Posted by Scott L. Schofield on March 19, 2000, at 14:03:16
In reply to Re: Mazindol (Mazinor) for depression? Anyone?, posted by saint james on March 19, 2000, at 0:05:00
Hi James.
I wanted to point out a few differences between the stimulants you mentioned and both amineptine and mazindol.Do you have any experience with Cylert (pemoline)?
> > Mazindol (Mazinor) is drug that is a potent reuptake inhibitor of both norepinephrine (NE) and dopamine (DA). Its primary indication is for the management of obesity. Infrequently, it has been used to treat depression.> > Has anyone ever tried mazindol for depression?
> I am weary of all weight loss meds. They seem to be too potent in their reuptake. Redux and another non-amphetamine wieght loss med have been shown to cause the same changes that MDMA causes. Too much of a good thing.Mazindol (Mazinor) is a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE), as are the amphetamines and Ritalin (methylphenidate). Unlike the amphetamines and Ritalin, mazindol does not promote the release of DA. In this respect, mazindol is more like the antidepressant, amineptine. Amineptine is also an inhibitor of both NE and DA, and is considered particularly effective in treating anergic depressions. Unfortunately, it has been taken off the market worldwide.
> In terms of weight loss, we know diet pills don't work. I've been on Dexadrine for years, one quickly gets used to the supression of appetite and if you continue to up the dose you will soon be called a speed freak. IF you suppress the appeitite you get rebound at nite and eat everything in the house. The higher the dose the more you eat. You cannot avoid this as you cannot stay on diet pills 24/7 and still be sane. On my normal dose of dex I have a normal appitite.In addition to its initial effect to suppress appetite, mazindol also increases the basal metabolism rate (BMR) to promote thermogenesis. This is accomplished through the activation of brown adipose tissue (BAT) to burn off extra fat. You burn more energy, even while you sit on your butt watching re-runs of the Honeymooners. In addition, mazindol seems to increase (improve) the sensitivity of insulin receptors. The result is a decrease in the release of insulin and a reduction in the amount of glucose withdrawn from the blood stream to be stored as fat. Patients on a reduced-calorie diet who take mazindol lose more weight than those who maintain the same diet but do not take mazindol. Any loss of appetite suppression does not prevent the efficacy of mazindol treatment. Some of the studies I have seen show it to remain moderately effective long-term. Although tolerance to appetite suppression does occur, it seems to persist to some degree in about 50% of cases.
> The problem with all stims is that at some point they will deplete your body of neurotransmitters(NT's).While AD's hold or delay the deactivation of NT's, stims make more NT's available and at some point the well runs dry.I'm not sure that the well runs dry so much as the postsynaptic neuron just gets sick and tired of listening to the presynaptic neuron cry "wolf!". (postsynaptic receptor downregulation - desensitization).
Dexedrine, Adderal, and Ritalin have all been shown to cause dopamine depletion in the striatum, but not in the limbic system (at least, not that I could find). The striatum is responsible for locomotion, while the limbic system is involved in mood, energy, motivation, libido, and memory. If the experimental data is valid, the psychostimulants would not cause DA depletion in those dopaminergic pathways of the brain thought to be involved in depression. Mazindol does not seem to cause dopamine depletion anywhere. That it lacks the DA-releasing properties of the other stimulants may account for this.
> To me the safest route is to go with the stims that have been out the longest, i.e. amphetamine (Dexadrine, Adderal, ect) Amphetamine has been with us since the 1920's. Taken at correct doses it is a very safe med, no flipper kids, ect. Very effective AD for some people. Amphetamine and AD's potentiate each other, often meaning you can take less of each. Try lower doses than used in ADD; start with 5 mgs/day in a slow release formulation like Dexadrine Spansule or Adderal; Dex being the cheaper. I feel it is best to start with stims + an AD; in myself if I take dex alone I do fine for a while but then get depressed.I am not too crazy about Adderal. Adderal is a preparation of dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine in combination. Methamphetamine (and MDMA) not only cause dopamine depletion, but also damage DA neurons via neurotoxic oxidative free-radicals. In addition, methamphetamine and MDMA promote the release of serotonin (5-HT), and produce serotonin depletion. Both have also been implicated in the neurotoxic damaging of 5-HT neurons. But it feels so good.
Does anyone have a lifetime supply of amineptine that they would like to donate to a worthy cause?
Thanks.
- Scott
poster:Scott L. Schofield
thread:27486
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000312/msgs/27577.html