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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on March 25, 2006, at 13:25:39
Hello
I wonder if someone knows wich neurotransmitters are affected when someone
comsumes alcohol?
Is there a med , that acts in the same way?
Benzos?thank you
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 14:31:52
In reply to what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol?, posted by Tepiaca on March 25, 2006, at 13:25:39
>
> Hello
> I wonder if someone knows wich neurotransmitters are affected when someone
> comsumes alcohol?GABA - gamma-aminobutyric acid
I think it works to enhance GABAergic neurotransmission.
This can do two things. Whichever predominates depends on the biology of the person.
1. anxiolytic
2. behaviorable disinhibition
> Is there a med , that acts in the same way?
> Benzos?Very close. Good guess.
Both molecules act to increase GABA activity, but work using different mechanisms.
• Alcohol increases GABA mediated chloride ion conductance• Benzodiazepines increase GABA receptor sensitivity
> thank you
You're welcome.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 19:58:45
In reply to Re: what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol?, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 14:31:52
Tepi who are you living with that has internet access? And no alchohol will not substitute for an antidepressant or for your social phobia. You went back on Nardil and you need to stick with it plus get to a pdoc for a diagnosis which you don't have and that girlfriend in Texas I'm sure will be glad to get you to a hospital there and a pdoc. Love Jan/Phillipa
Posted by MARTY on March 25, 2006, at 21:14:51
In reply to what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol?, posted by Tepiaca on March 25, 2006, at 13:25:39
Hi Tepiaca --From what I`ve read some time ago, Opiate receptors are the most important receptors related to alchool rewarding effects.
Alchoolic are sometime prescribe some Opiate receptor antagonist, like altrexone and Amperozide. Those reduces the effects/pleasure of the person who drink, resulting in reducing significally their alchool craving.
Maybe someone on the forum had tried those and may want to share their experience with us...
Hope you're well,
Marty
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 22:53:02
In reply to Opiate receptors, posted by MARTY on March 25, 2006, at 21:14:51
>
> Hi Tepiaca --
>
> From what I`ve read some time ago, Opiate receptors are the most important receptors related to alchool rewarding effects.
>
> Alchoolic are sometime prescribe some Opiate receptor antagonist, like altrexone and Amperozide. Those reduces the effects/pleasure of the person who drink, resulting in reducing significally their alchool craving.
>
> Maybe someone on the forum had tried those and may want to share their experience with us...
>
> Hope you're well,
> Marty
I don't know via what mechanism alcohol activates the opioid system. Ultimately, it is the increased release of dopamine in the limbic system that produces the experience of reward. I'm not sure scientists are entirely clear on how alcohol works.I found these instructive:
http://opioids.com/abstract/opdopalc.html
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/alcdepop.htm
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 23:16:49
In reply to Re: Opiate receptors - dopamine receptors » MARTY, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 22:53:02
Some of this stuff confuses me. I don't know enough about the opioid system to understand all of the opioid-dopamine interactions depicted in the abstracts I cited.
I wish there were one of those "Dummies" books for understanding the CNS.
- Scott
Posted by MARTY on March 26, 2006, at 4:29:46
In reply to Re: Opiate receptors - dopamine receptors, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 23:16:49
My guess after reading those 2 abstract is that those scientists would not refuse a copy of that 'opioid-dopaime interactions for dummy" ;)
It looks like a very complicated sphere of research even in 2006.For what I understand the abstract propose many hypotesis at multiple level of action.
If I got to retain a simplified and simplistic version ...
1- Induces the release of endogenous opioid peptides. (but how?)
2- Those opioid peptides increasing opioidergic activity via mu-opioid receptors in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) and delta-opioid receptors in the nucleus accumbens (NAcc).
3- Having the effect of inhibe the GABAergic neurotransmission.
4- Which disinhibite some dopaminergic neurons; facilitating dopamine release in the (A, B Mesolimbic, NAcc) regions of the brain.
5- Those specific dopaminergic release reward the ethanol user and (mesolimbic dopamine release) is implicated in the brain learning of the stimuli (appreciation->dependence)
Thanks for the abstract Scott.. very interesting stuff!
Cheers,
Marty
> Some of this stuff confuses me. I don't know enough about the opioid system to understand all of the opioid-dopamine interactions depicted in the abstracts I cited.
>
> I wish there were one of those "Dummies" books for understanding the CNS.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Tepiaca on March 26, 2006, at 21:14:39
In reply to what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol?, posted by Tepiaca on March 25, 2006, at 13:25:39
ey guys , I have felt bad these days. Alchohol
make me feel better, make forget my problems
Makes me able to talk people more easy. In
General help me a lot
What if a drink daily? I have been taking
two beers a day and I felt good after an hour.
This effect last for a couple of hours.
I dont wanna be an alcoholic, but this is the
only thing that help me in this moment
what do you think?
do you think the alcohol is making harder for
the antidepressant to kick in?
Posted by john berk on March 26, 2006, at 22:08:39
In reply to I guess Im gonna drink more, posted by Tepiaca on March 26, 2006, at 21:14:39
I've taken a drug called "campral", [new in the u.s., has been available in europe for quite awhile] it effects gaba and is chemically akin to taurine, an amino acid, it is supposed to calm over stimulated glutamate receptors. i found it really helpful to remain sober, but it became expensive with my other meds, so far, i'm doing well without it, but it is a great deterrent to alcohol consumption. also known as acamprosate, $90.00 for a one month supply...john [btw, no direct interaction with booze, like naltrexone or antabuse.]
Posted by Declan on March 27, 2006, at 1:14:06
In reply to I guess Im gonna drink more, posted by Tepiaca on March 26, 2006, at 21:14:39
Hi Tep
Humans have been controlling their social phobia with alcohol since the beginning of time.
*If you can drink in moderation*, it will be fine.
You only have a couple, hey?
Why the hell not?
Declan
Posted by MARTY on March 27, 2006, at 6:53:33
In reply to Re: I guess Im gonna drink more » Tepiaca, posted by Declan on March 27, 2006, at 1:14:06
Tepiaca,I'd like to know what's your cocktail (I mean pills ;) I've found benzo to give an alchool-like feeling.. Xanax is good for this.. did you try Clonazepam ? it is the best benzo for Social Phobia (I know what I'm speeakin of)
I usually don't recommend Benzos, especially Clonazepam because of the depression it could induce. But it's better than Alchool for sure.
I have tried to self medicate me with alchool and what happen is that it worsen your social phobia to the point where it become unmanageble .. even 10 beers a day will not be able to help you.
Marty
Posted by TylerJ on March 27, 2006, at 14:00:37
In reply to Re: what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol?, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 19:58:45
> Tepi who are you living with that has internet access? And no alchohol will not substitute for an antidepressant or for your social phobia. You went back on Nardil and you need to stick with it plus get to a pdoc for a diagnosis which you don't have and that girlfriend in Texas I'm sure will be glad to get you to a hospital there and a pdoc. Love Jan/Phillipa
Jan's right Tep. I'm living proof of that...20 years ago i drank out of frustration and i became an alcoholic. It was hell to finally quit, I currently have 2 years of sobriety. Remember, alcohol is a depressent, and yes your meds will not work as well if you are using booze. If you start drinking a lot your meds won't work at all. Can you get some Ativan or Xanax? These benzos work similarly to booze, but much better, longer lasting etc. Do you not feel that Nardil is helping at all? What dose are you on? I eventually used Ativan for my anxiety/social phobia and it worked very well for me. Now that Parnate works so well for me I still take a little ativan daily..just because i'm tapering off of it. Also, how long have you been on Nardil? Please let me know the answers to these questions and how you are feeling now. Bottom line...Phillipa is totally correct you need to see a real pdoc, get a real diagnosis, and maybe even be admitted to a hosp. until you are more stable.your friend,
Tyler
Posted by spriggy on March 29, 2006, at 0:08:17
In reply to Re: what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol? » Phillipa, posted by TylerJ on March 27, 2006, at 14:00:37
There have been a few times in the last year that I was in such horrific distress (in an anxiety state) and drank a capful of Nyquil to just calm down and sleep.The funny/nutty part is that since I'm a Christian ( and a pastor's wife), I don't drink alcohol, instead, I drink Nyquil (which is full of alcohol). LOL
I've only done that a few times', now I know that Ativan DOES actually work for me in times like this.
I had a freaky reaction to my first dose of Ativan (I think it was just too high a dose) so I was scared to try it again; I tried it last month and realized it totally takes away my anxiety/panic feelings plus it taste much better than Cherry flavored Nyqui. ROFL
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2006, at 18:47:01
In reply to Re: what neurotransmitters affect Alcohol? » Phillipa, posted by TylerJ on March 27, 2006, at 14:00:37
Spriggy probably GABA the same one benzos target. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tepiaca on March 29, 2006, at 23:41:21
In reply to Re: I guess Im gonna drink more » Tepiaca, posted by Declan on March 27, 2006, at 1:14:06
> Hi Tep
> Humans have been controlling their social phobia with alcohol since the beginning of time.
> *If you can drink in moderation*, it will be fine.
> You only have a couple, hey?
> Why the hell not?
> DeclanHi dec
Do you think that If a drink two a day , in a couple of years Im gonna need 5 or 6 to have the same effect
thanks
tepi
Posted by Tony P on March 30, 2006, at 1:09:36
In reply to Re: I guess Im gonna drink more » Declan, posted by Tepiaca on March 29, 2006, at 23:41:21
> > Hi Tep
> > Humans have been controlling their social phobia with alcohol since the beginning of time.
> > *If you can drink in moderation*, it will be fine.
> > You only have a couple, hey?
> > Why the hell not?
> > Declan
>
> Hi dec
> Do you think that If a drink two a day , in a couple of years Im gonna need 5 or 6 to have the same effect
> thanks
> tepiTwo thoughts:
In a lecture I attended last year on substance abuse, each drug (cocaine, heroin, meth, benzos etc.) affected primarily one system of receptors -- EXCEPT alcohol: alcohol affected ALL of them. This means a) yep, it is really complicated, and presumably the more we learn the more complicated it will get. b) If you have any reason to think you might be an alcoholic, or have a family history of alcoholism, that couple of drinks could be setting you up for cross-tolerance to all sorts of drugs/meds, including legitimate AD's.
Most "normies" can have a drink or two a day quite regularly without needing 5 or 6 a year down the road. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that alcoholism is primarily a genetic predisposition, so besides personal experience family history is very important in deciding if you're at risk. They've actually found a genetic marker for early-onset alcoholism that can be tested for with a specialized hearing test!
None of us posting here need yet another problem, so the crucial issue is (as above) *If you can drink in moderation*. Except of course some meds specifically say "Do not drink alcohol" <sigh>. But after all that, if it works for you, yeah, why the hell not? I am personally convinced that coffee has done more for my depression than anything else I've taken in the last 3 years, and besides it's cheaper and tastes better!
Posted by Declan on April 2, 2006, at 17:16:32
In reply to Re: I guess Im gonna drink more » Declan, posted by Tepiaca on March 29, 2006, at 23:41:21
I dunno Tep. A lot of people manage moderate drinking and a lot don't. I tell myself when I drink too much that I will have to stop drinking completely. That usually does it. If you just permit yourself a couple of drinks a day it should be OK. I feel that alcohol hardly works on me, but I drink less than I did 30 years ago, although that's not saying much. But I think you could be OK. For someone with your level of fear, your drinking seems to have been very careful.
Declan
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