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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by krystee on March 24, 2006, at 23:56:20
I was just wondering if anyone knows if Antipsychotics are supposed to help you sort your thoughts out. I just got a new pdoc who added risperdal 1 mg to my usual 40 mgs of prozac because my thoughts were "all over the place". Will antipsychotics help that?
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 0:27:31
In reply to AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 24, 2006, at 23:56:20
What's your diagnosis Love Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 14:31:21
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 0:27:31
I don't know. When I took low dose Abilify (below 10mgs), it helped a good bit for about 2 weeks--after that, I just felt dulled out. I think therapy might be more appropriate, or even a stimulant or something...APs are pretty hardcore meds, especially Risperdal (of all the atypicals, Risperdal is probably the "roughest" in terms of EPS and other side effects). Good luck!
Posted by krystee on March 25, 2006, at 19:41:21
In reply to jumbled thoughts, AP, posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 14:31:21
> Risperdal is probably the "roughest" in terms of EPS and other side effects). Good luck!
What is EPS? I have been on it now for about 5 days. I feel tired, my vision is a little blurry sometimes. I feel a little more normal but not completely sane or anything.
Posted by krystee on March 25, 2006, at 19:43:49
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 0:27:31
> What's your diagnosis Love Phillipa
I have a few different diagnoses...All the pdocs agree on Major Depressive Disorder, Panic/Anxiety Disorder, but there is some debate as to whether I also have Borderline Personality Disorder or Manic Depression.
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 20:05:11
In reply to AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 24, 2006, at 23:56:20
> I was just wondering if anyone knows if Antipsychotics are supposed to help you sort your thoughts out. I just got a new pdoc who added risperdal 1 mg to my usual 40 mgs of prozac because my thoughts were "all over the place". Will antipsychotics help that?
Can you describe in more detail what you experience? What do you mean by "all over the place", "jumbled thoughts", and "sort your thoughts out"?
At this point, it is difficult to comment on the desirability of using a neuroleptic antipsychotic in your case. Perhaps you could provide a few examples of how your thoughts are affected by your illness.
- Scott
Posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 23:55:11
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 20:05:11
EPS is the abbreviation for "extra-pyramidal symptoms"..basically, it involves stuff like pseudo-Parkinson's (shuffling gait, flat affect, etc.), akathisia (inner feeling of anxiety and tension--lots of moving about from side to side), akinesia (flat, mask-like face, very little if any emotional expression) and TD (tardive dyskinesia, an often permanent movement disorder characterized by involuntary movements, usually the face but sometimes also the trunk area. Can be crippling). Put together, all these are termed EPS--when antipsychotics mess with dopamine, they basically induce a pathological state in the brain that can sometimes lead to problems, which can sometimes be permanent (example: tardive dyskinesia, mentioned above, and tardive akathisia, which is like akathisia except it develops late and sticks around, sometimes even after the medication is withdrawn).
When the "atypicals" were introduced, starting with Clozapine, the idea was that they would control schizophrenia with less EPS than the old ones. To some extent, they've been successful. Risperdal, though, is pretty rough--as the atypicals go, its probably the least "atypical" of the bunch...plus, in general, there have been indications lately that the atypicals might not be so "atypical" after all--they can still cause tardive dyskinesia and other sorts of EPS, and they can still cause NMS (neuroleptic malignancy syndrome), a potentially fatal condition caused by antipsychotic drugs that leads to high fever, confusion, muscle rigidity, and often death.
Personally, I think antipsychotics are best avoided, unless you're floridly psychotic. As for your diagnosis...personally, I'd be a bit wary of the "Borderline Personality" diagnosis; 80% of people dx'd as "Borderline" are women, which basically makes "Borderline Personality Disorder" the DSM-IV's modern-day version of "Hysteria" or "Female Nervous Complaints". Its one of the most sexist diagnoses around today, but few people talk about it.
Good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2006, at 0:46:56
In reply to side-effects from APs, posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 23:55:11
NMS? I thought that was just from the maoi's? love phillipa
Posted by krystee on March 26, 2006, at 21:06:27
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 20:05:11
Can you describe in more detail what you experience? What do you mean by "all over the place", "jumbled thoughts", and "sort your thoughts out"?
I mean I think about 20 things at once and cannot seem to focus on the same task long enough to complete it (I start laundry and end up in the kitchen and decide to do dishes and somehow end up clearing off my desk, etc.) By sort them out I just mean pull one thought out of the 20 or focus on one thing instead of doing three things halfway. Any suggestions?
Posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 0:07:42
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 26, 2006, at 21:06:27
That's exactly how I am. I don't do one thing, I do 20 at one time. Same with talking. My thoughts are all over the place. The doctors say my thoughts are racing. I can start on one subject and end up somewhere else and forget where I was going with it all. My moods are the same. I stay depressed and at times feel really bad, then back to depressed, then every once in a while I feel elated and feel like I could accomplish everything I ever wanted to, and then two hours later back to really bad depressed. All of this in one day! Everyday! They said I was Bipolar 2. The doc gave me Seroquel. He said for a mood stablizer and to help stop the racing thoughts so I can sleep. I've read the discription for Borderline and that is me to a T! I have every symptom and always thought I was the only one that felt this way until I read about it on a bipolar website. No doctor will even listen to me if I mention it to tell them how I feel. They say that a lot of diagnosed can be crossed into each other and that's it. The one psychiatrist in the mental health hospital I was in said I only had major depression because my mood swings didn't involve the major manic episodes. Until now, no one thought much about all of the mood swings. They always insisted on me taking antidepressants and nothing else. I never realized that they would make me worse. It's too soon to tell if the cocktail I'm on is going to work. I can just tell you, you're not alone on this one.
Posted by krystee on March 27, 2006, at 0:13:40
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 0:07:42
They always insisted on me taking antidepressants and nothing else. I never realized that they would make me worse. It's too soon to tell if the cocktail I'm on is going to work. I can just tell you, you're not alone on this one.
Antidepressants made you worse? Which ones?
What cocktail are you on now?
Posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 0:42:09
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » CEK, posted by krystee on March 27, 2006, at 0:13:40
I was first on Effexor then on Cymbalta. My depression was still there but I wasn't as emotional and could tough it out better. My rapid cycling got worse though. I never before had the elated feeling, just depression and not super bad down periods unless they were called for. On the antidepressants everything in my life could be perfectly wonderful, no bad things going on, and my emotions would still be all over the place for no reason. Right now I'm on Lamactil 50mg.(starting slowly and it's suppose to help the cycling and depression.) Zoloft for the depression.( was 50mg but doc lowered it because of anxiety) And Seroquel for the cycling and to help sleep. I've been on the Lamactil for 3 weeks now and the other two for 10 days and other than at times feeling dead inside with no feeling at all, I don't feel any better yet. I'm giving it time and have not yet given up but I really don't think these three together I going to "fix" me. Do your moods go up and down or do you just have too much on your mind? For me working 50 hours a week, being a mother of three and a wife along with everything else is very stressful and I feel like my mind is all over the place because it has to be to take care of everything.
Posted by krystee on March 27, 2006, at 1:04:42
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 0:42:09
Do your moods go up and down or do you just have too much on your mind? For me working 50 hours a week, being a mother of three and a wife along with everything else is very stressful and I feel like my mind is all over the place because it has to be to take care of everything.
Well you're right, your mind does have to be all over the place to take care of everything! I am a mother of 2 and a wife and a student, but I don't work. I can't really hold jobs. My moods go up and down, the worst is the sudden hateful rage...haven't found a pill to fix that yet. I am on the ADs right now because I haven't been able to get up and do anything and then when I do get up I am all over the place so I got the APs because of that. I took Zoloft for almost 2 years and I was a hateful, aggressive person on that stuff.
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2006, at 6:58:07
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 26, 2006, at 21:06:27
Actually, that sounds more like hypomania.
- Scott
> Can you describe in more detail what you experience? What do you mean by "all over the place", "jumbled thoughts", and "sort your thoughts out"?
>
> I mean I think about 20 things at once and cannot seem to focus on the same task long enough to complete it (I start laundry and end up in the kitchen and decide to do dishes and somehow end up clearing off my desk, etc.) By sort them out I just mean pull one thought out of the 20 or focus on one thing instead of doing three things halfway. Any suggestions?
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2006, at 7:03:29
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 26, 2006, at 21:06:27
Sorry.
I am not a psychiatrist.
I didn't mean to diagnose you as being bipolar. There may be other circumstances in which one might experience what you described. The "hypomania" comment was really just a knee-jerk reaction to what you described. Please don't consider it a definitive explanation for your behaviors.
I guess it was my objective to determine if there were any psychotic or schizoid features to your illness. I don't see any. Maybe someone else can comment.
- Scott
Posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 9:50:57
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts » krystee, posted by SLS on March 27, 2006, at 7:03:29
You sound so much like me. How are you able to concentrate in school? I couldn't do it on antidepressants. My mind is in a total fog on them. What kind of doctor prescribes your antidepressants? My nurse practioner was the one to first put me on the Effexor. I never took anything until then. Although it took the edge off and I wasn't so irritable, I was still never happy. I no longer enjoyed anything in life that I use to. I didn't even feel love for anybody as bad as that sounds. That on top of wanting to binge on everything in site is what made me want to get off of the Effexor and see if something would actually take away my depression. I also wanted to sleep all the time and had no energy. I had to make myself get out of bed and I thought there had to be something that helped me live my life other than this. For 6 years I just delt with life, not lived it. The AD really made my mood swings worse. I was all over the place! My uncontrollable anger was more controlled but I felt deep hatered inside all the time and wanted to get revenge on everyone that ever hurt me. I have trouble letting go of things. I tote this baggage around all the time making me miserable. When I went on Cymbalta the anger was back in full rage and I was ready to act on it all the time. I had never realized that the mood swings were not normal. It wasn't until I started looking at Mental Health websites that I found out it was a disorder and that there was treatments for it. This was in Feb. when I found this out. I lived like you did all these years dealing with it. My husband doesn't understand it because he doesn't feel this way. The doctors that I have seen lately say they can't believe that no one has never put me on a mood stablizer before. They all now insist that I need one. I don't think my nurse practioner really understood all of it, that's why all she did was give me an AD. The psychiatrist in the mental health hospital that I was admitted into for the suicidal thoughts in Jan didn't even recognize my mood swings as being a disorder since I didn't have "manic" episodes. It wasn't until I got 2nd opinions before I found doctors that thought I needed more help than just an AD. I do wish you luck and hope that you don't just keep dealing with how you feel. I think if I would've sought out better more in depth treatment years ago, I wouldn't be as bad off as I am today.
Posted by krystee on March 27, 2006, at 21:14:48
In reply to Re: AP's for jumbled thoughts Krystee, posted by CEK on March 27, 2006, at 9:50:57
> You sound so much like me. How are you able to concentrate in school?
I suck at concentrating anywhere. I took Lithium for a while to stabilize my moods but it made me a zombie.
Posted by tizza on March 27, 2006, at 22:50:48
In reply to AP's for jumbled thoughts, posted by krystee on March 24, 2006, at 23:56:20
nm
This is the end of the thread.
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