Posted by Ron Hill on February 28, 2003, at 13:17:48
In reply to Re: Long-term Experience using Enada NADH » Ron Hill, posted by hok on February 28, 2003, at 12:24:21
HK,
Thanks for the detailed post. If Enada NADH poops out on me, I may do a trial of sublingual Selegiline. I've bookmarked your post in my Selegiline e-folder for future reference. Please keep us advised of your progress with this medication.
-- Ron
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> Ron,
>
> I just wanted to update you on my experience thus far with the substitution of the NADH for sublingual selegiline. It's only been 4 days since I started it but I feel pretty great. I've been hesistant of posting my results thus far, since I don't like to cry wolf early on. But since we seem to be fairly similar in our symptomology, I thought I'd let you know how it's going. In terms of the anhedonia, the selegiline has been much more effective. I also am much more social and have a lot more energy throughout the day. Only problems thus far have been some insomnia issues - but no daytime sleepiness (like I experienced with the NADH). My other fear before starting the selegiline was that it would cause too much of an increase in anxiety. This has not been the case though so far. I do feel a little wired at times, but I think this is a matter of playing with the dosages and adapting to its effects. Right now, I think that 80% of its effectiveness is coming from the drug and about 20% is coming from the added AD effect from mild sleep deprivation.
>
> I've been taking 10-12 mg of sublingual deprenyl drops per day (in 2 divided doses). And I've been augmenting with either 200-400 mg of tyrosine or 200-300mg of DLPA. So far, I prefer the tyrosine as an augmentor instead of the DLPA since it's a little smoother and makes me less wired. There might be a point where I discontinue the augmentation all together.
>
> I originally tried the oral tablets a couple years and remember hating it. I think this was due to the effect of the metabolites though. Now I think I know why -- I just read a study that showed that the metabolites can be a major cause of anxiety/depression, and that a low dose of oral selegiline alone actually decreases serotonergic function and causes a much less smooth administation [upanddown effect] of the dopaminergic/PEA transmission. I haven't experienced this problem at all with the liquid form (probably because the metabolites remain much less lower than the oral form).
>
> From what everybody's said, the MAO-B inhibition itself [at the 10-15mg range]-- without the start of MAO-A inhibition -- wouldn't be enough to be have an antidepressant effect. Seemingly only a small majority has found this to be a viable augmentor. In terms of augmentation, I can definitely say this works though. I am on a low dose of celexa as well. Without the SSRI, the selegiline just might be useless, but together, they're fairly effective.
>
> As for the differences between the oral tablets vs the sublingual form -- I definitely believe the sublingual form is superior, for the aforementioned reasons. However, there are some drawbacks. Price is the biggest. From the source I ordered it from, the tablets are a third cheaper than the liquid form ($.14 vs $.23 per mg). Secondly, I'm not convinced that the drops are being fully absorbed under my tongue. I wait about four minutes for absorption to occur and then I swallow any remaining liquid in my mouth to insure full potency. Thirdly, I don't know how long the liquid form stays in the bloodstream. Perhaps it might be less than the oral form, I don't know. But I can say I do feel the effects all day long.
>
> In the end, I think the patch will be a huge improvement -- but the sublingual version is halfway there.
>
> Just thought I'd let you know how it's going. I'll report back in a few days as the drug starts to take its full effects.
>
> HK
>
>
poster:Ron Hill
thread:202372
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030224/msgs/204706.html