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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tensor on November 7, 2006, at 3:43:48
In reply to Re: Xanax to cope with ..THANKS to all, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:31:00
Yes you will be addicted to it. But if that's your only concern and it's working great for you, i see no problems. Go for it. You shouldn't put so much attention to the addiction thing, it's harder to quit smoking than coming off a benzo. Remember that most AD's requires that you come off them slowly, as with benzos. And i'm also addicted to coffee..
It's gonna be allright.
/Mattias
Posted by bassman on November 7, 2006, at 5:43:47
In reply to Re: Xanax to cope with ..THANKS to all » Pluto, posted by tensor on November 7, 2006, at 3:43:48
Ahhhh!! Not "addicted" - "dependent". Big difference.
But I agree with the "let's fix you now, worry about dependence later" philosophy. The odd things is that many people (myself included) experience NO withdrawal symptoms even after years of benzo use, depending on the benzo.
Posted by madeline on November 7, 2006, at 5:56:03
In reply to In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:00:00
I would take the xanax. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a legally prescribed medication. Especially if it helps you deal with your situation.
Whether or not you will become addicted is tough to say. Some people do, some people don't.
If you see yourself escalating your dose, thinking about your next dose, those are danger signs.
Do not mix xanax with alcohol.
I wish you the best of luck and will be thinking about you.
Keep us posted as to your progress (deployment?).
I will be here rooting for you.
Maddie
Posted by Racer on November 7, 2006, at 10:12:45
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by madeline on November 7, 2006, at 5:56:03
Kinda depends on how you define addiction. If you're talking about physical dependence, then yeah -- you're likely to become physically dependent on it. That's not addiction, though.
Addiction is usually considered to be a cycle of increasing doses and increasing obsession with the substance of choice. It's like the alcoholic with a ritual of drinking, or the heroin addict who ritualizes the process of shooting up. It takes larger and larger amounts to satisfy you, etc.
Good luck with it. Does the fact that Xanax helps with your depression give your doctor any hints about other possibilities for you?
Posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2006, at 11:58:43
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Racer on November 7, 2006, at 10:12:45
Racer PLEASE what kind of hints as that's what happens with me too. Thanks Love Phllipa and take the xanax if it works it has a noted mild antidepressant effect.
Posted by ed_uk on November 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
In reply to In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:00:00
Hi
Do you have a doctor in the middle east who will prescribe Xanax on a long term basis?
Ed
Posted by Squiggles on November 8, 2006, at 9:15:08
In reply to In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:00:00
I just noticed your message Pluto.
By all means, take the Xanax. Under such
conditions, I don't think that you have to
worry about addiction, especially at such
a tiny dose. After 16 months you can ask
your doctor to help you get off it. If anything I would say that perhaps a longer-life benzo might be better, because the Xanax is for abrupt situational anxiety and does not last long.Good luck.
Squiggles
Posted by blueberry on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:22
In reply to In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:00:00
Take the xanax! That's actually a very low dose of one of the most common medications in the world.
The thing is though, we spend months and years trialing and testing all kinds of things to find something that helps. You already have found it. That's quite a blessing.
While on xanax, you and your doctors in the weeks ahead can have time to think about what it means that xanax helps, what might be wrong chemically or genetically that allows xanax to work as well as it does, and to think of possible alternatives if you ever want to go back to the trial game. For just one example, I know someone else whos mood improves a lot with lorazepam, very similar to xanax, and he's been on it for many years and is still at a low dose and the goodness just keeps on.
Posted by blueberry on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:48
In reply to In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 7, 2006, at 3:00:00
Take the xanax! That's actually a very low dose of one of the most common medications in the world.
The thing is though, we spend months and years trialing and testing all kinds of things to find something that helps. You already have found it. That's quite a blessing.
While on xanax, you and your doctors in the weeks ahead can have time to think about what it means that xanax helps, what might be wrong chemically or genetically that allows xanax to work as well as it does, and to think of possible alternatives if you ever want to go back to the trial game. For just one example, I know someone else whos mood improves a lot with lorazepam, very similar to xanax, and he's been on it for many years and is still at a low dose and the goodness just keeps on.
Posted by Pluto on November 9, 2006, at 5:03:12
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out » Pluto, posted by ed_uk on November 7, 2006, at 13:43:28
> Hi
>
> Do you have a doctor in the middle east who will prescribe Xanax on a long term basis?
>
> Ed
Hi Ed,No. Just like in Europe, Xanax is a controlled substance here. Even psychiatrists rarely prescribe them, and if they do it would be ten or twenty days supply maximum.
But I found a source outside to get generic alprazolam regularly. I would say Indian generic is as good as the real stuff.
Cheers
PLS
Posted by Pluto on November 9, 2006, at 5:07:51
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by blueberry on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:22
> Take the xanax! That's actually a very low dose of one of the most common medications in the world.
Hi blueberry,
You mean 1.5mg of Xanax is a VERY low dose? That much is sufficient for me to function. Going with the regimen, I am nearly perfect. But still the obsessive thought about the stuff! Wouldn't it be a high dose? High enough to get me to somewhere where there is no return?
Cheers
PLS
Posted by tensor on November 9, 2006, at 5:48:39
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by blueberry on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:22
>That's actually a very low dose of one of the most common medications in the world.
No, it's actually not, it's a common dose.
Posted by bassman on November 9, 2006, at 6:42:40
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by Pluto on November 9, 2006, at 5:07:51
The only pdoc I ever went to that I thought knew what he was doing looked at me quizzically when I said I want to withdraw from 1 mg Xanax/day. His comment was, "at such a low dose, there's nothing wrong with you taking that for 10 years-more than that. If you were taking 3-5 mg, I'd say ‘wait a minute here’..."
But I do get the "Xanax dependence" fear thing that you are experiencing. Again, I agree with the "it's working, leave it alone" advice you've gotten from several folks. Take care of yourself now and concern yourself if and when that day comes-and it is very unlikely you’ll be so dependent that you’ll have problem withdrawing. In withdrawal trials with Xanax, there wasn’t much difference between those that were able to withdraw from Xanax or placebo. Imagine being dependent (“addicted” is a fun word to use, it’s just incorrect in this usage) to placebo!:>} I wonder what you switch to to withdraw from a placebo? Valium, via Ms. Ashton?
Posted by ed_uk on November 9, 2006, at 14:10:27
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out » ed_uk, posted by Pluto on November 9, 2006, at 5:03:12
Hi Pluto
Is there a risk that you might get into legal trouble by importing or possessing alprazolam? (particularly large quantities). Also, will you be able to get a consistent supply? There's nothing worse than taking a benzo regularly then having to withdraw abruptly because you can't get it anymore.
>1.5mg, low dose
IMO, it's not especially low. Xanax is a very potent benzodiazepine.
Take care
Ed
Posted by Pluto on November 11, 2006, at 22:05:47
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out » Pluto, posted by ed_uk on November 9, 2006, at 14:10:27
Hi Ed,
I had a short visit to New Delhi to find a psychiatrist who will prescribe alprazolam. So, I don't possess the stuff without a prescription. I don't think there ever will be a legal problem in possessing alprazolam for personal use especially with a proper prescription. I have my case history with me to produce in any court which will always justify my use of substances like benzos.
Besides, I have registered in the local psychiatric clinic as an anxious depressive. Though they won't prescribe alprazolam for anxiety or panic, they don't seem to have any problem, if I can obtain it from outside sources.I have months long supply with me now. In case of it running out, it would just take another short visit to the same destination to acquire more. I always keep in touch with my Indian doctor.
Thanks for your concerns. Do you still sense any problem?
Cheers
PLS
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 8:16:42
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out » Pluto, posted by ed_uk on November 9, 2006, at 14:10:27
Sorry your situation is so tough....
My opinion as a long time xanax user and after years of research and practical real-life experience with this benzo is "Do Not Use"...
It does work...but it is as addictive a drug as exists anywhere.
It affects your entire GABBA and nervous system,
you reach tolerance and need more to not go through withdrawl, and once your body has experienced the un-natural relaxing effects of xanax....NOTHING can ever take its place.In my opinion..it is downright criminal for MD's to continue prescribing this drug, now that they have had at least 2 decades to study its short AND long term effects.
I wish I had never taken that first .25mg pill.
It is now 10 years later, and I have recently cut from 6MG's per day to 4.....and my case is NOT unususal ...it is the norm.
Please do everything you can to avoid this highly addictive drug.BF
Posted by bassman on November 13, 2006, at 9:03:12
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 8:16:42
Here's another opinion...I think Xanax is a wonderful med and AD's don't work for me without it. I do think you have to say, "this is the dose I take" and not go up because you have a couple anxious days. Also, after a short period of time, you won't feel it "kick in"...don't increase the dose anyway. I never felt I built up a tolerance, even after years of use. I am currently taking Xanax and decided to decrease the dose a few days ago...no withdrawal except waking up a little early for a few days. I can't take more than about 2 mg a day consistently or it sort of becomes a different drug for me. Just my personal experience...
bassman
Posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 14:28:07
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by bassman on November 9, 2006, at 6:42:40
> ..........The only pdoc I ever went to that I thought In withdrawal trials with Xanax, there wasn’t much difference between those that were able to withdraw from Xanax or placebo. Imagine being dependent (“addicted” is a fun word to use, it’s just incorrect in this usage) to placebo!:>} I wonder what you switch to to withdraw from a placebo? Valium, via Ms. Ashton?
>Bassman,
I appreciate your opinion and how different your experience with xanax has been than mine.
I do not recall ever coming across reliable studies that showed xanax withdrawl and placebo withdrawl were even remotely similiar...let alone the same.
"Xanax is harder to kick than herion" is the experience and statement of most all long-term users and Studies to date.
As Dr Ashton points out.....[i]"withdrawl symptoms can lay dormant for days or weeks before becoming apparent...and virtually every cold-turkey cessation of long-term benzo use results in sever withdrawl symptoms, and the likelyhood of prtrated withdrawl symptoms. [/i]
[B] http://www.benzo.org.uk/ [/B]
My friendly advice......the only good xanax dose is a "0" dose
Just my personal experience
BF
Posted by bassman on November 13, 2006, at 16:28:44
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 14:28:07
This comes from the package insert for Xanax:
In a controlled clinical trial in which 63 patients were randomized to XANAX and where
withdrawal symptoms were specifically sought, the following were identified as symptoms of
withdrawal: heightened sensory perception, impaired concentration, dysosmia, clouded
sensorium, paresthesias, muscle cramps, muscle twitch, diarrhea, blurred vision, appetite
decrease, and weight loss. Other symptoms, such as anxiety and insomnia, were frequently
seen during discontinuation, but it could not be determined if they were due to return of
illness, rebound, or withdrawal.
In two controlled trials of 6 to 8 weeks duration where the ability of patients to discontinue medication was measured, 71%-93% of patients treated with XANAX tapered completely off therapy compared to 89%-96% of placebo-treated patients. In a controlled postmarketing
discontinuation study of panic disorder patients, the duration of treatment (3 months compared to 6 months) had no effect on the ability of patients to taper to zero dose.I remembered wrong.
I can see where you're coming from if you really believe Dr. Ashton. She is very anti-benzo, period, and I think that's that's unfortunate. If you want to see some real withdrawal horror stories, go to the Withdrawal Board on this site..and the horror stories aren't benzos, they're Effexor.
Thanks for the kind input.
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2006, at 19:22:46
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 8:16:42
Funny it just started making me tired so I switched to valium which I take at night. Xanax wasn't hard for me to stop. But I only took around 2-3mg a day of it. And of course the valium longlasting took it's place. But even in the beginning it never made me feel high. Guess I was lucky. Love Phillipa
Posted by Pluto on November 13, 2006, at 22:43:35
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out, posted by BUCKEYE FANATIC on November 13, 2006, at 8:16:42
> Sorry your situation is so tough....
>
> My opinion as a long time xanax user and after years of research and practical real-life experience with this benzo is "Do Not Use"...Hi
Thanks for the advise. But I am no new to this drug or other benzos. I have used Klonopin (2mg) in the past for years and withdrawn successfully without any problem. I mean virtually nothing. During this period, I never had to increase the dose, but interestingly I could cut down it to half most of the time. I stopped taking it because it was worsening my depression. And once again interestingly, depressive thoughts came back once I got rid off this stuff. That led me to Xanax.
> you reach tolerance and need more to not go through withdrawl, and once your body has experienced the un-natural relaxing effects of xanax....NOTHING can ever take its place.
This is controversial. Once again I have to reiterate, I don't take Xanax for anxiolysis. For anxiety, I take Solian (amisulpride) and I know what it means withdrawal syndrome if I miss a dose. I tried to quit amisulpride, but horrible anxiety which didn't even respond to benzos led me back to the same drug. But for Xanax, I always skip doses without problems. No rebound anxiety, but an overall sadness (or call it depression) is the only feeling that reminds me I haven't taken my Xanax. This does give me a clear insight, if there is an effective antidepressant which will work for me, I would rarely take Xanax.
Xanax is a wonderful drug for me of its antidepressant effects. Unlike valium or klonopin it doesn't make me depressed, but an elation plus feeling of freshness is the hangover effect of this drug. I would suspend your urge to criminalize docs prescribing this wonderful stuff.
Cheers
PLS
Posted by Pluto on November 14, 2006, at 0:20:15
In reply to Re: In Middle East: Xanax is the only way out » BUCKEYE FANATIC, posted by Pluto on November 13, 2006, at 22:43:35
Hi
Here is what I take now:
Prozac 40 mg at night
Solian (amisulpride) 50mg in the morning
Xanax 1mg in the morning, half a tablet at night.
Ambien 10mg PRNOut of these four, I found it very hard to stop Solian which is working in a unique way. It calms and activates me at the same time. I have been on it for years, but I don't know when and how to stop it. Tried many times but even a cut in dosage turns me in an axiety state.
If I could up the Xanax dosage, chances are there to come off solian. But upping Xanax to 3mg daily is really scarring me especially after reading conflicting reports on its addictive nature.Any Comments?
Cheers
PLS
Posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 10:58:53
In reply to To Come off Solian...Upping Xanax to 3mg per day, posted by Pluto on November 14, 2006, at 0:20:15
> Hi
>
> Here is what I take now:
>
> Prozac 40 mg at night
> Solian (amisulpride) 50mg in the morning
> Xanax 1mg in the morning, half a tablet at night.
> Ambien 10mg PRN
>
> Out of these four, I found it very hard to stop Solian which is working in a unique way. It calms and activates me at the same time. I have been on it for years, but I don't know when and how to stop it. Tried many times but even a cut in dosage turns me in an axiety state.
> If I could up the Xanax dosage, chances are there to come off solian. But upping Xanax to 3mg daily is really scarring me especially after reading conflicting reports on its addictive nature.
>
> Any Comments?
>
> Cheers
> PLSHi Pluto,
I decided to respond to your post because I have long term experience with amisulpride and benzos, although my benzo of choice was Klonopin. I am confused why you wish to withdraw from Solian and replace it with Xanax as benzos are much more controversial and problematic in many ways. That's not a criticism, just my own viewpoint based on years of experience with these drugs.
If you have an open minded pdoc this may not be a problem for you, but if you ever have to change pdocs for some reason you could run into trouble if you are unfortunate enough to be forced to work with a pdoc that takes an anti-benzo stance as happened to me. My last pdoc forced me to withdraw from 4mg Klonopin abruptly and has since discharged me and I can no longer get access to my beloved amisulpride as ordinary GPs are not allowed to prescribe it here in the UK.
I've tried nearly all the benzos on the market (and a few that are not approved) over a period of five years Pluto, and I found they are all addictive in varying degrees, although I tried to deny this to myself many times. There is very little doubt about the addictive nature of benzos now though I personally think people who get good results from them should not let their addictive nature deter them if nothing else works.
Having been through benzo addiction and withdrawal many times I empathise with the perspective of all of the people posting on this topic and wish you all success in your search for well-being.
Pluto, if Solian is working well for you my advice would be to stick with it and avoid any potential problems that benzos may cause.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 19:21:09
In reply to Re: To Come off Solian...Upping Xanax to 3mg per day, posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 10:58:53
I have to agree with you as I've moved and am traveling around 4 hours each way to see my old pdoc as they are benzophobic around here. Here it's an atypical antipsychotic. I've tried one big practice and was not accepted Monday at another closer pdocs and I'm sure benzos played in the picture. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 22:07:04
In reply to Re: To Come off Solian...Upping Xanax to 3mg per day » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2006, at 19:21:09
> I have to agree with you as I've moved and am traveling around 4 hours each way to see my old pdoc as they are benzophobic around here. Here it's an atypical antipsychotic. I've tried one big practice and was not accepted Monday at another closer pdocs and I'm sure benzos played in the picture. Love Phillipa
You have my sympathy Phillipa. I think you may be right about benzos playing a part in the pdocs refusal to treat you. My last pdoc was a recent graduate and med school had taught him bizarrely that benzos have no real effect on anxiety. He seemed to assume people who are addicted to or who are seeking benzos must simply be trying to get high. I think this may have been an even bigger issue with me because I started quite young (19) and it's rare to find anyone younger than middle age on benzos around here, that and the fact that so many young people are seeking pharms as a way to get high or alter the effects of street drugs probably makes him suspicious.
I just hope you find a level headed pdoc that allows you to continue with benzos and nobody forces you to quit cold turkey, or quit at all for that matter if you are doing well and want to continue with them.
Amisulpride is licensed as an atypical antipsychotic here in the UK, but the guidelines state that treatment must be initiated by a specialist, with GPs then monitoring treatment and issuing repeat prescriptions over the long term. My GP recently prescribed Parnate herself on the basis that a pdoc prescribed it to me in the past, so I'm sure she could also prescribe Solian on these grounds but I think she just enjoys being putting me down and treating me like dirt since she got my pdoc's discharge letter.
Have you tried pregabalin (Lyrica) Phillipa / Pluto? I've heard that pregabalin often causes a euphoric reaction at certain doses, so I presume this may help you feel better Pluto. I wonder if other GABAergic supplements like picamilon or phenibut would be an effective alternative to Xanax for Pluto? I presume they carry no legal restrictions? You say you are using benzos for their mood brightening effects Pluto, so I am curious if a herb called Rhodiola that I am finding very effective as an anxiolytic mood brightener may also work for you since we both find amisulpride effective for anxiety and benzos brighten out mood? Here is a detailed report about its mode of action and uses for anyone open minded or curious: http://www.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/articleview.asp?a=2333. It seems to increase sensitivity to existing levels of neurotransmitters and thyroid hormone to exert its mood brightening, stimulating and anxiolytic effects, which I find interesting as my thyroid levels are low but my GP refuses to do anything about it and I'm feeling similar effects to when I last took Synthroid.
Hope someone finds something useful in all that text. As usual I'm writing too much. Take care everyone.
Q
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