Posted by bleauberry on March 22, 2018, at 7:48:35
In reply to Re: Best meds for 'I don't care anymore' sydrome » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 13, 2018, at 15:49:32
>
> So, it is your suggestion to Maurorless that he or she discontinue all current medications and take only Ritalin?NO!!! I never said that. It is, or should be, a universal understanding with all patients that you talk to your doctor about changing meds or doses.
>You are certain enough of this such that you can guarantee Maurorless that doing so will not result in a deterioration and worsening of depression?
NO!!! I never said that either. I can't promise any more than the you or a psychiatrist can. I am, however, quite certain that Ritalin is a widely prescribed medication for a reason - it helps more people with more symptoms than just about any other meds out there - mood, energy, motivation, focus, enjoyment of hobbies.
>I find your posture of surety troubling.
My posture got me well and got other people well, when the doctors were not performing well. I don't see how that should be troubling to anybody.>I would also point out that you often contradict yourself - even within the same post. "Nothing else needed" does not mean continuing to experiment with additional substances. I am also troubled by your continued supposition that whatever works for you will work for everyone else, and that one recipe fits all.
SLS I am troubled by patients being poorly mismanaged by their doctors. There are patients who have been guinnea pigs for 10 years, 20 years,30 years, who are not much improved today than they were long ago. THAT is troublesome. I help people out of that dungeon. I give them a 'posture' and a 'perspective' that is new to them. Because the posture they currently have, is failing, is old, is outdated, and failing for a long time. imo
> Would that be all antidepressants or just some in particular? Emotional numbness and a lack of desire to do things can be the manifestations of a vegetative state or deficit syndrome; things that antidepressants and combination treatments can address effectively. I suggest that people do NOT stay far away from antidepressants when trying to address anergia, anhedonia, loss of interest, amotivation, or flat affect. To stay away from something means to deny it from consideration. Again, I would caution against providing a one-size-fits-all recipe for treatment, or suggesting things in a manner that imply having certainty in the understanding of psychobiology and predicting treatment outcomes. I, myself, have no such certainty despite my researching biological psychiatry since 1983. Of course, I might not be smart enough. Actually, I am certain that I am not smart enough. With each new scientific finding that is announced, 10 or more theories are disproved while 10 or more new theories emerge.The problem is that personal bias causes some people to pick and choose which new things they embrace or trash. For example, that lyme complications are profoundly tied to psychiatry is a fairly new discovery by LLMDs - last 10 years or so - and despite so many profound success stories, such as mine, some patients will choose to ignore it simply because it doesn't jive with their own world view.
Tricyclics and SSRIs routinely cause anhedonia and blunting where those symptoms did not previously exist. It is a primary complaint of most psych patients. Emotional numbness is NOT a symptom most patients complain about when they enter treatment - but it is a common one when they are in treatment. And it doesn't matter which antidepressant it is. The two exceptions may be Nardil and Parnate. Sometimes people don't get blunting. That is not frequent.
>
> I am both saddened and amused that some people still think that SSRIs work to treat depression by blunting emotions. While apathy and amotivation can emerge as side effects, this is not a universal occurrence.Close. Maybe not universal. But close. It is one of the primary complaints and topics of discussion at this board going back decades. Patients don't have those complaints until after they are on meds. The fact that DA and NE receptor sites soak up excess serotonin from SSRIs might have something to do with it. But even just pure NE can blunt too. I have experienced that. I am not sure what the science is to explain that one. I have a hypothesis though. That is, that when there are excess neurotransmitters via the reuptake blocking mechanism, maybe with some people their feedback loops are not working properly, so the firing of new neurotransmitters slows way way down - the synapses just sit in a stagnant pool without much firing or activity happening - remission happens when the firing resumes with the increased pool - but often that doesn't develop. In a pool of neurotransmitters via stopping reuptake, synapses experience very little firing or activity, and thus blunting. Hypothesis.
>
> I will follow the progress of the people who take your advice. I expect to see some people respond favorably to some of the herbs, vitamins, and supplements you suggest. I am curious to see which herbal preparations display medicinal properties.There won't be any people here openly following my advice so tracking that is not going to work very well. If you are truly curious of medicinal properties of herbs then you would do yourself a monumental favor by reading the book Healing Lyme by Stephen Buhner. Much of the book is in medical/scientific jargon with pages and pages of references and clinical studies on each and every herb discussed. That book - before you go ridicule it - is THE book that ended my 20 years of treatment resistant depression. It is on the bookshelf of both of my doctors. Any patient truly wanting to get better would read it. 9 out of 10 patients entering my doctor's office are also significantly improved in rapid time with their psychiatric symptoms that have been poorly managed by other doctors for years - in their own words, not mine.
Another great book - more medical/prescription instead of herbal, is called Why Can't I Get Better, Horowitz.
>There are several that interest me. I also expect to see some treatment failures. I guess the question becomes, what treatment paths have the best chances for success when confronting severe mood and anxiety disorders.
It's a different game. You don't take a pill and wait 6 weeks. You take a variety of pills that address microbial insults, systemic inflammation, brain inflammation, hormonal rejuvenation and balance, and toxin removal. None of them are specific for psychiatry. Those things combined, sort of like an orchestra, provide real potential for significant gains in quality of life, most especially in the realm of psychiatry, despite they aren't considered psychiatric herbs, compared to failed meds. Again, my two doctor's own words, not mine. My journey definitely confirms, however.
I just wish people would understand that what is wrong in their head is most likely coming from the body not the head.
And I wish they would understand that psychiatry can be amazingly helpful for short term or acute situations, but should maybe generally be toned down for longterm or chronic situations, which could likely produce better results through a totally different approach.
imo = in my opinion = something I always say = nothing is definite
poster:bleauberry
thread:1097273
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20180212/msgs/1097557.html