Posted by samplemethod on July 26, 2003, at 5:40:36
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover, Re: Pfeiffer » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on July 25, 2003, at 13:27:48
Lar doesn't niacinamide get converted to niacin eventually so then this thing you say about them having opposite effects is a bit of i dunno.
If I have small amounts of niacin I dont get the flush. But If i have a large amount I do.
I know ron hill takes niacin with his NADH TMG combo, whereas you take niacinamide with your NADH TMG combo. You both say the niacin or niacinamide in question reduces your irritability.
I am unsure about it all...got any hard facts about the opposite effects of niacinamide and niacin? I personally believe I have had bad effects from 500mg niacinamide... I guess you could say it benzos me out.. and I dont like that feeling. I am trying to get to the bottom of it.Cheers
> >> Your own list doesn't mention B3. Niacinamide is anti-histaminic. So is NADH.
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>Lar, Pfeiffer told me NO niacin and folic acid supplementation, as they say that niacin and folic acid both help build histamine. (If niacin were a 'no-no', wouldn't niacinamide also be a 'no-no', for histamine-building reasons also?)
>
> Niacinamide blocks histamine release. NADH is used to destroy histamine in the brain.
>
> Niacin causes histamine release. That's what "niacin flush" is all about.
>
> > I always read about how you're supposed to take a B-complex formula that gives you a balance of ALL the B-vitamins...yet for 7+ months now I have been taking B-6 & B-12 WITHOUT the other B's (this is per Pfeiffer's treatment plan)......they say NO niacin (due to reason above)....but what about B-1, B-2 and others? I've read about some of these other B-vitamins helping some people for depression....but I'm wondering if my B-vitamins are getting out of whack, since I'm only taking a certain few (at large doses too)? I'd really like to take BOTH niacinamide AND folic acid but I can hear it now---if my histamine level numbers don't get better then Pfeiffer will simply have a nice excuse, i.e. "Well, we told you NO niacin and folic acid and you didn't listen....blah, blah, blah". Well, I DID listen and took EVERYTHING that they told me too and my histamine went from 129 to 186!!!
>
> Then, it's not working, is it? I cannot conceive of a reason why a B-complex formulation would cause you any harm, notwhithstanding all of Pfeiffer's advice.
>
> >Then they say, "Well, it's a different season". They are supposed to be tweaking/modifying my plan soon....the nurse did mention that they could increase the TMG (and I think the methionine too)....I'll find out what their recommendations are fairly soon....but I've lost a lot of my enthusiasm towards them....maybe I was expecting Pfeiffer to really help me a lot....I was hoping that their alternative methods would really pan out....gotta be something better than just popping these damn psych pills.....they said that high histamine blocks serotonin production and that by lowering my histamine my body would be able to produce more serotonin.....well, maybe if I ever CAN get my histamine level lowered then I'll find out IF lowering my histamine will make a difference!
>
> Let me interject.....theories don't prove anything. Whether histamine has anything to do with serotonin and depression is not known. Nor is it known why nutrients may help ease the symptoms of depression. The only thing we know is that nutrients do ease the symptoms of depression in some people. Not why. Just that they may help.
>
> > It's hard to tell if lowering my histamine level really would help since it's going the WRONG way! They said 129 sucked, well it's 186 now! (I'd love to know just HOW high/bad this 186 number is but I can't find info. on the net talking about specific numbers (lots of stuff on histamine levels but nothing, i.e. charts,graphs, etc., that tells you anything about specific numbers and what those numbers mean....all I know is that 129 was high and that 186 is higher....gee, that means a lot).....so I guess it's impossible for me to say if I'd be feeling better with a good, lower number when the number keeps heading the wrong way!
>
> Are you feeling better? That's the only thing that matters, IMHO.
>
> > If you're feeling lethargic, I'd also suggest that you try upping the dose of TMG. It can perk you up. As can DLPA.
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> (As I mentioned above, they mentioned possibly raising my TMG dose...might that help w/ depression Lar, or is that more for lethargy?
>
> TMG will enhance your natural formation of SAMe, via methionine. Why it gives a feeling of energy is not something I understand. I consider TMG to be antidepressant, but that's just my opinion.
>
> > You mention meds. What meds are you taking? They may be the source of the lethargy. Anything's possible.
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>Lar, I've been taking SSRI meds for about 11 years.....they caused temper/anger in me.....I am now on Remeron 45 mg at night and 300 mg lithium/day...that's it....the meds that have always worked great for me (depression/ocd) have been Nardil and the SSRI's (though with side effects, of course)....would be nice to have a natural supplementation plan that could do what those meds do in my body.....I'd like to be able to affect serotonin with supp's the way meds do....yeah, I know, the 'serotonin police' on this board will love that remark, lol, but whatever those SSRI's & Nardil does is what works for me (WHAT DO they DO that helps ocd/dep????? IS there an answer???).....Remeron doesn't affect serotonin as much....it also doesn't help me as much, lol, but at least I don't have the side effects of the SSRI's....
>
> I'm just suggesting that your meds may be part of the problem, despite your focus on the nutrients. Lithium totally messed with my energy, focus, and ambition. Remeron messed me up in a lot of ways, too.
>
> > The supps you've been taking may not have had the positive mood effect you've been seeking, but I'm convinced they've been good for your general health, notwithstanding.
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Lar! I just thought of something.....can I try SJWort now that I'm no longer on an ssri??? Or does Remeron still make taking SJW a 'no-no'? (Actually, the natural supp's MAY exist to help me BUT the good ones are always NOT ALLOWED to be taken w/ anti-dep's! Hard to tell if natural supps would work when the best ones are always OFF LIMITS!) Take care Lar! Your advice RULES!
>
> My advice is free, but that may be all it's worth.
>
> I don't know of a reason why you couldn't take SJW with Remeron, as you can safely combine Remeron with tricyclics and SSRIs.
>
> Lar
poster:samplemethod
thread:241945
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030723/msgs/245447.html