Posted by SLS on October 6, 2015, at 9:35:32
In reply to Re: Shooters and Psychiatry » SLS, posted by hello321 on October 5, 2015, at 23:28:33
> > 1. Bartholomew was born without any genes that would predispose him to mental illness.
> >
> > 2. Bartholomew had a childhood predominated by physical and emotional abuse, neglect, and exposure to domestic violence.
> >
> > 3. Bartholomew grew up feeling inferior because his family didn't have as much money as his peers did. He was teased and bullied. He swore that he would one day have money.
> >
> > 4. Now out of high school, Bartholomew continued to feel poor and inferior. He couldn't find a job. College was out of the question.
> >
> > 5. Bartholomew's mother noticed that her son's behavior had become erratic and that he was often quiet and uncommunicative. He was ruminating in his anger and indignation. She thinks that his quietness is depression, and convinces him to go to the family doctor. She would accompany him.
> >
> > 6. The doctor of internal medicine hears the word "depression". This is enough to convinces the doctor to prescribe Lexapro.
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> > 7. After six months, nothing changes.
> >
> > 8. 18 years previously, a law abiding citizen bought a hand gun legally.
> >
> > 9. This law abiding citizen had his house robbed while he was out at the cinema watching a mediocre remake of "King Kong". The gun was stolen along with a box of Fruit Loops.
> >
> > 10. The gun eventually found its way into Bartholomew's hands. He now felt empowered. He could use it to get the money and respect that he never had growing up. Society owed it to him.
> >
> > 11. Bartholomew was still angry. He decided to rob a convenience store. On impulse and filled with anxiety, he burst through the door and ran up to the counter waving his gun around and screaming for everyone to get down on the floor. He just happened to notice a box of Fruit Loops on the shelf. He was not distracted, though.
> >
> > 12. Bartholomew demands that the clerk give him all the money in the cash register. When the clerk raised his hands in the air to show Bartholomew that he was unarmed, Bartholomew panicked and shot him. Several patrons got up off the floor and began to run for the door. Bartholomew shot them all.
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> > 13. Realizing what he had done, Bartholomew felt trapped. He would surely be executed - or worse. There was no way out except by suicide. Suicide was not an unfamiliar thought. He used the gun one more time.
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> > 14. The coroner determined that Bartholomew's body contained Lexapro and Fruit Loops.
> >
> > 15. Upon investigation, Bartholomew's mother and doctor corroborated this finding and described that Bartholomew was taking Lexapro for depression.
> >
> > 16. In the media and on official public records, Bartholomew was taking an antidepressant for a mental illness and committed mass murder.
> >
> > 17. Bartholomew was not mentally ill.
> >
> > 18. Strange, though. Bartholomew didn't even like Fruit Loops.
> >
> >
>
> Scott, I find this confusing.It really isn't so confusing if you take the story at face value. In this scenario, Bartholomew does not have a predisposition to mental illness as a reaction to psychosocial stress #1. He is, what scientists call, "resilient".
> There is no precise way to diagnose major depressive disorder.
They can get pretty close. What is your point? Bartholomew is not depressed. Nature has determined this. #1
> But it is mentioned in psychiatric literature and occasionally talked about on this board that chronic stress can result in one developing Major Depressive Disorder.
I talk about this a lot. It is not news.
> That looks to be what Bartholomew experienced.
Exactly. That's what it looks like, that's why a doctor prescribed for him the antidepressant, Lexapro. #5; #6 However, he is not depressed. #1 He is angry, ruminative, and withdrawn. #5
> Chronicle negative circumstances led to him developing lasting symptoms of what is recognized as clinical depression
No. Bartholemew is not depressed. #1
My question to you is: If you line up 100 people who are exposed to the same psychosocial stresses, how many will get depressed? The remainder will be resilient. Depression seems to be a product of an interaction between nature and nurture. What is the percentage of people who will get depressed from the environment Bartholomew found himself? Do you know? I don't. However, my guess is that fewer people will suffer a persistent psychobiologically driven case of MDD or BD depression than will remain resilient.
> True, many different situations can cause a person to rob and murder someone.
Yes.
> Am I missing something?
Yes. Please see above.
> True, this guy had what are described as symptoms of depression that look to have been induced by life circumstances.
What symptoms?
> But even when one perceives a situation like this as nearly hopeless. And they develop lasting feelings of worthlessness and become withdrawn, this doesn't have to happen. With the right brain function, one is more capable of being positive through experiences like his. They become less bothered by things in life and are just more able to see life from a better perspective. Because of this, they are more likely to make better decisions.
We are in agreement here.
> This is what can happen if a certain antidepressant we works well for someone.
For Bartholomew, antidepressants did not change his situation because he is not depressed. #7 What should have happened is that the family doctor should have made a follow up appointment during the first few weeks, and then monthly for awhile. After 6 months, the doctor should have sent Bartholomew to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist would assess his psyche along with screening for major mental illness. A good psyshiatrist would have seen the need for psychotherapy. Psychotherapy would have had a more positive effect than antidepressants.
> I've experienced this myself. Cyproheptadine (not exactly an antidepressant) brought me from not being able to leave my house because of severe feelings of inferiority and anxiety, to being able to go anywhere, anytime I wanted without putting a second thought into it. I also would notice what I thought of severe flaws in my appearance that made me feel terribly self-conscious. Cyproheptadine made those flaws unnoticeable to me. It became like they never existed. And basically I felt like my world became bigger and I became able to see the bigger picture thanks to cyproheptadine. I became less irritable and more positive about every aspect of life. Relationships became better as well. I could go on and on about how amazing this med was for me.
I'll have to keep cyproheptadine in mind. Does it sedate you? How many times a day to you need to take it? How long did it take to work? I will be EXTREMELY pissed at myself if cyprohelptadine worked. On my last visit with Baron Shopsin, MD in 1986, he told me to try cyproheptadine. It was a weird idea, and I didn't follow up on it.
Did you try any of the following? How did you respond to them?
amitriptyine or nortriptyline
Remeron
atypical antipsychoticsLike cyproheptadine, these drugs all have the property of serotonin 5-HT2a antagonism.
- ScottSome see things as they are and ask why.
I dream of things that never were and ask why not.- George Bernard Shaw
poster:SLS
thread:1083163
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20150929/msgs/1083264.html