters have suggested?
Ummm...yes and no. *tries to remember* I'm thinking not til I was off the XR. So I didn't take it to help with witdrawals, no. They were quite unpleasant, but the Nortriptyline withdrawals were more intense for a shorter period of time. XR was...lessee, felt fluish, dizzy, slighly nauseous, weak, etc, for about a week, it tapered off and I was fine..ohyeah, the muscle twitches. random muscle twitches, mostly in my legs, those lasted the longest, they were still noticeable up to 2 wks later, but they didn't impair me, I didn't trip myself or anything. ;)
You're always welcome! ;)
sl
Posted by pellmell on September 25, 2001, at 11:18:22
In reply to Re: booze+XR HAHAHAHAHA, posted by bigjake on September 18, 2001, at 11:07:12
> Why does XR cause sedaton if it helps increase the amount of Dopamine in ones system?
>You'd probably have to take about a gram a day for Effexor to affect dopamine reuptake. :) But...
> This to me is perplexing. SL, you stated that if I upped my dose, I would feel less sedated, but you also said that this drug made you too sedated to really function.
>
> I need a little help here on that. I probably missunderstood.
>...it starts to affect norepinephrine as well as 5HT reuptake in most people at doses above 200mg. More free norepinephrine in the brain tends to (among other things) give you more energy. It also changes the quality of the side-effects you might feel and might also do something to counter some serotonergic side-effects. You see the same sort of thing with Remeron: at low doses its antihistamine effects predominate, causing major drowsiness, while at higher doses its noradrenergic effects can overwhelm the histaminergic ones, giving you your energy back. (Unfortunately, that never happened for me...)
Anyway, I got a bunch of this info from this little article:
http://www.preskorn.com/columns/9911.html
I'd recommend browsing the rest of the Columns section of the site. They're pretty nifty.Hope I helped clear up some mystery. :)
-pm
This is the end of the thread.
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