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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on September 23, 2001, at 23:11:14
I didn't realize until going off EffexorXR (and Celexa before that) how I was NUMBED out by the med like many people here have said can happen from the pyschopharmaceuticals ... there are some *heavy* things going on in my life and I'd had NO emotions about them whatsoever while on EffexorXR (and Celexa prior to that).
Interestingly, I was not at all numbed out, i.e., I *did* have feelings/emotions the whole time I was on Paxil; in fact, after many years it contributed to hypomania, then pooped out (nice, huh?!)
Anyway, I thought I had somehow become incredibly strong and resilient, but now that the EffexorXR must be cleared out of my system, and I'm experiencing feelings and emotions again, I've come to believe that it wasn't such powerful inner strength and resiliency I developed, but rather the med that was blocking things in me and creating that numbed out lack of feeling or emotion. Wow ... what a revelation ...
And, now I find myself crying at times again, but not the *depression-type* of crying (been there, done that plenty) but rather from feelings about some heavy issues (e.g., my dad has a life-threatening illness, I had made a mess of things with the person I believed and still do believe is the love of my life, who I may have lost forever and I'm just soooooo mad at myself now after feeling nothing for quite some time).
Eeeek - I'm not sure I like *feeling* again ... anyone who wants to share similar experiences with meds, numbing out, etc. please do! Thanks.
Posted by Kristi on September 23, 2001, at 23:30:43
In reply to I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this!, posted by Janelle on September 23, 2001, at 23:11:14
I had the same feeling when going off effexor. Never really realized what that drug did to me, in more ways than one.
I was actually relieved to feel again. Something is not right with a drug that doesn't let you feel.... in my opinion. I welcome the tears now, when something awful happens.... and I welcome the exitement when something great happens.
> I didn't realize until going off EffexorXR (and Celexa before that) how I was NUMBED out by the med like many people here have said can happen from the pyschopharmaceuticals ... there are some *heavy* things going on in my life and I'd had NO emotions about them whatsoever while on EffexorXR (and Celexa prior to that).
>
> Interestingly, I was not at all numbed out, i.e., I *did* have feelings/emotions the whole time I was on Paxil; in fact, after many years it contributed to hypomania, then pooped out (nice, huh?!)
>
> Anyway, I thought I had somehow become incredibly strong and resilient, but now that the EffexorXR must be cleared out of my system, and I'm experiencing feelings and emotions again, I've come to believe that it wasn't such powerful inner strength and resiliency I developed, but rather the med that was blocking things in me and creating that numbed out lack of feeling or emotion. Wow ... what a revelation ...
>
> And, now I find myself crying at times again, but not the *depression-type* of crying (been there, done that plenty) but rather from feelings about some heavy issues (e.g., my dad has a life-threatening illness, I had made a mess of things with the person I believed and still do believe is the love of my life, who I may have lost forever and I'm just soooooo mad at myself now after feeling nothing for quite some time).
>
> Eeeek - I'm not sure I like *feeling* again ... anyone who wants to share similar experiences with meds, numbing out, etc. please do! Thanks.
Posted by sar on September 24, 2001, at 0:29:44
In reply to Re: I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this! » Janelle, posted by Kristi on September 23, 2001, at 23:30:43
dear janelle,
how were your emotions before? i ask because i've referred to myself as an "emotional hemophiliac," all guffaws and sobs, i'd get twised over all osorts of things...and my meds(prozac, klonopin, neurontin) have quelled the hemophilia to the point that i feel like a somwhat normal person (emotionally, at least!)
my own NON-PROFESSIONAL OPINION is that it can be good to be numbed for a bit in the face of a desperate situation--effexor numbed me a bit after i found myself broke, homeless, possession-less, boyfriendless--i still feel as if i need to be heavuly medicated for awhile, maybe forever.
but i think holding onto to the rudimentary emotions is so important. tears clog, and then they hurt more. and doesn't it feel so good to genuinely laugh?
i laughed for six hours straight when i went off effexor. i was literally rolling around on the floor. it seems a sketchy drug to me, but many others have had success. the ole Your Mileage May Vary thing.
if you are not content with your meds you shpuld discuss all details with your pdoc.
sar
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 0:39:56
In reply to I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this!, posted by Janelle on September 23, 2001, at 23:11:14
> I didn't realize until going off EffexorXR (and Celexa before that) how I was NUMBED out by the med like many people here have said can happen from the pyschopharmaceuticals ... there are some *heavy* things going on in my life and I'd had NO emotions about them whatsoever while on EffexorXR (and Celexa prior to that).
>
> Interestingly, I was not at all numbed out, i.e., I *did* have feelings/emotions the whole time I was on Paxil; in fact, after many years it contributed to hypomania, then pooped out (nice, huh?!)
>
> Anyway, I thought I had somehow become incredibly strong and resilient, but now that the EffexorXR must be cleared out of my system, and I'm experiencing feelings and emotions again, I've come to believe that it wasn't such powerful inner strength and resiliency I developed, but rather the med that was blocking things in me and creating that numbed out lack of feeling or emotion. Wow ... what a revelation ...
>
> And, now I find myself crying at times again, but not the *depression-type* of crying (been there, done that plenty) but rather from feelings about some heavy issues (e.g., my dad has a life-threatening illness, I had made a mess of things with the person I believed and still do believe is the love of my life, who I may have lost forever and I'm just soooooo mad at myself now after feeling nothing for quite some time).
>
> Eeeek - I'm not sure I like *feeling* again ... anyone who wants to share similar experiences with meds, numbing out, etc. please do! Thanks.Dear Janelle,
Hopefully, this doesn't pertain to you:
Sometimes, people actually experience an improvement immediately after discontinuing an antidepressant. This is sometimes called a withdrawal-rebound. It generally lasts for a week or two and then fades. I have had this occur with both tricyclics and MAOIs, although the tricyclic rebounds are for me qualitatively better. I don't recall ever reading anyone describe this of SSRIs, although it may happen. It might be that it is the NE reuptake inhibiting properties of Effexor that might be responsible for a rebound should this be the case.
You might definitely be experiencing a return of those emotions that were dampened by the serotonergic counterpart of Effexor and the SSRIs. Often, the cognitive and emotional side effects of drugs come on so gradually and persist for so long, that one doesn't realized the degree to which they are being affected until they finally stop taking them.
How much Effexor were you taking?
- Scott
Posted by Janelle on September 24, 2001, at 0:46:21
In reply to Re: I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this!, posted by sar on September 24, 2001, at 0:29:44
Hi,
Well, you gave me something to ponder and I must admit that before, my emotions were *all over the place*, however, due to waaaaay too high anxiety, which meds have helped.
I don't know if I could also call myself an "emotional hemophiliac," but I do cry easily, I can get "twisted over all sorts of things" ... and most of the meds I've taken (e.g., Celexa, EffexorXR, Klonopin) have quelled the intensity of emotion. HOWEVER, I'm now realizing that it was to *too much* of a point - I was really *not* quelled into feeling like a somwhat normal person (emotionally, at least), I was NUMBED, no doubt about that now. I've got 20-20 hindsight and am in a place of comparison now, and I can see and FEEL the difference. Also, I was on other meds (like Paxil and Klonopin) and did experience the gamut of emotions. In fact, as I'd mentioned in the original thread, years on Paxil culminated in hypomania, followed by poop-out for depression.
I see your point about how it can be good to be numbed for a bit in the face of a desperate situation, I think it *helped* you that the Effexor numbed you a bit after you became broke, homeless, possession-less, boyfriendless. That is a helluva lot to go through. I'm broke and seem to have lost the love of my life, but not the other things you've been through.
I understand and support your still feeling that you need to be heavily medicated for awhile, maybe forever. I myself am now on a cocktail which includes Lamictal as a mood stabilizer, it seems to be *saving* me from the swings and if so far, so good continues I may just accept being on it indefinitely.
I also agree that holding on to what you so aptly described as "the rudimentary emotions" is indeed VERY important. You also put it eloquently when you wrote "tears clog, and then they hurt more."
And YES, it sure does feel so good to genuinely laugh ... and cry ... yes, crying for a *real life reason* feels good and is cleansing ...
Just out of curiosity, what made you go off Effexor? For me it was too activating - the higher I titrated, the more agitated, restless, rubbery legged, lightheaded and caffeinated I felt; even at 75mg/day for awhile it increased rather than decreased my anxiety. I'm very glad and relieved to be OFF that one.
-Janelle
Posted by Janelle on September 24, 2001, at 1:00:47
In reply to Re: I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this! » Janelle, posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 0:39:56
Hi Scott,
I actually wondered if I could be experiencing just what you mentioned - an improvement mmediately after discontinuing an antidepressant, what you said is sometimes called a withdrawal-rebound! Yu-oh! I'll see how the next week (which will be week #2 with no EffexorXR) goes. I hope and pray that what I'm experiencing does NOT fade. It's weird to be *feeling* again, but I must admit, it's more *normal* at least for ME, than the other (numbed out) way was.I was *only* taking 75mg/day of EffexorXR for about two months, then 4 weeks at 37.5mg/day to taper off. I could only tolerate 75 at most; the higher I'd titrated the more anxious, jittery, caffeinated, lightheaded I felt. I have also read (on here as a matter of fact) that at 75mg EffexorXR effects mostly Serotonin and its NE effects do not kick in until about 150 mg. If this is true (for most people) then it wouldn't have the NE reuptake inhibiting roperties of Effexor that might be responsible for a rebound in my case.
I have a strong belief that I was experiencing a return of those emotions that were dampened by the serotonergic counterpart of Celexa and Effexor (but interestingly NOT Paxil all those years! In the end, it had me bouncing off the walls with emotions - into hypomania)
I can now see exactly what you mentioned - the cognitive and emotional side effects of drugs come on so gradually and persist for so long, that one doesn't realize the degree to which they are being affected until they finally stop taking them. Even on *only* 75 mg/day of EffexorXR there is NO DOUBT in my mind that I was numbed from it. Now, from what you've said, a little more time will tell if this return of *feeling* is rebound or not. I hope not; I hope the feelings are here to stay. I may not like all of them, but they are mine, they *belong* to me! (and I was missing them!)
-Janelle
Posted by jay on September 24, 2001, at 18:48:51
In reply to I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this!, posted by Janelle on September 23, 2001, at 23:11:14
What are you on now Janelle? I had a bad time with EffexorXR, and should have realized it a few years ago when I tried regular Effexor. SOme folks do really well on this, but others seem to have a rough time. It's a powerful med, for sure, and maybe that's why it works excellent for some, and not too good for others. It caused 2 things:
1)Horrible dysphoric mania..irritable, angry, scared
2)Numbs feeling completely..That's just me, though...and most a.d's do that to me in time. It just seemed quicker with Effexor.
Jay
> I didn't realize until going off EffexorXR (and Celexa before that) how I was NUMBED out by the med like many people here have said can happen from the pyschopharmaceuticals ... there are some *heavy* things going on in my life and I'd had NO emotions about them whatsoever while on EffexorXR (and Celexa prior to that).
>
> Interestingly, I was not at all numbed out, i.e., I *did* have feelings/emotions the whole time I was on Paxil; in fact, after many years it contributed to hypomania, then pooped out (nice, huh?!)
>
> Anyway, I thought I had somehow become incredibly strong and resilient, but now that the EffexorXR must be cleared out of my system, and I'm experiencing feelings and emotions again, I've come to believe that it wasn't such powerful inner strength and resiliency I developed, but rather the med that was blocking things in me and creating that numbed out lack of feeling or emotion. Wow ... what a revelation ...
>
> And, now I find myself crying at times again, but not the *depression-type* of crying (been there, done that plenty) but rather from feelings about some heavy issues (e.g., my dad has a life-threatening illness, I had made a mess of things with the person I believed and still do believe is the love of my life, who I may have lost forever and I'm just soooooo mad at myself now after feeling nothing for quite some time).
>
> Eeeek - I'm not sure I like *feeling* again ... anyone who wants to share similar experiences with meds, numbing out, etc. please do! Thanks.
Posted by terra miller on September 24, 2001, at 22:49:54
In reply to I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this!, posted by Janelle on September 23, 2001, at 23:11:14
i had totally no idea that i was numbing out until i decided to stop taking ativan regularly. once i stopped i was shocked at the difference. i had reached a point where i was actually feeling really good, but i wasn't accomplishing much in therapy. then i went off the ativan and began to not feel so good, but i was accomplishing boatloads in therapy. so, now i've switched to xanax which i like better and i only use it when i need to use it. i feel cruddy (ie: therapy's tough) but i'm healing. before i felt much better but really was postponing the inevitable work that i needed to do. i will say, that when you reach times when you need a break i think "going numb" is actually a good thing to do so you can catch your breath. anyway, been there. :-) ~terra
Posted by Janelle on September 25, 2001, at 0:11:27
In reply to Re: I can ''feel'' again-yikes-not sure I like this! » Janelle, posted by jay on September 24, 2001, at 18:48:51
You're so right - some folks do really well on EffexorXR (I know of one!) but others seem to have a rough time. I had no idea what a powerful med this one is until I found that I could not tolerate more than 75mg/day and that it had numbed me out so much. I'd been on Paxil for years with no numbing out whatsoever.
To answer your question - I now take Lamictal, Zyprexa and Klonopin.
Posted by sar on September 25, 2001, at 0:44:24
In reply to SAR - response: » sar, posted by Janelle on September 24, 2001, at 0:46:21
dear Janelle,
i stopped taking effexor after my sample pack ran out because it didn't seem to be doing anything for me except disturbing my sleep and vision. i was still in depressed-mode--not bathing, nihilistic, drunkenly reading astrology in Barnes & Noble all day. early on, i researched effexor after a doc prescribed it to me...when i got the sample pack i was so happy, thinking it was the "magic bullet" or what-have-you....and then i read up on it, and did not like what i read. some people do find success with effexor, but the horrifying stories i read frightened me feom renewing a prescription. i've gone with prozac because it is, as my pdoc says, the "gold standard" of AD's. it's older than effexor, has been used by more people, i've experience no ill side-effects--but again, that's where the Yr Mileage May Vary thing comes in...
so what are you on now, aside from Lamictal? Jah used to post about how much he liked it, if i remember correctly. what does your pdoc recommend?
my own experience--i do alot of research, i tell my pdoc what i want after months of reading (after the whole effexor disaster). my current cocktail is very sweet! and nearly all chosen by me.
what is your diagnosis? how do you feel emotionally right now?
i guess effexor made me kind of dull. klonopin + prozac (and now neurontin) make me laugh like a maniac, but i feel more alive than i have in years...
personally, i don't trust effexor...but if it works for you, take it. whatever works, take it.
keep us updated.
sar
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