Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 17:09:01
In reply to Re: tremors, lithium, mechanisms » danf, posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
> Dear DanF,
>
> On behalf of the folks here, I just want to thank you for your relevant and knowledgable input. I don't know if you had been a participant on Psycho-Babble before I arrived here (10/99), but I value your presence now.
>
>
> > kerry, You a burden.. never !
> >
> > now for tremors !
>
> How very exciting!
>
> > tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
>
> In Re: Tremor stuff
>
> In the past, some doctors would rely upon hand tremors as a clinical indicator of therapeutic dosages of lithium. They would adjust the dosage to the minimum that would produce them, the tremors being barely noticeable.
>
> Question: In what ways are Zyprexa-induced tremors different from lithium-induced tremors? How are they produced? Along with the fine hand tremors, I noticed a cog-wheel effect when I lifted weights while taking lithium.
>
>
> In Re: Heuristic stuff
>
> Much of what lithium does to exert its therapeutic effects are not understood. It does so many things. You've got me curious to review some of the mechanisms by which it affects membrane potentials and electrolyte pumps. Perhaps I should save my energy and let you review them for me. :-) (half-serious). One of the things that has been studied is the effects lithium has on postsynaptic second-messenger systems, particularly protein kinase-C (PKC). I believe there is some speculation that this ultimately results in changes in gene expression. It also inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta (GSK-3 beta), which leads to the production of both neurotrophic and neuroprotective substances (MAP1B-P and bcl-2 respectively). Lithium also directly inhibits membrane receptor G-protein activity, which might help to explain its immediate antimanic effects. I think I remember an NIH doctor tell me that lithium also changes the expression of G-proteins through c-FOS mediated gene transcription, but my memory is vague on this.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> Found this on Medline:
>
>
> 13: Aust N Z J Psychiatry 1999 Dec;33 Suppl:S65-83
>
> Signalling pathways in the brain: cellular transduction of mood stabilisation in
> the treatment of manic-depressive illness.
>
> Manji HK, McNamara R, Chen G, Lenox RH
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit,
> Michigan 48201, USA. hmanji@med.wayne.edu
>
> The long-term treatment of manic-depressive illness (MDI) likely involves the
> strategic regulation of signalling pathways and gene expression in critical
> neuronal circuits. Accumulated evidence has identified signalling pathways, in
> particular the family of protein kinase C (PKC) isozymes, as targets for the
> long-term action of lithium. Chronic lithium administration produces a reduction
> in the expression of PKC alpha and epsilon, as well as a major PKC substrate,
> MARCKS, which has been implicated in long-term neuroplastic events in the
> developing and adult brain. More recently, studies have demonstrated robust
> effects of lithium on another kinase system, GSK-3beta, and on
> neuroprotective/neurotrophic proteins in the brain. Given the key roles of these
> signalling cascades in the amplification and integration of signals in the
> central nervous system, these findings have clear implications not only for
> research into the neurobiology of MDI, but also for the future development of
> novel and innovative treatment strategies.
>
> Publication Types:
> Review
> Review, tutorial
>
> PMID: 10622182, UI: 20085894
Hi all!!!
Gosh some of those words you used I can't even find in the dictionary!!! I shall stick to the simple stuff as that is all I can handle at the moment!!
Remembering back to when I started on lithium, I did have the shakes a bit (I'm on 1,000mg per day) but I just put it down to nerves and anxiety, so all along it was the lithium?
Nobody, meaning doctors or team workers, ever explains what side affects I will experience so I have to diagnose myself half the time or read the leaflet in the box but the lithium came with nothing, just a white bottle that stares me in the face morning and night!!!
This zyprexa seems to be doing it's job. Still having terrible trouble with my memory (maybe I have developed Alzheimers and I don't know it) and still having trouble with EPS, though not so sure if it is that. Every night at about 8pm, I start getting irritable inside myself so I start doing the ironing or anything else I can find to do, it's really annoying. It's like I have to release the feeling or otherwise I'll explode. Don't know if this is a side effect from lithium/zyprexa or just my frame of mind, but I am starting to feel better and getting on top of things.
I think it was you Scott, that told me about SANE Australia. I looked into it. It is a site where you can put to them a question and they E-mail you back and they more of less tell you to go and see you doctor. But thanks anyway, I gave it a try.
Hope everyone is well, best go now and do the "Cafe ala Kerry" breakfast round.......aaaagggghhhh!!!!!!!!
poster:kerry B
thread:39399
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000708/msgs/39827.html