Posted by OldSchool on January 1, 2002, at 20:05:21
In reply to Re:ECT over AP's? » OldSchool, posted by Chloe on January 1, 2002, at 19:20:51
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> Old School,
> You seem to be a real advocate for ECT. Have you ever had any treatments? Do you have any first hand knowlegde of this or seen any patients truly respond to ECT in the LONG TERM?I have never had ECT myself. However I am seriously considering it and have had it recommended to me multiple times. I oftentimes wish I had just gone and "gotten shocked" back in the beginning of my severe depression. I wonder sometimes had I done this early on in my illness, maybe I would have fully recovered early on and wouldnt be a chronic mental patient today.
ECT's primary side effect is memory loss. My depression, which is very severe (about as severe as it can get actually) has totally destroyed my memory and pretty much all cognition. Ive improved some with heavy medication and exercise, but have never achieved anything remotely close to what could be considered full remission.
Severe depression destroys cognition all by itself, no ECT involved. So I am of the opinion that ECT, while it causes short term memory loss, it also has the highest rates of FULL REMISSION of depression of any treatment known in psychiatry. If you achieve FULL REMISSION of your mood disorder, your cognition is going to fully return, which includes your memory.
I dont have to worry about movement disorders with ECT like I do if I take anti-psychotics. I dont have to worry about screwing up my blood pressure with ECT like if I take MAOIs. With ECT the worst thing about it is the social stigma and the memory loss.
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> ECT, though it has come a long way since it's inception, is still a "risky" treatment.Oh really? Are you sure about that? Its that "risky?" Thats not what Ive been reading about it. Taking anti-psychotic drugs for a mood disorder for long periods in my opinion is quite "risky." Certainly at least as risky as ECT.
> Many people have had several rounds of ECT and had no benefit and had a major loss of memory and ability to think and process information.
I have heard of very few individuals who had ECT and it didnt blast them out of severe depression. Its efficacy for severe mood disorders is unsurpassed.
> I think you offer this treatment as some kind of miracle cure for distorted thinging and mood disorders.
Well, honestly, ECT is just about a "miracle cure" for mood disorders with psychotic features.
>When there is no assurance that it's going to help, and just may cause PERMANENT impairment cognitively (versus physically-TD and EPS).Movement disorders are quite serious. Certainly more serious than some memory loss, IMO.
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> I also must add, that ECT is expensive and may even require hospitalization for the duration...Not to mention the social stigma...And I don't know that this is a long term solution. The instigation of some maintaince medication will inevitably be needed post ECT, hence the side effect problem again.Yes, ECT is expensive. However most insurance plans will cover it. ECT has become known as the "rich man's way out of severe depression." Unlike thirty or forty years ago when ECT was frequently done at many state mental institutions and forced on unwilling patients, now its mostly done only at the better quality teaching hospitals in private settings. Again its become known as the depression treatment for the affluent. Many celebrities and rock stars have had ECT, when they came out of recreational drug induced psychotic depressions and manic episodes.
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> I have read much about ECT being a good LAST RESORT therapy for people who are stuck in a deep resistant depression, or who are flagrantly psychotic, ie. completely in their own world and out of touch with reality. BUT for the average patient, who may have distorted thinking as part of a bipolar 2, rapid cycling and paraniod tendencies, I am not sure a series of zaps to the brain is worth the gamble.Um...in my opinion when you resort to taking seroquel for a mood disorder, you are pretty bad off. Just my personal opinion. Thats pretty serious.
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> Do you know of any bipolar patients who have benefited from ECT? I am not aware of it being used for this with any success. Depression, yes, but not for bipolar, cycling, rage and paranoia. Could you point me to studies if you know of any.ECT is used for all mood disorders. Unipolar major depression, manic depression, psychotic depression, medication resistant depression, refractory schizophrenia. It even has off label uses for parkinsons and drug induced movement disorders.
ECT has anti-psychotic and anti-parkinsons effects all at the same time...wild huh?
Here are some good links to credible websites that discuss ECT for mood disorders:
http://www.mhsource.com/pt/p010621.html
This article is from the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology and is really good...covers everything about ECT. This article about ECT mentions that 80% of those experiencing full mania achieved full remission after ECT!
http://www.acnp.org/G4/GN401000108/Default.htm
And this article discusses ECT treatment of bipolar mania specifically:
http://www.electroshock.org/archives/BMJ_Editorial_Bipolar_Treatment.htm
Remember one of the things that ECT does is it pushes up the seizure threshhold, thus it creates a strong anticonvulsant action. Anti-convulsants are some of the primary drugs used to treat bipolar disorder. ECT is indeed as effective for bipolar disorder as it is for severe depression.
Old School
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> Thanks
> Chloe
poster:OldSchool
thread:87920
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011222/msgs/88484.html