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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bulldog2 on November 28, 2009, at 19:14:54
In reply to Re: help--how can I be feeling this bad? » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 18:53:58
> > You sound like me. Any anxiety? My depression has an element of fear with it. There is help out there. Hang in there. Sometimes you may feel like you can't take it any more but you will come out of this.
>
> Yes to the anxiety, but it feels different. It presents as fear--and it's just about unbearable. And yes, I made myself take a walk, and am feeling some relief. It comes in waves--old stuff I thought I'd dropped. Thinking of switching benzo's out--I don't know. Thanks for the encouragement. Fear is a terrible sensation--I'm sorry you are feeling similarly. It s*cks.
>
> Luvox--I'll google it. And so what do you think your big guns will be?
>
> I think withdrawing the percocet exacerbates your present state--not that you should stay on it--just my perspective.
>
> You have so many situational stressors. :-(
>
> hang in there, and I will, too.
>
> fb
>
>My fear comes at night when I turn out the lights. I get up and start walking around. If I turn on the TV I feel a bit better.By morning the fear is less and a dark kind of depression comes on. Generally my neurontin high dose brings me out and brightens my mood. Today I had to take an extra dose and my mood brightened a bit by late afternoon.
I have luvox,lexapro, and parnate in my med cabinet.I think at this point I will need an ad to take the place of my percocet.
The rocket fuel has a good rep. I've taken each med individually. Remeron made me sleepy and very hungry. Effexor has a fast effect but I couldn't sleep well on it and felt tired during the day.
I can sleep well on luvox but feel tired during the day so one might need a stimulant on it.Good Luck!
Posted by bulldog2 on November 28, 2009, at 19:18:12
In reply to Re: help--how can I be feeling this bad? » floatingbridge, posted by ricker on November 28, 2009, at 19:04:16
> HI fb, sorry you are not doing well :(
> I did not post previously on the effexor/remeron combo, but thanks for the well wishes.
> As for taking zyprexa prn, not a problem as my p/doc advises me to take zydis 5mg when needed. Lately, that's been everyday around supper time! I've also been taking clonazepam for the last 20 years everyday so that's one option you could consider? Sounds like you have to find that right combination A/D & mood stabiliser. Have you tried zoloft? It works well for ptsd along with depression/anxiety. I hope your next p/doc appointment brings a positive outcome.
> Take care,
> Rick
>
>What does zyprexa feel like. What kind of mood does it create. Did you gain weight on it?
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2009, at 19:36:51
In reply to help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 15:54:27
Hi FB.
I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time. Hang in there.
Zyprexa makes a great emergency drug. You might consider taking it regularly for a short period of time rather than using it as a PRN. If it helps substantially, you could then consider switching to Abilify as a regular part of your regime until you find an antidepressant treatment that works well. There are ongoing blinded trials looking at Abilify in combination with antidepressants for use in PTSD. Open label studies show efficacy.
- Scott
Posted by Zyprexa on November 28, 2009, at 19:52:58
In reply to help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 15:54:27
I have PTSD. I've been taking zyprexa for the last 11 years and its not a problem since.
Posted by ricker on November 28, 2009, at 20:41:01
In reply to Re: help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by bulldog2 on November 28, 2009, at 19:18:12
> What does zyprexa feel like. What kind of mood does it create. Did you gain weight on it?
I get very anxious when stating any new med! My p/doc gave me a sample pack of zyprexa zydis 5mg and I took one that night. Within 30-40 minutes I felt this sense of calm, peace and tranquility that I have not felt in 20 years!!! I gently drifted off to sleep and woke the next morning with a positive outlook. As I continued to take it on a nightly basis, the serene feeling dissipated somewhat. It is however, a drug that I will never not have in my medicine cabinet! It is the best crisis med IMO and works extremely fast for both, depression and anxiety.
Yes, I have gained weight with it, although I believe the same can be said for most of the atypicals? It may not be the best for maintenance although I would bet many people take it on a regular basis.
Rick
Posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 21:05:23
In reply to help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 15:54:27
Wow. Great information--thank you everyone!
O.K. So I'll discuss zyprexa on Monday--he had offered it once before (in combo w/prozac--symbax?) and I balked.
Abilify at a low dose, maybe, though I had some thumb twitching. Maybe that rules it out?
I'm thinking of Paxil instead of pristiq. I did have some time and presence of mind to search today, and that seems to come up as a ptsd treatment.
Zyprexa, thanks for sharing--were you able to continue and progress in therapy on Zyprexa? I am so glad you've had continuing relief.
thanks babble,
fb
Posted by morganator on November 28, 2009, at 22:43:41
In reply to thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 21:05:23
My personal feelings-not crazy about Zyprexa. I would recommend it's use for a month or two, but beyond that it comes with too much baggage to use long term, unless you absolutely need it.
Neuroleptics scare me. There is some that believe, based on research, that neuroleptics may cause brain shrinkage. I understand that this may be more a result of the disease that the person being treated is suffering from. Then again, there is a study done on monkeys that showed brain shrinkage after neuroleptic exposer, and, I think it was Zyprexa that was used.
If you really need it and don't have other options, definitely take it until you find your way out of the darkness and transition to other meds that help.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 29, 2009, at 1:33:42
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by morganator on November 28, 2009, at 22:43:41
Hi Morganator,
I appreciate your concern--thanks for your post. I'm not happy with AP's (is that the same as a neuroleptics?); however, I can't go to that place again where I was this week. If I can take on an as-need basis, fine. Even a short term. I haven't had success with the two I've tried. But I gotta keep going. Benzo's don't really seem to address the issue and my dosage is going up again.
Soon, hopefully, I can get to the mood clinic. Ha! They might recommend the same thing--who knows? Wish me luck, and thanks again,
fb
> My personal feelings-not crazy about Zyprexa. I would recommend it's use for a month or two, but beyond that it comes with too much baggage to use long term, unless you absolutely need it.
>
> Neuroleptics scare me. There is some that believe, based on research, that neuroleptics may cause brain shrinkage. I understand that this may be more a result of the disease that the person being treated is suffering from. Then again, there is a study done on monkeys that showed brain shrinkage after neuroleptic exposer, and, I think it was Zyprexa that was used.
>
> If you really need it and don't have other options, definitely take it until you find your way out of the darkness and transition to other meds that help.
>
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&ved=0CA4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclinpsyc.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fbig-drugs-small-brains.html&ei=h_sRS-K0Gc2_lAfo27icBA&usg=AFQjCNGpTSS6Fj1MGXr9TTFDp3C2R6b8aQ&sig2=KA4ZwIi1UubOy3YmFhNf-A
Posted by morganator on November 29, 2009, at 2:26:04
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » morganator, posted by floatingbridge on November 29, 2009, at 1:33:42
Good Luck!
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2009, at 7:11:31
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by morganator on November 28, 2009, at 22:43:41
I'm not sure that sharing an anti-psychiatry blog is the way to go. However, I do appreciate the citation they offer to the macaque study.
The only research on Medline that I could find that reports reduced brain tissue in lab animals treated with antipsychotics has been performed by the same research team from the University of Pittsburgh. Their published papers on this issue first appeared in 2005. I am surprised that no follow-up studies have been conducted by others to replicate the results. Maybe there just isn't enough interest. Of course, this, too, is scary. In general, I find the work of the research team to be sophisticated and respectable. However, it would be nice to see it replicated should they be wrong.
I did find an interesting study that reported a normalization of myelination in subjects with schizophrenia when atypical, but not typical, antipsychotics are used. This indicates an increase in white matter volume.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19616412?
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on November 29, 2009, at 12:32:28
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by SLS on November 29, 2009, at 7:11:31
> I'm not sure that sharing an anti-psychiatry blog is the way to go. However, I do appreciate the citation they offer to the macaque study.
>Hi Scott, I was in such a state last night, I didn't notice the context....And Morganator, I still appreciate the concern, esp. because you know my position on therapy (for myself).
>
> I did find an interesting study that reported a normalization of myelination in subjects with schizophrenia when atypical, but not typical, antipsychotics are used. This indicates an increase in white matter volume.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19616412?
>
>
> - ScottThanks for this citation.
Personally, I'd rather 'therapy before drugs' as someone commented on the anti-psych site; however, I cannot end up in the hospital again, nor will I allow myself to suffer unnecessarily.
Meds allow me to do therapy and take care of my family. I know we've all been there and made these decisions.
Thanks again babble,
fb
Posted by SLS on November 29, 2009, at 13:24:45
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on November 29, 2009, at 12:32:28
I wish there were a "clean" answer. I'm sure you are working very hard in psychotherapy. I have to think that there is an answer for you that does not require an AP. However, you are in a bad place right now, and if you are below the threshold of functionality, you may opt to go with an AP temporarily. You may want to try it as a PRN first if you are uncomfortable using it chronically. I guess it depends upon the balance between psychosocial stress and biogenic dysregulation that you are being subject to. What I mean by that is if most of your discomfort revolves around the ebb and flow of external or psychological stressors, PRN might be the way to go. If your perceived depression and anxiety are constant and do not vary in accordance to stressos, you might be looking at a need to treat your condition more steadily.
What is your current treatment regime?
- Scott
Posted by southernsky on November 29, 2009, at 14:27:06
In reply to help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 15:54:27
Hi Floatingbridge,
I once had an experience with therapy where i had a catharsis of repressed emotions..and felt like I was going to lose my mind. it was very scary. Xanax helped me through that.I didn't feel like taking something long term, because this was not a long term problem.
it was temporary. My instablity went awaay within a couple of weeks. Maybe you need to slow down a bit with therapy? It can get pretty intense. Intense can be good, but you can overdo it-especially if you have a lot of repressed emotions, and/or are working with going through past trauma for the first time.
I think it would be wise to be careful, maybe slow down a bit. Focus on getting some comforting from your T for a few sessions.. When do you see your T next?
Posted by morganator on November 29, 2009, at 14:49:24
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by SLS on November 29, 2009, at 7:11:31
>However, I do appreciate the citation they offer to the macaque study.
Yeah that's pretty much why I thought that link was of some value. I understand that an anti-psychiatry blog would be very biased.
Posted by maxime on November 29, 2009, at 19:46:16
In reply to thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 21:05:23
I think that zyprexa is the way to go. Good decision! :)
Posted by floatingbridge on November 30, 2009, at 23:07:45
In reply to Re: help--how can I be feeling this bad?, posted by southernsky on November 29, 2009, at 14:27:06
Hi Southern Sky,
Very good advice--thank you. I saw my pdoc today, and we slowed it down, and will continue to do so. I am also feeling better, but not as good as before--pretty spooked. However, I did get through the day w/ extra xanax ir. Yes, the trauma came out for the first time, and I think we were both shell-shocked. I walked twice, I think I can practice some mindfulness tomorrow, so some of the old tools are (hopefully) beginning to work again. I brought up short term or as needed zyprexia, but he didn't jump on that. He mentioned seroquel (small dose--but I had a terrible reaction in the past).
Slow is good. I agree. I'd like a different med in my toolbox for emergencies....I don't know. I see him again Friday.
I'm sorry you've had some scary times, too.
Thanks, SouthernSky. I see you have babblemail now!
fb
> Hi Floatingbridge,
>
> I once had an experience with therapy where i had a catharsis of repressed emotions..and felt like I was going to lose my mind. it was very scary. Xanax helped me through that.I didn't feel like taking something long term, because this was not a long term problem.
>
> it was temporary. My instablity went awaay within a couple of weeks. Maybe you need to slow down a bit with therapy? It can get pretty intense. Intense can be good, but you can overdo it-especially if you have a lot of repressed emotions, and/or are working with going through past trauma for the first time.
>
> I think it would be wise to be careful, maybe slow down a bit. Focus on getting some comforting from your T for a few sessions.. When do you see your T next?
Posted by floatingbridge on November 30, 2009, at 23:20:28
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on November 29, 2009, at 13:24:45
Hi Scott,
I think your answer jibs w/ my pdoc's. Most stressors seem to be of a psychological nature, though dysregulation is a big affect. He didn't seem too keen on adding an AP. I feel he is still considering ways to go.
I am beginning to recover today--and functioned with additional xanax ir. The fright is diminishing. I will discuss an AP on a PRN basis on Friday.
And I think we going to pace therapy a bit differently.
I guess we'll have to see--I have just never faced such a rapid disintegration before. I feel I may need another med in my toolbox beside emergency xanax. Maybe.
Current regime:
pristiq 50
strattera 80
xanax er 2-3
Dexedrine spansules 45-60Thanks, Scott for your concern and clear-sightedness,
hugs,
fb
> I wish there were a "clean" answer. I'm sure you are working very hard in psychotherapy. I have to think that there is an answer for you that does not require an AP. However, you are in a bad place right now, and if you are below the threshold of functionality, you may opt to go with an AP temporarily. You may want to try it as a PRN first if you are uncomfortable using it chronically. I guess it depends upon the balance between psychosocial stress and biogenic dysregulation that you are being subject to. What I mean by that is if most of your discomfort revolves around the ebb and flow of external or psychological stressors, PRN might be the way to go. If your perceived depression and anxiety are constant and do not vary in accordance to stressos, you might be looking at a need to treat your condition more steadily.
>
> What is your current treatment regime?
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by floatingbridge on November 30, 2009, at 23:22:16
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by maxime on November 29, 2009, at 19:46:16
Posted by ihatedrugs on December 1, 2009, at 21:53:25
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on November 30, 2009, at 23:20:28
I remember going through a similar situation over 10 years ago and what helped me was Remeron and Xanax. I eventually discontinued Remeron because of the insidious weight gain.
Best of luck.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 2, 2009, at 0:19:35
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by ihatedrugs on December 1, 2009, at 21:53:25
Thanks Ihateddrugs--it's good to hear from you. Are you up to nine now? Doing alright?
best
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on December 2, 2009, at 0:23:37
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by ihatedrugs on December 1, 2009, at 21:53:25
> I remember going through a similar situation over 10 years ago and what helped me was Remeron and Xanax. I eventually discontinued Remeron because of the insidious weight gain.
> Best of luck.May I ask how much xanax and how much remeron and for how long? did it take a while to go back down on the benzo? (I worry about that.)
best to you,
fb
Posted by ihatedrugs on December 2, 2009, at 18:31:30
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » ihatedrugs, posted by floatingbridge on December 2, 2009, at 0:23:37
> > I remember going through a similar situation over 10 years ago and what helped me was Remeron and Xanax. I eventually discontinued Remeron because of the insidious weight gain.
> > Best of luck.
>
> May I ask how much xanax and how much remeron and for how long? did it take a while to go back down on the benzo? (I worry about that.)
>
> best to you,
>
> fbI forgot the dose of Remeron but may have started at 15 and gone up to 30 if that sounds like a proper dose.I took it for a year and it really worked on depression and anxiety, not to mention how wonderful it was for sleep. But the weight gain was crazy although my mom took it and didn't gain weight on it... Go figure.
Xanax I only used it as needed so for about a month it was pretty much every day. Then I began to taper off and went completely off it without any problems. I now, for about two years, have been taking klonopin for sleep.
I'm on 9mg on the patch and so far so good-not perfect-but well worth it.Good luck
Posted by floatingbridge on December 2, 2009, at 18:47:40
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by ihatedrugs on December 2, 2009, at 18:31:30
Posted by Zyprexa on December 4, 2009, at 3:56:23
In reply to thankyouthankyouthankyou! » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on November 28, 2009, at 21:05:23
I don't go to therapy. It does not work for me. I do better just talking to people I know.
Posted by floatingbridge on December 4, 2009, at 21:38:45
In reply to Re: thankyouthankyouthankyou!, posted by Zyprexa on December 4, 2009, at 3:56:23
> I don't go to therapy. It does not work for me. I do better just talking to people I know.
Sounds like you have good support--friends are the key to life (imho). (I'm still working on it.)
fb
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